Withdrawal Phase and Taxes

WilliamG

Recycles dryer sheets
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Standard advice is to use already taxed accounts first, then deferred then tax free (i.e., Roth). Our portfolio is predominantly tax deferred and we have no pensions so we have withdrawn from it pretty generously since retirement and reaching age 59 1/2. Until recently we have supplemented IRA withdrawals with already taxed $. Regular IRA is currently about 75% of our portfolio and have kept at about 15% tax rate but not above since retiring in 2000. Have even done some Roth conversion thinking would be advantageous later on and help keep RMDs from getting really large early on in 70's.

Our already taxed $, except for IBonds, are down now and we have planned to supplement IRA at marginal tax bracket with Roth and/or IBonds. Roths are approximately 15% and IBonds 10% of total portfolio. Those IBonds by the way are vintage 3.4% and greater real return kind, so cashing in will be very hard! Have also thought might want to move Roths or part of Roths to Wellesley and take the dividends that way supplementing IRA some every year. Wellesley is 1/3 of our portfolio allocation already but is all located in the IRA.

Would be interested in others' thoughts on this and strategies of others who have already ER'd on when and how they tap various accounts.
 
William, there is some great past information on your question. You might want to do a search on tax withdrawal optimization. There is also good info on this over on the Boglehead's forum.
 
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Thanks MasterBlaster, we have used I-Orp for several years. I ran it a couple of months ago and it came back completely using up our Roths over 7-8 years with the first 4 years pushed down to the 10% marginal rate. Am sure the math in there somewhere is good, but too radical for me! Want to hold the Roths in reserve a little longer if we can.

How would you input IBonds into I-Orp? I just put it with IRA $. Definitely don't want to call it just taxable account since you have the un-taxed return of principal and not taxed by State tax where we have a 7% bracket.
 
How does ORP work if you don't spend all the withdrawals? Does it add it to taxable account?
 
How does ORP work if you don't spend all the withdrawals? Does it add it to taxable account?

I believe ORP calculates your initial spending amount from data you enter and then provides it's scenario of which accounts will be depleted or added to (e.g., roth conversions) over the life of the simulation.
 
How does ORP work if you don't spend all the withdrawals? Does it add it to taxable account?

That's a good question. I suppose one workaround would be to leave a bigger estate when you go.

Unless you want to leave a big estate, it brings up the question... What is the money for anyway, if not to spend ?
 
How would you input IBonds into I-Orp? I just put it with IRA $. Definitely don't want to call it just taxable account since you have the un-taxed return of principal and not taxed by State tax where we have a 7% bracket.

I would think you would treat I-Bonds as a tIRA with a basis equal to the price of the bond.

e.g. Bonds worth $150k made up of principal of $120k and $30k interest is treated pretty much the same as a tIRA with a basis of $120k. However, unlike a tIRA you can choose which bonds to cash out to better control the taxable amount on each withdrawal.


I like your idea of a Wellesley style fund in a Roth, with all dividends going into a taxable account. 0% tax on those dividends, I believe, as they are simply treated as a Roth distribution.
 
I would think you would treat I-Bonds as a tIRA with a basis equal to the price of the bond.

As far as I know, ORP assumes zero basis for tIRA account balances -- valid for many situations, but not all. There is no input parameter for specifying basis.

We have some basis in our tIRA's, but it is insignificant.
 
As far as I know, ORP assumes zero basis for tIRA account balances -- valid for many situations, but not all. There is no input parameter for specifying basis.

We have some basis in our tIRA's, but it is insignificant.

I didn't know that. I guess I haven't played around with ORP enough.

We have a large basis in our tIRA's as our income was always too large for deductible contributions.
 
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