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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-17-2004, 09:58 AM   #21
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

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When I retired, I did it knowing that if my husband and all his assets disappeared, I could still make it on my own without going back to work. *That's what the FI in FIRE is all about.

Why should I be considered a semi-leech just because he still wants to work? *He's FI also (separately from me) so it's a matter of choice.
I guess you are ERd if you can make it on your own without your spouse. A working spouse may just give you more income or less expenses since you are sharing certain fixed costs, so working spouses serve as an increased comfort layer from a financial point of view.

The problem would be if you could ER on your own or ER with a working spouse, but could not ER with a non-working spouse since you not only have to support yourself, but also need to support your spouse. Some spouses may say, "Why should I go to work while you're doing whatever you want all day?" Although many here have spouses that have not realized the true concept of ER as the ERd spouse has, and prefer going to work than being ERd.
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-17-2004, 11:58 AM   #22
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

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Some spouses may say, "Why should I go to work while you're doing whatever you want all day?"
That's one reason why I worked part time for 2.5 years after retiring from the civil service (my wife wasn't eligible to retire until then).

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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-17-2004, 12:50 PM   #23
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

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That's one reason why I worked part time for 2.5 years after retiring from the civil service (my wife wasn't eligible to retire until then). * *
Prudent choice. The divorce court is today's "Great Equalizer", just as the Colt Peacemaker was to men of the old west.

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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-17-2004, 02:21 PM   #24
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

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Some spouses may say, "Why should I go to work while you're doing whatever you want all day?" *Although many here have spouses that have not realized the true concept of ER as the ERd spouse has, and prefer going to work than being ERd.

This is a discussion my wife and I had the other day. With just over 5 yrs left til I retire from the Air Force I was showing her spreadsheets of what the income would be today if I retired. Disposable income actually goes way up. She seemed pleased but I could tell she wasn't really into it. I asked her what she was thinking and she told me that she knew we were going to be fine because I was the planner and wouldn't mess us up. Although she can do the analysis and long term planning she knows that I really enjoy it. She would rather focus on taking things as they come. I need to learn this. Anyway

I then followed up with the question what are your concerns about me retiring? The answer was that you will be home all day.

I immediately followed up with my concerns:

1. Resentment that I am retired.
2. Jealousy of me traveling some.

On item 1 she immediately started laughing and said no worries and she would still have her life be volunteering and selling real estate until she got bored with it then she would join me. Just for me to still give her room.

As for item 2 the response was well you can't be gone 10 months a year. I countered with what about 9 months as she was also finishing my sentence. We had a good laugh and really discussed what I was thinking. Some solo trips and some with her and the kids. Once they are on school breaks of course.

All in all I think it is going to be ok. Looks like I will have one that wants to work for a while. That is ok with me


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Working whether it's necessary or not.
Old 10-17-2004, 04:18 PM   #25
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Working whether it's necessary or not.

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... she knew we were going to be fine because I was the planner and wouldn't mess us up.
I married one of those too. If she's seen some of my mistakes-- the ones that I've caught, anyway-- she wouldn't be so confident. I think what they're really saying is "I know you can go back to work until you get it right."

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I then followed up with the question what are your concerns about me retiring? *The answer was that you will be home all day.
Yeah, and she's fantasizing that you're going to spend it cleaning the kitchen, too, right? Or are you going to quit golfing when you hang up your uniform?!? Most days I spend more waking hours out of the house than in it. I'm starting to believe that a couple two-hour surf sessions a week is not enough.

It's possible that some spouses have found a career that they love. They're not thinking of ER because they don't feel like they're working. And even if that's not the case, I still think that it's important that a spouse work until (1) they're confident that they can support themselves if they have to and/or (2) that they have enough to support themselves if they're not working.

Frankly I think my spouse is still learning to turn it off. There are still a lot of those "I'm not looking for a job, but..." moments. Thankfully they're starting to come less frequently.
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Old 10-17-2004, 04:21 PM   #26
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Tomcat-Are You F-14 pilot?

If so, tell us about the rush.

Mikey
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-18-2004, 12:09 PM   #27
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

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I guess you are ERd if you can make it on your own without your spouse. A working spouse may just give you more income or less expenses since you are sharing certain fixed costs, so working spouses serve as an increased comfort layer from a financial point of view.
I considered myself ER'd when I was on my own with a plan to make it on my own assets. Now that I'm married and I've completely redone my asset allocations and financial planning to accommodate the fact that she's paying health care and most of the monthly bills, I consider myself a stay-at-home husband (and soon to be dad). Well, a stay-at-home husband with a dowry I guess

Isnt it more about what you are than what you could be?
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-18-2004, 12:15 PM   #28
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

Hey Mikey,

Not an F-14 guy. Actually and Air Force acquisition officer. Did spend some time jumping out of planes with 75lbs of gear as a way to get to work when I was a ground pounder back in my youth.

Nords I hear what you are saying about those not looking for a job but ... comments. I may have those myself. You have probably seen in some of my previous posts talking about retirement guidelines to help take some of the emotions out of the transition. I need to refine this one a little.
Notice I said guidelines not rules just in case I can't kick the habit cold turkey.

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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-21-2004, 10:46 AM   #29
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

I agree with TH. If you and your spouse could live without any earned income you are Financially Independent. If you actually live without any earned income you are Retired. If you do some sort of work that you like that makes less money than you would make in your old occupation you are Semi-retired.
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-21-2004, 12:14 PM   #30
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

We're really splitting hairs though.

I did it for a while successfully...would I have made it all the way on my own? Maybe. Maybe not.

But I know what I am now, and I dont have any problems with it. I dont feel leechlike since we live debt free in a nice house with nice cars and I'm paying all the capital costs while she pays expenses. The financial arrangement also lets her sock the max amount into her 403b and set aside 4-500 a month for after tax investing, so we're assuring she's got a heck of a nest egg when she retires.

Although sometimes when I call myself a house-husband she just looks at me and says "on a lot of days you make more money than me without getting out of bed!"
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-27-2004, 10:22 AM   #31
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

Let me get in on this with a slightly different perspective. I recently took a forced early retirement do to physical problems. My wife had some resentment, such as why should I work and you sit home all day. I suggested that she quit her job and we could get rid of some bills, such as going with one car, no cell phones, get on a budget, ect. Then as time wore on she got used to a meal ready when she got home, the house cleaned, and in general more time to do stuff, because the sit at home guy got most of everything done while she was at work. Now I think everything will work out well but it took some adjustments, on both our parts. Shredder
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-27-2004, 02:35 PM   #32
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

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Let me get in on this with a slightly different perspective. IThen as time wore on she got used to a meal ready when she got home, the house cleaned, and in general more time to do stuff, because the sit at home guy got most of everything done while she was at work. Now I think everything will work out well but it took some adjustments, on both our parts. Shredder
It's great that you do the cooking and cleaning. I work and my spouse is retired. He has always cooked. When we got married I said it wasn't in my job description. He tries to clean, but his version of clean is not the same as mine. A lot of my women friends say their husbands really don't know how to clean.
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-27-2004, 06:05 PM   #33
 
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

I am basically a house husband, and I know how to clean. Trust me! I'm about as fussy as they come.
However , I am also lazy. I don't expect my working spouse to handle it when I can just sit on my ass all
day if I so choose. As a result, things are never as clean as I would llike, but I am learning to live with it.

John Galt
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-27-2004, 06:28 PM   #34
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

I have an embarrassing story to tell about my cleaning skills. (And my tolerance for disorder) My wife moved out 5 years ago. Yesterday, for the first time, I decided it was time to clean the toilet. So I put the stuff in, swished it around, and nothing happened. It was still black. So I went back to the hardware store. The guy sold me some neoprene gauntlet gloves and a pumice stone. I completely used up the stone and had to go back to get another.

Finally the damn toilet is clean

Never again.

Mikey
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-27-2004, 06:48 PM   #35
 
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

Yes, Mikey that is an embarrassing story. Not sure we want to be privy to all of your secrets. Our heads can
only absorb so much information. Please consider
a movement back to the kind of crap we
usually discuss.

Thank you.

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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-27-2004, 07:09 PM   #36
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

ROFL.

I didnt clean my own house or cut my own lawn for ~10 years before I ER'd.

Sometimes I pine for the good ole days...

By the way Mike...Clorox makes these giant white "mints" you put in the toilet tank. They take about 3 months to wear out. Almost completely eliminates the need to scrub that bowl. Highly recommended.
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-27-2004, 10:36 PM   #37
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

I'm going to second the chlorox tablets in the tank, but I use the 1" chlorine tablets for spas, l left over from my last house with the pool. They work as well as the large ones, just have to add more frequently.
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-28-2004, 10:51 AM   #38
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

TH and KB- thanks for the tip. And John, I admit your comment was funny.

Mikey
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-28-2004, 02:06 PM   #39
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

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I'm going to second the chlorox tablets in the tank, but I use the 1" chlorine tablets for spas, l left over from my last house with the pool. They work as well as the large ones, just have to add more frequently.

GREAT idea...in fact I have a ton of those from the little blow up pool I have and they were going to take a hundred years to use them all up.

Those are probably cheaper too...they get $3-4 per 'mint' for the chlorox ones...and all the pool stuff is on clearance sale right now!
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement
Old 10-28-2004, 04:02 PM   #40
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Re: Working Wives & Retirement

Much cheaper, that's why I switched. Only you do have to replace about once a week.
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