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10-04-2005, 07:59 PM
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#21
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary_Girl
Because in Canada, I would actually have to pay MORE to have some of my electricity come from green.* This is due to the higher capital costs involved in constructing wind turbines.
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Yup, wind turbines are very expensive to build but very low marginal cost. To get an adequate return on investment company's will typically have to charge more for wind power than for fossil fuel plants just to recover the up front capital.
However, Texas made the brillant decision to deregulate its power so all the low marginal cost coal and nuclear power plants are now able to price their power based on the marginal cost of the highest cost power plant in the state - which in Texas are natural gas plants. With 12 month forward gas prices at $12, even wind is cheaper.
So in Texas you can buy green power less expensively then "dirty" power, it is only because you are paying more than most other people on the planet for electricity.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
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10-04-2005, 08:11 PM
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#22
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
So in Texas you can buy green power less expensively then "dirty" power, it is only because you are paying more than most other people on the planet for electricity.
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$0.079 per Kwh
__________________
Numbers is hard
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10-04-2005, 08:22 PM
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#23
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
$0.079 per Kwh*
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I have to call bluff - who is your provider and in what area? The local REPs are all around 11 cents or so - Reliant and TXU just put in for big rate increases. Pre-increase request I think the biggest discount I've seen in TX was around 20% to the REPs (which would be about 9 cents) and that wasn't any of the green providers.
If you got 7.9 cents for power (including delivery charges) that is pretty amazing. I'd be interested to know who is making that offer.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
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10-04-2005, 08:26 PM
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#24
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
I have to call bluff - who is your provider and in what area? The local REPs are all around 11 cents or so - Reliant and TXU just put in for big rate increases. Pre-increase request I think the biggest discount I've seen in TX was around 20% to the REPs (which would be about 9 cents) and that wasn't any of the green providers.
If you got 7.9 cents for power (including delivery charges) that is pretty amazing. I'd be interested to know who is making that offer.
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I don't bluff...
http://www.bandera-ec.com/choose_to_renew.htm
__________________
Numbers is hard
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10-04-2005, 08:32 PM
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#25
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
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Re: Wind Generated Power
My bad - the Co-ops aren't part of the deregulation scheme that is sending everyone elses rates in the state to 14 cents +.
Congrats on the low cost power.
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Retired early, traveling perpetually.
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10-04-2005, 08:45 PM
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#26
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Is there a way to just stick your own windmill on the roof of your house?* I wouldn't care about the 20 years to get back the cost, I'm just thinking tree hugger here.*
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Yup, sailboats use them all the time. Expensive & noisy but, over the years, they will pay for themselves.
Powering a sailboat is one thing. Producing 20 KWhr/day for a small home load (without A/C) might take up more space than there is roof.
__________________
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Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
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10-04-2005, 10:35 PM
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#27
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,267
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Well, we don't need A/C, but we'll keep shopping for alterna-energy...
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10-05-2005, 06:12 AM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Well, we don't need A/C, but we'll keep shopping for alterna-energy...
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Laurence, aren't you in the People's Republic of California? Go solar, baby.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
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10-05-2005, 09:01 AM
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#29
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,267
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Laurence, aren't you in the People's Republic of California? Go solar, baby.
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SNORT! Aye Comrad! I hear there are good incentives for that being handed out by our glorious people's revolutionary council. We'll see.
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10-05-2005, 09:55 AM
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#30
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
SNORT! Aye Comrad!* I hear there are good incentives for that being handed out by our glorious people's revolutionary council.* We'll see.*
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CA is a hotbed of solar activity and you'll do well even during the June Gloom.
Nov/Dec will be absolutely overbooked as people try to start work before the end of the tax year, but Jan/Feb may be a good time to go shopping. Read the other solar threads here and think of it as a nice dividend-paying investment that hedges against rising fuel costs.
__________________
*
Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
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10-05-2005, 10:11 AM
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#31
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
CA is a hotbed of solar activity and you'll do well even during the June Gloom.
Nov/Dec will be absolutely overbooked as people try to start work before the end of the tax year, but Jan/Feb may be a good time to go shopping.* Read the other solar threads here and think of it as a nice dividend-paying investment that hedges against rising fuel costs.
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Expect January and February to be nuts this year. Remember, there is a new Fed tax credit coming on stream 1/1/06.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
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10-05-2005, 10:04 PM
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#32
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,318
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan
Right now, new wind energy installations in the US aren't viable without a production tax credit from the government. Currently $0.019 per kWh, extended through 2007. Without that, you won't see any new wind turbines being sold until the cost to produce and operate them comes down.
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What would it take to see traditional electricity sources' prices rise by 2 cents per kWh and bring wind back 'in the money' even without the credit? (I don't know the numbers, but if they are that close, it may not be too long).
If world demand for energy keeps up, then the good old days of cheap fossil fuels are gone for good.
And that is without the added shocks of storms in the energy-production areas, which may or may not crop up again in the coming years.
I actually looked into investing in wind farms when I first ERd -- part of the private equity part of my portfolio allocation. I never pulled the trigger, but was impressed at how these wind farms have become very sophisticated operations. One thing is true: just like in looks and brains, Nature doesn't dole out its goodies evenly. The most desirable locations for wind farms are carefully mapped and teams are out all over the landowners there trying to get contracts signed for wind rights.
Of course as prices converge, then less exalted wind-producing areas become economical.
I know from my sailboat though that it takes a heckuvalot of wind to fill a battery, vs an hour or so cranking the old Yanmar diesel.
__________________
ER for 10 years; living off 4.3% of savings (and a few book royalties ;-)
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10-05-2005, 10:56 PM
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#33
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
It might surprise some of you that Texas (yes, Texas ) is second only to California in the amount of wind generated electircity produced and sold in the US.
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And Austin is #1 in green energy sold to businesses and residential units.
I pay .0525/KWH for my renewable power, which includes the delivery and the fuel charge. Regular customers will see an increase in January due to natural gas increases; the renewable rate is fixed until 2015.
The deregulation in Texas has only increased prices for those unfortunate enough to not have co-op or municipal power.
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10-05-2005, 11:51 PM
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#34
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 911
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Re: Wind Generated Power
I drove past a huge wind farm down near the Washington/Oregon border today... it was..... underwhelming. For some reason I expected more... more "high tech" looking, but instead the rolling hills looked kinda spiky. Oh well. I still liked it
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10-06-2005, 11:47 AM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
It might surprise some of you that Texas (yes, Texas ) is second only to California in the amount of wind generated electircity produced and sold in the US.
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No surprise. Lot of hot air coming out of texas the last few years.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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10-06-2005, 12:14 PM
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#36
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
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Re: Wind Generated Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by ()
No surprise. Lot of hot air coming out of texas the last few years.
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I have to disagree with you. Texas has been very successful in exporting most of it to the shores of the Potomac. But even that hasn't done much to clear up things in and around "Foggy Bottom".
__________________
Numbers is hard
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