Why were so many smart members of FIRE so clueless about their careers?

[urn2bfree]

I think that assuming that people are "clueless" in these circumstances is jumping to conclusions. Times change. Circumstances change. Attitudes change.

There is a quote often attributed to John Maynard Keynes, but probably not his and maybe originated with economist Paul Samuelson that is something like-

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

I think that quote applies to people deciding that their careers should end as well.

[foxfirev5]

Like some others I missed this post the first time around. The tone suggests that you have screwed up somehow to end up being in this FIRE community. There are lot's of things that happen over the course of time. When I started at Megacorp years ago the deal was that at age 55 you would get a pension along with what your put into the compliment thrift plan savings with a decent match. The math worked and I jumped onboard. (by the way this convinced me to bypass a Gov't job with similar bennies but less growth potential - silly me).

Fast forward 14 years and the pension is frozen and everybody is fighting for their job. No problem. I'm young enough and this will work out. 15 years later it's 2009 and your reapplying for the same job you've held for 10 years. Always had great reviews but that doesn't matter.

Fortunately I've always worked in the field and never been a cubicle rat (no insult intended). I can't say I've done anything wrong and I won't let anybody get me down. I view this forum as two phases - FI and RE. I'm at FI and will RE when I want to, strictly on my terms

[48Fire]

I wanted to retire early when I graduated from high school. When I went to college guidance counselor, he suggested engineering since I was very good at math. Since it paid well, I did it, but never was passionate about it like some of my co-workers. It was just a nice paycheck. So essentially, nothing changed in 35 years, just my ability to cope.

[Ozstache]

I found that I had about a 10 year attention span with careers that sparked my interest. First up was electronics technician, then software engineering and finally project management before I ERed. At the end of those 10 year spans, I had become a victim of my success by being propelled into management, which basically killed the passion. When I was a junior project engineer, I used to observe the project managers and wondered if their jobs were as frustrating as they looked. Unfortunately, my foresight was spot on!

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRG ... There are states where its legal to still, but for personal use only. This state allows 200 gallons per person! MRG

Better check your laws before you decide to take any action on that. I'm quite certain that it is illegal to distill alcohol w/o the proper Federal license.

It is legal in all states to brew beer or make wine, up to 200 gallons per household, 100 gal if only one adult (some states might have tighter restrictions?). Distillation is a whole 'nother matter.

-ERD50

[NW-Bound]

Whatever the law is regarding alcohol production, BATF is the agency that enforces it.

And they can be very, er, forceful from what I have read. Better be careful!

[Dawg52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redduck Something went south. A lot of you folks obviously studied hard, made all kinds of sacrifices, maybe even went to graduate school so you could work in your chosen profession. And, now, many of you are counting the days, months, years, or decades looking for the time you can quit the job you hate. Now, I understand that many of you just want to retire early to get on with your lives, but what about the others of you? What happened? What didn’t you account for? (Ah, duck, is this any way to make friends)? And, maybe more importantly, how did I make this post green?

It's asking a lot for teenagers to make life long career decisions. And that is what many do when choosing a degree to pursue in college. Once you have that, it's not so easy to pursue a career not related to your college education. Many are stuck by decisions made early in life. That's not clueless imo.

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Better check your laws before you decide to take any action on that. I'm quite certain that it is illegal to distill alcohol w/o the proper Federal license. It is legal in all states to brew beer or make wine, up to 200 gallons per household, 100 gal if only one adult (some states might have tighter restrictions?). Distillation is a whole 'nother matter. -ERD50

I stand corrected, the federal law overrides the state. Missouri law says its legal but the feds override it. Much like some other states that say you can do certain things that are illegal at the federal level.

Really wasn't planning on acting on distilling, thought was what would one do with 200 gallons per year?


Understanding the Law

MRG

[seraphim]

Quote:

It's asking a lot for teenagers to make life long career decisions. And that is what many do when choosing a degree to pursue in college. Once you have that, it's not so easy to pursue a career not related to your college education. Many are stuck by decisions made early in life. That's not clueless imo.

Yep. I just recently retired, and I'm still not sure what I want to do when I grow up.

[rockyj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redduck Something went south. ... What happened? What didn’t you account for?

Stuff happens - much of which can't be anticipated. Things can go gradually and unpredictably south despite having started down an otherwise interesting and rewarding path, and despite having continued good intentions. Company reorgs, new tasks, new taskmasters, new layers of reporting, compliance routines, etc. Some change can be positive or at least re-framed to offer new opportunities for growth. Some not so much. Sometimes work just loses it's freshness over the years and it feels like time for something new. In the end, you may find yourself far enough along a path that making a severe course correction, as in taking a major step back to move to a new career, or perhaps throwing away soon to vest retirement benefits, would be foolish. If you find yourself in that situation, you stick it out, do your best to continue to contribute and survive as you can, while keeping an eye on the prize until the golden handcuffs come off. It has less to do with being clueless than with moving through life and playing the cards your dealt as best you can.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRG I stand corrected, the federal law overrides the state. Missouri law says its legal but the feds override it. Much like some other states that say you can do certain things that are illegal at the federal level. Really wasn't planning on acting on distilling, thought was what would one do with 200 gallons per year? Understanding the Law MRG

Interesting, I didn't know that some states 'legalized' it (if you an call it that since fed law trumps state law, as you point out).

But yes, what the heck would you do with 100 or 200 gallons of high-proof alcohol! I have had a sip of the illegal stuff. No big deal, I can't really see much point in sipping straight distilled alcohol, but it wasn't bad at all. For me, it was just the curiosity, and I think also for the guy who made it. I think he made a mason jar amount.

A not-so-funny story on one of the home brewing forums - A guy said some cops were asking questions when they saw him brewing beer in his driveway. Many home brewers use a copper coil that they run tap water through to cool their beer after the boil, to bring it to the right temperature for the yeast to go to work (technically, it is still called 'wort' at this point). The copper coil is known as an immersion chiller. Well, these cops saw 'copper coil', and had some training to know those are used in distilling. So they were threatening to arrest this guy for illegal distilling.

IIRC, he managed to talk his way out of it, but it could be scary.


-ERD50

[razztazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 48Fire I wanted to retire early when I graduated from high school. When I went to college guidance counselor, he suggested engineering since I was very good at math. Since it paid well, I did it, but never was passionate about it like some of my co-workers. It was just a nice paycheck. So essentially, nothing changed in 35 years, just my ability to cope.

This is so true. I never wanted to "BE" anything career-wise. (Besides opera singer but I put that in the category of "cowboy" and "Batman" and got serious) I just worked because I had to and it's the only way to get enough money to retire. "Passionate" I was not except maybe in the beginning when you're just pushing Life's buttons and it's all fun. There was no career to eff-up and nothing to be clueless about. I knew exactly what I wanted and exactly what I was doing

[Bestwifeever]

I thought of this thread when I saw an excerpt from this article by Scott Adams:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...21813075903866

Success begets passion (not the other way around), goals breed failure, and luck is very important but you need to keep moving around til luck finds you.

[Amethyst]

None of my passions would have earned me a living, but my living has allowed me to pursue my passions as hobbies!

Amethyst

[rescueme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst None of my passions would have earned me a living, but my living has allowed me to pursue my passions as hobbies! Amethyst

Well said...

I never had a career but I aways had a job. Earning money was my focus during my accumulation years, which allowed me to retire earlier than most and lets me live as I wish - not as I have to, in retirement.

[stepford]

To be blunt, I've always been lazy. I knew I'd prefer not working even before I started working. Grad school was a means to avoid going to work. However, just because I was lazy didn't mean I was an idiot. I did the math and knew I needed to work for a while to not work for a longer while. Since I never found any profession I loved (though I did, fortunately, find one I was good at) work was always just a means to this end.

Finally after 25 years of playing that game it's time to start being the bum I was always meant to be.

[LoneAspen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepford To be blunt, I've always been lazy. I knew I'd prefer not working even before I started working. Grad school was a means to avoid going to work. However, just because I was lazy didn't mean I was an idiot. I did the math and knew I needed to work for a while to not work for a longer while. Since I never found any profession I loved (though I did, fortunately, find one I was good at) work was always just a means to this end. Finally after 25 years of playing that game it's time to start being the bum I was always meant to be.

I very much sympathize with this point of view. Although the first job I had out of college was exciting to me, I think it was only exciting because I was moving away from a small Southern town and living at home (I lived at home during college), to a metro area and my own apartment.

It didn't take me long to figure out that having to work, sit in a cube, do what somebody else tells me, and make THEM money...sucks.

Thinking back, in the almost 25 years it's been since I left college in 1990, the only job I had I truly enjoyed was as a real estate agent for 2.5 years, when I was running my own show. Every other job I've had has just been another unchallenging and unrewarding rat race.

I could wax poetic about how all those experiences "built character", made me a better person, blah blah blah, but if I could push a button and have been born into a wealthy family and never had to work a day in my life, I probably would.

[Amethyst]

Me three! I already was a character.

Amethyst

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAspen I could wax poetic about how all those experiences "built character", made me a better person, blah blah blah, but if I could push a button and have been born into a wealthy family and never had to work a day in my life, I probably would.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAspen I very much sympathize with this point of view. Although the first job I had out of college was exciting to me, I think it was only exciting because I was moving away from a small Southern town and living at home (I lived at home during college), to a metro area and my own apartment. It didn't take me long to figure out that having to work, sit in a cube, do what somebody else tells me, and make THEM money...sucks. Thinking back, in the almost 25 years it's been since I left college in 1990, the only job I had I truly enjoyed was as a real estate agent for 2.5 years, when I was running my own show. Every other job I've had has just been another unchallenging and unrewarding rat race. I could wax poetic about how all those experiences "built character", made me a better person, blah blah blah, but if I could push a button and have been born into a wealthy family and never had to work a day in my life, I probably would.

I didn't see it that way. To me, a career meant independence. I made the decision to go into a high paying field mainly because it was likely to lead to FI eventually. I was particularly concerned about loss of independence on marriage and being tied to the fortunes of some guy who might not turn out to be Prince Charming. I had both good and bad experiences that I had not anticipated. I did what I had to do. The interesting thing is that my career alone would not have made me FIRE. I got there with the help of an inheritance from my LBYM lower middle class parents.

[kaudrey]

I like my job. It is rewarding and I feel it is important. Everything is going as I planned! My parents retired at age 57, when I was in my mid-20s. My parents taught me to LBYM, and when they retired, my goal was to retire at the same age they did. Now, 20 years later, I am on track to do just that.

We actually could do it sooner, except for the issues around federal health benefits. I have to stay until 57 to get those, and that is a huge perk not worth missing.