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Old 09-21-2008, 11:15 PM   #61
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I'm not angry because my needs are met -- thank God. I work out of my home and if I get laid off, I'll bridge to retirement and draw pension. All is not rosey though:
1. My 401K dropped 10% in 9 months. I moved everything to the sidelines for a while. I may go back in -- just a little -- when things settle down.
2. My first home (now a rental) per Zillow (I know, I know) dropped in value at 8.4%. Thankfully, the Boulder, Colorado housing market tends to be relatively stable. The rent yields a 500/month cash flow. I'm keeping the rent low to keep my good tenants.
3. The value of my current house (purchased 1 year ago) dropped 8.1%.
4. The foreclosure next door was purchased for a song and that will hit our home values. Thank God it is occupied though and there are not very many foreclosures in our subdivision.
5. My credit union checking (money market) isn't yielding much but it still there.

FIRE is not looking to good since I didn't anticipate this down-turn. I'll definitely continue working until 55 (another year) or until they offer me a package to leave. That package should compensate for this year's losses.

It is sad to see how it is affecting everyone else though. I volunteer at a women's shelter and hear a lot of stories. Many people are being wiped out by emergency health care costs.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:29 AM   #62
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I think the middle-class with 401ks, IRAs, etc are angry.

There are so many americans that are in debt with no investments... that their only concern is their job.

They are angry about the economy. However, many cannot connect the dots to the financial crisis. But they get one loud and clear message.

The pig have been taking advantage and getting rich... Here I am worried about keeping my job and home.

We will be able to measure the anger in the election in about 6 weeks.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:18 AM   #63
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I am not just angry - for the first time in my investing life I am truly scared. I have done all of the analysis to ensure my investments will perform during my retirement but none of those calculations figured in this kind of massive tampering by the government. This time it is different! No one knows what the results might be.

There will be a lot of money being made in this bailout but it won't be the average American. The corruption in this program will make the Katrina thing look lily white.
In the mean time the average saver and investor may be looking at a long period of no returns - this money has to come from somewhere.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:16 AM   #64
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Now the arsonists who initially started the fire are masquerading as firefighters pretending to help extinguish the now raging inferno.

Banks Rush to Shape Rescue Plan - WSJ.com

"The nations financial and political leaders are working around the clock to repair the shattered markets and no one, from the White House on down, has spent more than a few minutes explaining to the American people why they're being asked to assume hundreds of billions of dollars in liabilities."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:41 AM   #65
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shock doctrine
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:55 AM   #66
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I can't figure out what I'm more mad about, that greedy CEOs fleeced everyone or that the Fed has become the new "Paycheck Advance Loan" bank.........
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:05 AM   #67
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quick summary, Obama, Clinton and other democrats took money from Fannie and Freddie and defeated a proposed bill that would have saved them. McCain was one of the co-sponsors of this bill that would have put some regulatory controls on Fannie

Bloomberg.com: News#
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:37 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
quick summary, Obama, Clinton and other democrats took money from Fannie and Freddie and defeated a proposed bill that would have saved them. McCain was one of the co-sponsors of this bill that would have put some regulatory controls on Fannie
And McCain also has not less than FIFTY-NINE (59) lobbyists on staff including Aquiles Suarez, listed as an economic adviser to the McCain campaign in a July 2007 McCain press release, was formerly the director of government and industry relations for Fannie Mae. The Senate Lobbying Database says Suarez oversaw the lending giant's $47,510,000 lobbying campaign from 2003 to 2006.

I guess the way to regulate Fannie/Freddie is to hire their people.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:40 AM   #69
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And McCain also has not less than FIFTY-NINE (59) lobbyists on staff including Aquiles Suarez, listed as an economic adviser to the McCain campaign in a July 2007 McCain press release, was formerly the director of government and industry relations for Fannie Mae. The Senate Lobbying Database says Suarez oversaw the lending giant's $47,510,000 lobbying campaign from 2003 to 2006.

I guess the way to regulate Fannie/Freddie is to hire their people.
How many lobbyists on staff does Obama have? Just wanting clarification.........
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:43 AM   #70
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How many lobbyists on staff does Obama have? Just wanting clarification.........
Last count from this AM - ZERO (0). That is why the Obama line was so funny:
Quote:
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he's president that he'll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys network in Washington.'
Now I'm not making this up. This is somebody who's been in Congress for twenty-six years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign.
And now he tells us that he's the one who's gonna' to take on the old boys network. The old boys network? In the McCain campaign that's called a staff meeting. Come, on!

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Old 09-22-2008, 10:49 AM   #71
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Obama co-chair a state lobbyist - First Read - msnbc.com

did he get fired?

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/...007-12-20.html
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:56 AM   #72
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Good post.
The Roman Emperors gave out free bread and held gladiatorial games.
Maybe people think laughing at Stephen Colbert and making jokes about Bush is showing their intelligence and a valid way to participate.
Excellent post Dex... I think this is by and large correct. The govt has worked so hard at making our lives... "easier", that I think the reaction of most people is just "well I do not understand any of this, but I am sure the govt will fix it all."
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:56 AM   #73
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I think it's one part - they don't really understand what's going on
and one part - the majority of Americans are complicit in the greedy debt orgy that's been going on, and it's a little hard to be righteously outraged when you've been part of the problem. Rampant greed, envy, and the resultant debt-driven consumerism is one leg of the underpinnings of this whole fiasco. Another leg, of course, is the creation of the exotic derivatives, etc. on Wall St, and the huge leveraging.

Everybody from the borrowers to the realtors, to the mortgage brokers, to the lenders to Wall Street, to the yield-hungry investors, is guilty in this.

Mass greed driven delusion.

And although I don't take them off the hook, I also think that if our government (congress, executive branch, both) had reached out and taken away the punch bowl the public would have been up in arms, accusing them of "ruining the economy." Therefore I don't know if there were any congressmen sounding the alarm on this other than Ron Paul. And look at how he's regarded. Just a nut who didn't understand the "modern economy" and wanted to ruin the party.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:22 PM   #74
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I'm not angry because I don't know how the numbers apply to me personally. I see the phase "gov. bailout is going to cause taxpayers xxx" but I don't understand what it really means. I'm guessing it means they'll cut funding for xyz and use that for bailout, so if they can break it down to something like, they'll cut your mom's social security by $500/month, your future medicare by $xxx and your kids' whatever by $xxxxxxx and use those $ to $ave the bastards, then I'll be angry.

If it means just printing more IOU's, then I'll probably just shrug my shoulders.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:36 PM   #75
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Every greedy little fist on wall street is reaching for the bailout pie. There's no shame left.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/bu...html?th&emc=th
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:06 PM   #76
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There's no shame left.
No doubt about that.
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:31 PM   #77
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As I said on a previous thread - I'm scared and angry - the grasshoppers are coming for the ants.....I've only been able to read a little bit of what is happening, but what I find distressing is the sense I get that the government stepped in too soon----and offered the higher price, so of course that offer was taken---with the collateral of the taxpayer funding the risk. I realize that taxes help fund those things we deem necessary for society (with differing opinions on the line of what should be provided), but, when I already pay close to 50% of my income in various taxes across the societal levels (national, state and local governments), how much more can they take and when do I decide it's not worth it to work so hard to be middle-class to pay that much more in taxes? They guy at I-80 and Gilman panhandling probably has a better cash-flow than I and he isn't paying taxes.......and I haven't even gotten to what may/may not be happening to my investments - that's more immediate, however, the erosion of my ability to even put money into investments gets more immediate...and then the erosion of those investments.....

I will be paying attention at election time.... and frankly have been for many years now. I also make my statement by picking where I live.
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:49 PM   #78
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shock doctrine
Exactly. Just read the first couple of chapters of Klein's book last night.

Pummel us to the ground with "shock and awe" (stock market collapse!!! housing market collapse!!! etc etc etc) and then move in during the ensuing panic to enact a sweeping corporatist power/money grab.

At least congress seem to be delaying the process a bit right now....maybe the shock and awe will dissipate a bit as congress retards the passage of the bill (even as bush prods and pokes..."the whole world is watching.") And the gall of these guys....advising Europe to enact similar legislation. Thank-you, Angela M., for telling them where to get off.

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Old 09-22-2008, 11:54 PM   #79
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the majority of Americans are complicit in the greedy debt orgy that's been going on, and it's a little hard to be righteously outraged when you've been part of the problem.
who is this american majority of which you speak? the only person i know who thought she benefited, but who i wouldn't even characterize as "complicit in the greedy debt orgy", was my now-dead-to-me-cousin who atm'd her house until she had to sell for less even than its construction value, after having lived there for about 15 years already. shameful what equity she wasted, but she paid that price personally without burdening anyone by it. in fact, i've no doubt she made the banks happy & the recent buyer quite happy, having paid zero for the property and nothing for the location and got the building itself at discount.

the only flipper i ever even met was my fly-in, flew-out across the street neighbor who ended up selling distressed. among my friends, i know of no one else who benefited the slightest from this disaster. i can hardly think of any of my associates who hasn't owned their home for at least 5 years. in fact, i can think of just one who bought in 2003 and no one since then. (edit: also one friend who bought retirement home and will pay his mortgage despite the downturned value.) so i don't know the majority of americans, but who i know are sure suffering now with homes worth less than if this bubble never was. never mind that we are threatened with a collapsed economy & somehow we've inherited the burden to fix it. we are they with plenty of cause to anger.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:24 AM   #80
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When you get stuck for hours waiting for gas, you'll start getting angry as the radio keeps blaring about the bailout. Wait until this hits your area. WNC gas supply woes continue with long lines, empty pumps | CITIZEN-TIMES.com | Asheville Citizen-Times
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