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Will and Property
Old 09-11-2019, 02:10 PM   #1
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Will and Property

I know, hire a lawyer. But I understand there is both tangible (Real property, such as real estate, land, and buildings. Cash, including money in checking accounts, savings accounts, and money market accounts)

and intangible property (stocks, bonds, and other forms of business ownership, as well as intellectual property, royalties, patents, and copyrights, etc) to bequest in one's will.

How do you will your wedding ring?
Your grandfather's flag from the war?
Your automobiles like that muscle car or that beater rust bucket?
Your clothing? True story I head someone wearing there dead parent's clothes...I guess you know that old rock concert tee you attended together but your t shirt is ruined... but their jeans


I am torn, I think things can be defined as:
"keep it in the family heirloom box" or
"keep it if you want but donate at will"

Which of course also ventures into that "dictating from the grave" thinking...

I mean stocks/bonds/real property like housing real estate business etc seems like a no brainer, leave it to surviving spouse and/or divide up with kids/grandkids...
if no kids, donate somewhere, but where? I know enter Estate Planner/ Trustees...

I mean that's the only way right?

To complicate things, this will is really to protect your heirs, your finances, litigation, and you heirs risk of litigation regarding assets...

So who do you trust to dispense the assets (executor co/exec)to the kiddos or whomever? Your bro? Your aunt? Your folks who are old?

We've been putting this on the back burner. I have like a half will.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:33 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by kgtest View Post
So who do you trust to dispense the assets (executor co/exec)to the kiddos or whomever? Your bro? Your aunt? Your folks who are old?

We've been putting this on the back burner. I have like a half will.
My sons are co-executors and sole beneficiaries. They will decide, unless I decide beforehand.

If I had family heirlooms (none so far), I would disburse them before death if I could. Everything else will likely be sold and the proceeds disbursed. If they choose a different path once we are gone, that's fine too.

Don't put your will on the back burner. Without one, the state will make decisions for you.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:40 PM   #3
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At all banks and brokerage accounts possible, I assign TOD/POD (Transfer on Death, or Pay on Death). This keeps these things out of a WILL, so no probate needed.

physical property like buildings, land, are in the WILL, and will need to be probated.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:44 PM   #4
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As for tangible personal property, I believe all states allow what is known as a separate writing. Your will states that "I devise all my tangible personal property as described in a separate writing executed after the execution of this will". You then simply prepare a list of items such as "my college ring to my son, George", sign and date the writing and file it with your will. The beauty of this is you can change it any time without requiring a new will.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:52 PM   #5
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Our daughter is on our checking accounts and safety deposit box. She's also a secondary beneficiary on our IRA Rollover account. My wife is primary beneficiary on my 401K and I am her 401k primary beneficiary.

The first to die in our situation will not require to have the will probated. It's the last to die (in the marriage) that will require probating of the will because of real estate ownership.

After all, probate is where a judge gives authorization to the executor of a will the right to sign to transfer assets of the deceased. And of course, the judge wants to verify that all liabilities, including all taxes, have been paid. The judge doesn't want creditors to clog up the courts with lawsuits against the estate for nonpayment.

Someone that has sold their real estate and lived their last days in apartments, assisted living or nursing homes often don't have to have the will probated if their business is kept simple.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:54 PM   #6
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At all banks and brokerage accounts possible, I assign TOD/POD (Transfer on Death, or Pay on Death). This keeps these things out of a WILL, so no probate needed.

physical property like buildings, land, are in the WILL, and will need to be probated.
Bold by me. This depends on your state. In ours, both real estate and autos can have a TOD/POD.

The will is there to basically make it clear that all the other "stuff" goes to DS (and most probably to Goodwill)

We have little in the way of collectibles and jewelry, but those would be covered as well.

Get the will. For nothing more than piece of mind.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:04 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Gill View Post
As for tangible personal property, I believe all states allow what is known as a separate writing. Your will states that "I devise all my tangible personal property as described in a separate writing executed after the execution of this will". You then simply prepare a list of items such as "my college ring to my son, George", sign and date the writing and file it with your will. The beauty of this is you can change it any time without requiring a new will.
F-I-L did this. Worked fine.

Follow up question: Widow wants to sell Tesla. Title is in his name...
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:20 PM   #8
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F-I-L did this. Worked fine.

Follow up question: Widow wants to sell Tesla. Title is in his name...
Well, first, title it in both names. Second check you state laws regarding TOD/POD. In MO, a car can be transferred this way.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:23 PM   #9
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F-I-L did this. Worked fine.

Follow up question: Widow wants to sell Tesla. Title is in his name...
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Originally Posted by CardsFan View Post
Well, first, title it in both names. Second check you state laws regarding TOD/POD. In MO, a car can be transferred this way.
If a widow, then the FIL is already deceased. State law may allow the widow to take title to the car, no probate needed.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:40 PM   #10
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For small items, whether they have economic value or not, I have heard of a few ways via DW, who was in the trusts & estates business at a megabank. Note that "small items" can include things like 4 wheelers, tools, sports equipment, appliances, guns, etc. It is not just tchotchkes.

1. A list, as mentioned.

2. A piece of tape on the bottom of small items, with the name of the beneficiary.

3. A round-robin where all beneficiaries choose items in sequence until everything that is wanted is distributed, then the rest goes to an estate sale or charity. In taking turns picking items, the economic value of the item is not considered. The "pickers" can be specified, one per child/family, all descendents individually, or whatever the donor chooses.

Or, of course, a combination.

And, yes, @kgtest, you do need a lawyer who is an expert in trusts & estates.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:55 PM   #11
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Real estate is easy, so are bank and investment accounts. Talk to your lawyer.

Personal property can start a family fight like no other. I'd suggest giving it away while you're alive. Hand it right to the person who you want to get it when you're gone and you'll enjoy it more than ever.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:34 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sunset View Post
At all banks and brokerage accounts possible, I assign TOD/POD (Transfer on Death, or Pay on Death). This keeps these things out of a WILL, so no probate needed.

physical property like buildings, land, are in the WILL, and will need to be probated.
How will your executor pay for insurance, utilities, maintenance, taxes, etc. on the real estate while the estate is settled?
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:40 PM   #13
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F-I-L did this. Worked fine.

Follow up question: Widow wants to sell Tesla. Title is in his name...
When Mrs Scrapr passed just needed to take a death cert to DMV and title was changed. It was only a few dollars. Title changed to my name only. Got the new title surprisingly fast. Like about a week
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:44 PM   #14
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With all the talk in Oregon and Washington about earthquake risk, my mind wanders to my sibling and her husband who live on the OR coast but high on a hill. Let me assure you that her siblings are not in their will. Their estate is substantial. What happens if they are killed in the predicted tsunami? I hope their attorney as a copy of the will and that they have PODs on their accounts, but.... think about the Bahamians and their estate planning.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill View Post
As for tangible personal property, I believe all states allow what is known as a separate writing. Your will states that "I devise all my tangible personal property as described in a separate writing executed after the execution of this will". You then simply prepare a list of items such as "my college ring to my son, George", sign and date the writing and file it with your will. The beauty of this is you can change it any time without requiring a new will.
Gill

That works in most states, but not mine: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...your-will.html


Luckily, I am an only child, and we have only one child. My partner has a brother, but BIL has zero sentimentality, and we would of course offer to deduct the fair market price of any items we wanted from partner's half of the estate's assets.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:06 PM   #16
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When Mrs Scrapr passed just needed to take a death cert to DMV and title was changed. It was only a few dollars. Title changed to my name only. Got the new title surprisingly fast. Like about a week
I found state help page on this.
Since wife was not on title, she can drive car for 30 days. Then the auto passes into the estate, and there are a handful of requirements to complete.

Obviously, it is better to have both names on the title in this state.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by OldShooter View Post
For small items, whether they have economic value or not, I have heard of a few ways via DW, who was in the trusts & estates business at a megabank. Note that "small items" can include things like 4 wheelers, tools, sports equipment, appliances, guns, etc. It is not just tchotchkes.

1. A list, as mentioned.

2. A piece of tape on the bottom of small items, with the name of the beneficiary.

3. A round-robin where all beneficiaries choose items in sequence until everything that is wanted is distributed, then the rest goes to an estate sale or charity. In taking turns picking items, the economic value of the item is not considered. The "pickers" can be specified, one per child/family, all descendents individually, or whatever the donor chooses.

Or, of course, a combination.

And, yes, @kgtest, you do need a lawyer who is an expert in trusts & estates.
My FIL hired an auction company, family was all invited to attend and let the bidding sort it out.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:06 PM   #18
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Good info folks. Exactly what I needed to get 3/4 done lol. The last part is having that second set of atty eyes look at it. I know DW work offers something but you need to plan to signup for the service before the new year so it becomes "active".

Just trying to prepare ourselves. The tougher part for us was sort of answering the question "Who will take the kids, god forbid".

We asked BIL and SIL if they would take on that duty to which they said yes.

I have enough life insurance, investments are solid and I don't really have too much "property". Eventually I will title both properties to the kgtest and mrs kgtest trust. For now, everything is simply in my name...DW wanted it that way. IRAs are all setup for DW as beneficiary and she has her setup for me as beneficiary. A lot of this information is written down and printed out...but I wanted to sort of double check before actually going to the atty to make it all official Skimmed but I'll try to respond soon.
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FIRE in 2031 @ 50yrs old (+/- 2yrs) w/ a hypothetical $2.5mil portfolio, 3 appreciated homes worth $1.0mil and rental income to fund my gap years until RMD. Assets will go to an inherited IRA where I plan on watching the investments grow until I die or the trust gets executed.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:08 PM   #19
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When Mrs Scrapr passed just needed to take a death cert to DMV and title was changed. It was only a few dollars. Title changed to my name only. Got the new title surprisingly fast. Like about a week
Interesting.
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AA (Stock/Bond/Cash ): 96.5/0/3.5% MIX (Small/Mid/Large): 25/25/50% BLEND(US/Foreign): 100/0%, REIT (Real Estate Equity): ~50% of Assets

FIRE in 2031 @ 50yrs old (+/- 2yrs) w/ a hypothetical $2.5mil portfolio, 3 appreciated homes worth $1.0mil and rental income to fund my gap years until RMD. Assets will go to an inherited IRA where I plan on watching the investments grow until I die or the trust gets executed.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:46 PM   #20
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I found state help page on this.
Since wife was not on title, she can drive car for 30 days. Then the auto passes into the estate, and there are a handful of requirements to complete.

Obviously, it is better to have both names on the title in this state.
The problem with both names on the title is if one of the names passes then how you can sell the car if needed. Our situation was more complicated as we each had cars, plus one for our child plus one more that was ordered but not completed before she passed. I was selling cars faster than Krisel Brothers

https://youtu.be/YR0PQD-7BLw
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