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Old 05-11-2013, 03:14 PM   #141
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Reminds me of a Seinfield episode...When they wanted to get rid of George and sealed him out of his office...

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Old 05-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #142
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I don't hate my job. I love what I do. It's watching management care more about themselves than the company that has bothered me for a long while now.

I hate the incompentence and/or narcissism that seems to rise to the level of VP and up-- achievers rarely are promoted to this level. It's either a personality contest or a yes-man or a good ole boys club depending on the organization. And I have worked at small and mega corps. Unfortunately these are the people who control the decisions.

I have wanted to consult for several years, but due to several circumstances never made the jump--not yet anyway. Based on what colleagues have told me, it's not perfect either but you don't care as much about the lousy, self-serving decisions that are made.

Thanks for asking. Venting always makes me feel better.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:28 PM   #143
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I don't hate my job. I love what I do. It's watching management care more about themselves than the company that has bothered me for a long while now.

I hate the incompentence and/or narcissism that seems to rise to the level of VP and up-- achievers rarely are promoted to this level. It's either a personality contest or a yes-man or a good ole boys club depending on the organization. And I have worked at small and mega corps. Unfortunately these are the people who control the decisions.

I have wanted to consult for several years, but due to several circumstances never made the jump--not yet anyway. Based on what colleagues have told me, it's not perfect either but you don't care as much about the lousy, self-serving decisions that are made.

Thanks for asking. Venting always makes me feel better.

My theory on the promotions you describe is 'idiots hire other idiots'
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:40 AM   #144
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My theory on the promotions you describe is 'idiots hire other idiots'
Or how about..."The sociopaths always make it to the top..."
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:09 PM   #145
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Whew! I feel better already! At least my cube's not IN the shitter!
I'm not sure that's the right take on this. It might be better if your cube was in the shitter. Here's why: You would be meeting people you never would have had the chance to meet before. If you worked in the shitter, you could just wheel over on your chair and start up a conversation. Many people feel odd sitting in a restaurant alone, so I imagine that holds true for sitting alone in a megacorp bathroom. So, you would be doing a co-worker a favor. Anyhow, it's a chance for you to socialize, maybe share a donut.

And, it might make you feel more alive. I'm guessing while you are in your cube working, you only use two of your senses: sight and touch ("rage" is not a sense). In the shitter, you'd be using at least two additional senses. Using the third additional sense would simply be a matter of taste.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:04 PM   #146
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Sorry if I change anyone's image of cool labs with computers and science projects, but the Pentagon is largely a bunch of rooms with cubicles. My flag level boss gets his own office, albeit with no windows. I'm not a big fan of the work or the environment. Plenty of civilians have been there upwards of 30 years. Nobody seems to "love" their job, but the real problem is that it's pretty good pay for relatively easy work, so folks keep doing what they're doing.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:48 PM   #147
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I never had a cube next to the shitter but for about 5 years I had a cube with a big beam in the corner, blocking a lot of space and resulting in a shorter desktop and no file drawers like all the other similar cubes had (I had a file cabinet outside the cube but it was awkward to reach). It was also next to a long aisle which had a lot of foot traffic. I eventually got switched to another cube which more of a typical one in size and features. Two years later I ERed so no more cubes for me!
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:51 PM   #148
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I'm not sure that's the right take on this. It might be better if your cube was in the shitter. Here's why: You would be meeting people you never would have had the chance to meet before. If you worked in the shitter, you could just wheel over on your chair and start up a conversation. Many people feel odd sitting in a restaurant alone, so I imagine that holds true for sitting alone in a megacorp bathroom. So, you would be doing a co-worker a favor. Anyhow, it's a chance for you to socialize, maybe share a donut.

And, it might make you feel more alive. I'm guessing while you are in your cube working, you only use two of your senses: sight and touch ("rage" is not a sense). In the shitter, you'd be using at least two additional senses. Using the third additional sense would simply be a matter of taste.
"Hey boss, want to split the last urinal mint?"
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:15 AM   #149
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I'm pretty sure that long haul truckers make as much or more than most cops.
It's probably about the same, depending on area and qualifications. Salaries for police work are all over the map from near-poverty to well over six figures, although the latter is unusual.

I pondered going to a truck driving school after I retired, thinking perhaps it would be a neat way to get paid to see the country. But after talking with a few drivers I ditched that idea.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:38 AM   #150
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It's watching management care more about themselves than the company that has bothered me for a long while now.
Due to incentive stock options, bloated salaries and perks, short-term thinking, etc., management IS the company...
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:40 AM   #151
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Cubes are where the people who work for me work. Offices with windows are where people like me work. Corner offices with windows are where my bosses work.

We use offices as incentives. As in, "Hey Mikey, if you can produce 7% more TPS reports this year, we will move you from that cube near the shitter to the cube a little bit less near the shitter".

And then if he meets that goal, we might set another one like "Hey Mikey, if you can reduce errors in your TPS reports by 3% this year, we'll move you from that slightly-less-near-the-shitter cube you got rewarded with last year, to this waaay better (although equidistant from the shitter) cube that gets a faint whiff of natural light from my window laden office".

And then if he meets that goal, we might set another one like "Hey Mikey, if you can properly staple 100% of your TPS reports this year (staples in upper left, oriented no more than 10 degrees off the vertical alignment) we'll move you to a real live office. I mean, let's face it, it is still really close to the shitter, and there are no windows, but on the bright side, we will securely cover the sign on your door reading 'CUSTODIAN CLOSET' with a temporary sign (printed on 8.5x11 paper) with your name on it. You will have your name on an office door."

That's how the office space hierarchy works in some joints. With the caveat that the CEO or some other uppity up can always trump your middle management ways by taking your sweet less-near-the-shitter cubes and putting their own people in them, thereby displacing your own (hard working) people into some ethereal work-place displaced refugee status with not even a stinky cube to call their own.
In my 25 years at megaconglomocorp, I sat in hallways, conference rooms, closets, and cubes, and even had a highwall office with a door for a while, right before they laid me off the first time...

There was even talk for a while that techs didn't really need offices or computers...
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:29 AM   #152
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excellent question, one I've personally asked myself for years, actually. Read all of the responses and I think Onward's response truly nailed it.
I spent 6 yrs in school, working towards degree(s), I thought were so very sought after, financial independence, just a job or two away. Surprise. By the time I graduated, (Jimmy Carter, remember him?) the industry I earmarked was in a shambles. It did rebound; however has been outsourced since the early 90's. Personally, I should have known better; but, didn't have good mentors and received little guidance from our so-called education system. So, young and dumb, I ventured blindly into the workplace. Being the headstrong, independent knucklehead I am (and was even then), it took me 8-10 years and 3 jobs to figure out it was basically all the same. Finally, ended up in a decent situation, at a growing organization that actually valued their employees. It did change later, hostile takeover; but, it started me on the heavy investment/RE focus. Since that time, it's been our mantra. And now, as the career is winding down, I have few regrets and try and mentor my co-workers, peers and reports on the value of LBYM and investing a significant portion of their pay. Some listen, some don't. I think its a very important part of my job and I wish someone would have done it for me. Though, I probably wouldn't have listened, eh?..............
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:11 AM   #153
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2. Work isn't about work. It's mostly about dealing with difficult, and sometimes seriously deranged or vindictive people. Being a teacher isn't about teaching. It's mostly about dealing with difficult students, parents, and admins. Being a dentist isn't about dentistry. It's mostly about dealing with difficult patients, employees, and insurance companies.
I agree with everything you posted, but especially this. I characterise my main role in the job I just retired from to be an unfudger (putting it politely!) ie. getting people to do the simple things they know they were supposed to do in the first place instead of them putting more effort into avoiding doing them. It was a game that I tolerated for many years, but when I hit FI this year it became very unfunny very quickly. The rest is my ER history
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:31 AM   #154
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It's a funny thing about working - you love it for a long time, at least I did, and then one day you discover you really don't love it quite so much anymore.

How nice, if and when that occurs, to have achieved FI so that one can move in an entirely different direction . . . like ER.

I'm still as engaged in life as when I worked, I'm just engaged doing different things. And without those agonizing, annual self-evaluations, hallelujah!
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:53 AM   #155
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Hmm... How did I miss this interesting thread, and have not participated in? Oh, I was absent for a while.

Anyway, same as many people here, I actually liked what I was doing. I even enjoyed school, if anyone could believe that. I was able to choose what I wanted to learn; how do you beat that? I do not understand how people can chose an education or career that they did not like. It would be like torture for me.

And then, when I went to work at different megacorps, they did different things, and in different ways, and there were more for me to learn. It was when I learned enough that I became an expert in a particular field, not just at the megacorp but in the industry, I started to get bored, and had time to observe the clueless management.

Then, I got this thinking that since I was so smart, I could join with some like-minded friends to start our own company. So, I helped starting two different companies, with two different groups. We made good money for a while. Darn, we were good, and so smart!

And then, when the money was good, competitions moved in. Guys came out of nowhere. Hey, it's not fair! Some were not as smart, we didn't think, but they had deep, deep pockets, as they were backed by megacorps. Ughh...

That started our demise. So, after working for free for a few years trying to save our company, I gave up and became an independent contractor and freelancer. Did that for about 10 years, working when there was interesting work to be done (I would not just take any job).

I still miss designing "things" for people. I have done things for myself, but when you do it for somebody for hire, you have to meet certain requirements that are agreed in advance. When I do things just for fun, I tend to be sloppy. I said "things" because some of my better works were not really things, but analytical works (software, algorithms, procedures, failure analysis, etc...). I was fortunate to get to do many different things over my career, some not at all related though all were in engineering. I loved it when I was doing it.


PS. I forgot to answer the OP's question. No, I don't think I was clueless about my career. But my technical friends and I did not have the business acumen that was needed to maintain the initial success.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:51 AM   #156
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I don't think the FIRE'd people are clueless. On the contrary, they did what so many people in a tough spot did, they made the right decisions that were best for them and their loved ones. Yes, there was some suffering. Other than the Garden of Eden (which has been closed for a long time), I know of no place in the world without suffering.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:55 AM   #157
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- The fact that the times I have been happiest are when I ahve been outdoors. Being stuck in a cube has become agony.
You have a brewery in the woods??
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:00 PM   #158
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26 years ago I loved my job, I even liked and enjoyed it 10 years ago, but like many on here I think now it is time to move on so in 4 years, after working at the same job for 30 years, I'll move into the FIRE phase of my life.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:01 PM   #159
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You have a brewery in the woods??
I believe it is a still that would traditionally be in the woods, and I don't distil due to legal issues.

Actually, I do my brewing in the backyard which I would describe as park-like. In colder weather I have the fire pit going. Last weekend when I brewed I was also cutting and splitting about a cord of maple I snagged from a tree being cu down in the neighborhood.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:23 PM   #160
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I believe it is a still that would traditionally be in the woods, and I don't distil due to legal issues.

Actually, I do my brewing in the backyard which I would describe as park-like. In colder weather I have the fire pit going. Last weekend when I brewed I was also cutting and splitting about a cord of maple I snagged from a tree being cu down in the neighborhood.
I agree would much rather be in the woods than a cube. Really have fond memories of walking timber etc.

There are states where its legal to still, but for personal use only. This state allows 200 gallons per person!

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