Will An Economic Stimulus Package Work? - Page 2

Bikerdude · 01-18-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DallasGuy

I read that if they give a rebate only people under a certain income would probably get it. One online article speculated that only singles making under $85,000 and couples making under $110,000 would get it. I suppose that makes sense since they are the people most likely to need it and most likely to spend the rebate. Of course, it still remains to be seen if there will be income limits on a rebate.

I also heard the word "workers" in the rebate plan. So us retired folks may be out of luck

.

OAG · 01-18-2008, 01:35 PM

I was kidding about the HD TV, although I agree many will buy one. But now we have to wait until June 2008 to get the money; talk about acting quickly.

My solution would be to give every valid and still alive SSN with a good address a DEBIT CARD with maybe a 90 Day expiration date. That way everyone would get one; it is quick and IT WILL BE 100% spent or the card expires. "Simple, Quickly done and Quickly spent". I bet this is too simple for the folks in Washington, DC, especially for those that think quick is June 2008.

martyb · 01-18-2008, 01:43 PM

If we get 16 hundred bucks, it won't buy any new toys. It'll either go to our IRAs or towards paying down a couple minor debts.

CCdaCE · 01-18-2008, 02:39 PM

I thought Forbes had a good article covering most of the bases, or alleged bases.

-CC

danm · 01-18-2008, 02:40 PM

It's doubtful it'll have any impact. We're in an insolvency crisis (along with a few others including a consumer debt crisis), all the money will do is make voters look a little more kindly on the incumbent president, perhaps.

Actually there's not much either the Fed or the fed govt. can do to fix things, it just has to work it's way through.

2B · 01-18-2008, 03:46 PM

The scary part is that the $145 billion would probably be better spent guaranteeing all of the subprime debts that got us into this mess.

The Fed has been almost totally befuddled by this whole thing. The only thing that has been positive is the fed fund auctions. That has kept banks with enough liquidity to maintain their solvency.

Overall, Greenspan put the rates too low for too long and then raised them too high. He also could have stopped the subprime mess when it was just starting but he cheered it on. Bernacke raised rates when he came in to show he was tough but that just guaranteed the collapse. Now they need to drop rates dramatically to get things going and then raise them slowly back up.

I do think the stock market mania is way over done. Non-financial companies seem to be doing well but punished along with everything else. The S&P fell about 50% during the 2001/2003 fall but earnings had already collapsed. We're almost half way there since Oct 07 and overall S&P earnings are still rising.

barbarus · 01-18-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danm

Actually there's not much either the Fed or the fed govt. can do to fix things, it just has to work it's way through.

Quite true, but they can make the situation much worse and probably will.

jazz4cash · 01-18-2008, 05:42 PM

I guess I'm shocked at the "free money' comments.

I beleive this will be a tax cut/rebate so while I like the idea of paying less taxes, Im probably just getting my own money back if I even qualify. Since they want this directed at whoever they think will use it to consume more. During Bernanke's testimony, they fretted over how to get money to non-filers (helicopters!) Since they want they money to be used for consumer goods, perhaps they will send Wal-Mart gift cards instead of checks.

Rustic23 · 01-18-2008, 05:44 PM

Lots of folks think in terms of 'Free Money' from the government.

jazz4cash · 01-18-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustic23

Lots of folks think in terms of 'Free Money' from the government.

Yeah...but I did expect to find as many on this board.

megacorp-firee · 01-18-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikerdude

I also heard the word "workers" in the rebate plan. So us retired folks may be out of luck

.

WHAT! Call my lawyer! ...sue ...sue ... class action

newguy88 · 01-18-2008, 09:46 PM

1600, might go towards my trip to the Summer Olympics. In China, go figure.

RetireeRobert · 01-19-2008, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retire Soon

President Bush and congress are working on an economic stimulus package that could put as much as a $1,600 tax rebate in the hands of a married couple or $800 for a single person. With 70% of our economy dependent upon consumer spending, this could certainly help revive our sputtering economy. Do you agree or disagree?

Agree. I recall tax rebates were used to good effect back in 2000 or 2001 when the recession and tech bubble burst were hurting the economy. 2003 the stock market started going gangbusters along with the revived economy.

hellodeli1 · 01-19-2008, 08:34 AM

I read an interesting post on this over at musings on personal finance -- to summarize, Americans have such a poor savings rate, that it's a pretty good bet that that money will go directly into the economy. Now, I'm not sure on a higher level what kind of impact it will make . . .

Arc · 01-19-2008, 08:50 AM

More wealth redistribution anyone? I agree with Unclehoney - let the market forces work!

Note: Comment biased by expectation that I would not be one of the lucky check recipients.

Retire Soon · 01-19-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikerdude

I also heard the word "workers" in the rebate plan. So us retired folks may be out of luck

.

The "unofficial White House plan" is to suspend the 10% tax code rate, which is the bottom rate that everyone with taxable income actually pays. The intention of the plan is to give a rebate to anyone who pays income taxes, which would include ER's like many of us. It's interesting to note that 57 million Americans pay no federal income taxes at all, and would receive no benefit under the administration's proposal. This group of people includes 30 million low wage earners and the rest mostly retirees. Democrats are pushing to extend the White House plan by including everyone who filed an income tax return, whether or not they actually paid taxes. The bottom line is that President Bush would like to include us ER's who pay income taxes receive the $800/$1600 tax rebate and not just w*rking foks.

Bush, Democrats Spar on Stimulus - WSJ.com

militaryman · 01-19-2008, 10:09 AM

My parents make about 20k from a annuity pension.

After the standard married deduction of 10K(?) and the 2 exemption for self and spouse they have about 3000 of taxable (10% tax bracket) income. So eliminating the 10% tax bracket would result in 300 dollars for them I guess. Which actually would be of some help at their level.

If their annuity was 17k they would be outta luck I suppose.

TromboneAl · 01-19-2008, 10:11 AM

Retailers would be smart to tailor their prices to the rebate. If the rebate is $1,600, price the HDTV to exactly $1,600, and call it the "Free After Rebate" TV.

**REWahoo** · 01-19-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl

Retailers would be smart to tailor their prices to the rebate. If the rebate is $1,600, price the HDTV to exactly $1,600, and call it the "Free After Rebate" TV.

Yep. Might also be a good idea to do a "Cash your rebate check here for free and get XX% off anything in the store" promotion.

Alan · 01-19-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeD

According to Robert Samuelson, who I read in the Washington Post, it will be too small to have an effect on an economy as big as ours.

I have not linked to this site before but I found the article on the Interweb:
RealClearPolitics - Articles - Stimulus Will Be Unneeded or Too Little

Mike D.

I tend to agree. $100B rebate sounds a lot, but it is a $14T economy. However, politically they always have to do something.

01-18-2008, 01:35 PM	#22
OAG Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dublin, Ohio Posts: 1,823	I was kidding about the HD TV, although I agree many will buy one. But now we have to wait until June 2008 to get the money; talk about acting quickly. My solution would be to give every valid and still alive SSN with a good address a DEBIT CARD with maybe a 90 Day expiration date. That way everyone would get one; it is quick and IT WILL BE 100% spent or the card expires. "Simple, Quickly done and Quickly spent". I bet this is too simple for the folks in Washington, DC, especially for those that think quick is June 2008. __________________ Proud Vietnam Veteran: Cu Chi 66, 1/25th, HHC 25th and Pleiku 66-67 41st Sig Bn 1st STRATCOM

01-18-2008, 01:43 PM	#23
martyb Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Janesville, WI Posts: 497	If we get 16 hundred bucks, it won't buy any new toys. It'll either go to our IRAs or towards paying down a couple minor debts. __________________ *A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man...which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.* -G Gordon Liddy**

01-18-2008, 02:39 PM	#24
CCdaCE Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 581	I thought Forbes had a good article covering most of the bases, or alleged bases. -CC __________________ "There's those thinkin' more or less, less is more, but if less is more, how you keepin' score? It means for every point you make, your level drops. Kinda like you're startin' from the top..." "Society" - Eddie Vedder

01-18-2008, 03:46 PM	#26
2B Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 2,271	The scary part is that the $145 billion would probably be better spent guaranteeing all of the subprime debts that got us into this mess. The Fed has been almost totally befuddled by this whole thing. The only thing that has been positive is the fed fund auctions. That has kept banks with enough liquidity to maintain their solvency. Overall, Greenspan put the rates too low for too long and then raised them too high. He also could have stopped the subprime mess when it was just starting but he cheered it on. Bernacke raised rates when he came in to show he was tough but that just guaranteed the collapse. Now they need to drop rates dramatically to get things going and then raise them slowly back up. I do think the stock market mania is way over done. Non-financial companies seem to be doing well but punished along with everything else. The S&P fell about 50% during the 2001/2003 fall but earnings had already collapsed. We're almost half way there since Oct 07 and overall S&P earnings are still rising. __________________ The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius

01-19-2008, 08:34 AM	#34
hellodeli1 Dryer sheet wannabe Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 10	Will it stimulate the economy? I read an interesting post on this over at musings on personal finance -- to summarize, Americans have such a poor savings rate, that it's a pretty good bet that that money will go directly into the economy. Now, I'm not sure on a higher level what kind of impact it will make . . .

01-18-2008, 02:40 PM	#25
danm Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 137	It's doubtful it'll have any impact. We're in an insolvency crisis (along with a few others including a consumer debt crisis), all the money will do is make voters look a little more kindly on the incumbent president, perhaps. Actually there's not much either the Fed or the fed govt. can do to fix things, it just has to work it's way through.

01-18-2008, 05:42 PM	#28
jazz4cash Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Laurel, MD Posts: 1,075	I guess I'm shocked at the "free money' comments. I beleive this will be a tax cut/rebate so while I like the idea of paying less taxes, Im probably just getting my own money back if I even qualify. Since they want this directed at whoever they think will use it to consume more. During Bernanke's testimony, they fretted over how to get money to non-filers (helicopters!) Since they want they money to be used for consumer goods, perhaps they will send Wal-Mart gift cards instead of checks.

01-18-2008, 05:44 PM	#29
Rustic23 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lake Livingston, Tx Posts: 1,028	Lots of folks think in terms of 'Free Money' from the government.

01-18-2008, 09:46 PM	#32
newguy88 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,119	1600, might go towards my trip to the Summer Olympics. In China, go figure.

01-19-2008, 08:50 AM	#35
Arc Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 370	More wealth redistribution anyone? I agree with Unclehoney - let the market forces work! Note: Comment biased by expectation that I would not be one of the lucky check recipients.

01-19-2008, 10:09 AM	#37
militaryman Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 88	My parents make about 20k from a annuity pension. After the standard married deduction of 10K(?) and the 2 exemption for self and spouse they have about 3000 of taxable (10% tax bracket) income. So eliminating the 10% tax bracket would result in 300 dollars for them I guess. Which actually would be of some help at their level. If their annuity was 17k they would be outta luck I suppose.

01-19-2008, 10:11 AM	#38
TromboneAl Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,163	Retailers would be smart to tailor their prices to the rebate. If the rebate is $1,600, price the HDTV to exactly $1,600, and call it the "Free After Rebate" TV. __________________ - Al -- Always serious, never joking. No, wait. Never serious... Always... I forget.

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