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01-13-2020, 07:30 AM
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#1
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Gone but not forgotten
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Peru
Posts: 6,335
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World Debt increase
Interesting overview.
 Quote:
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The world's total debt surged by some $9 trillion in the first three quarters of 2019, according to data from the Institute of International Finance, bringing the world's total debt load to $253 trillion, or 322% of its GDP — a record high.
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https://www.axios.com/newsletters/ax...21914db99.html
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If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
--Dalai Lama XIV
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01-13-2020, 09:41 AM
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#2
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23,041
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I am uncertain how to think of this. It seems to me that the world is a closed system. Accordingly, for every debt, there is an offsetting credit somewhere.
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Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
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01-13-2020, 09:49 AM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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At what point does the debtor go bankrupt, and the creditor loses his money?
That's the $100 trillion dollar question.
PS. Can I avoid being the creditor?
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"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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01-13-2020, 11:12 AM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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No problem, just do a reverse split. A trillion is now a more manageable thousand. Of course, your IRA is now worth $0.32...
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Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
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01-13-2020, 11:16 AM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
I am uncertain how to think of this. It seems to me that the world is a closed system. Accordingly, for every debt, there is an offsetting credit somewhere.
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Was thinking the same thing. Who does the world (earth) owe this money to?
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-Big Dawg-FI since 9/2010. Failed ER in 2015. 2/15/2023=DONE! "Blow that dough"-Robbie
" People say I'm lazy, dreaming my life away Well, they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me When I tell them that I'm doing fine watching shadows on the wall "Don't you miss the big time, boy. You're no longer on the ball" -John Lennon-
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01-13-2020, 11:31 AM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdawg
Was thinking the same thing. Who does the world (earth) owe this money to?
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I think it works out as owed to the people of the future.
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01-13-2020, 12:00 PM
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#7
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayHare
I think it works out as owed to the people of the future.
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So the people from the present will owe money to people from the future? Do I get in my DeLorean, accelerate to 88 MPH, pay someone in the future and then return? Or if I stay in the future someone from the present will somehow pay me? Do we put $ in a trust fund now so future generations can have it? I paid my daughter in 1996 when she was 1 yr old. It has grown and she now has just shy of 50K in that account. She is grateful.
__________________
-Big Dawg-FI since 9/2010. Failed ER in 2015. 2/15/2023=DONE! "Blow that dough"-Robbie
" People say I'm lazy, dreaming my life away Well, they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me When I tell them that I'm doing fine watching shadows on the wall "Don't you miss the big time, boy. You're no longer on the ball" -John Lennon-
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01-13-2020, 12:09 PM
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayHare
I think it works out as owed to the people of the future.
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I think it works out that it is owed BY the people of the future. I guess they owe it to others in the future, so the circular reference continues.
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Every day when I open my eyes now it feels like a Saturday - David Gray
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01-13-2020, 12:22 PM
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#9
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North
Posts: 4,043
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Kinda crazy considering we paid off a bunch of debt in 2019. I guess everyone else is racking it up while we pay ours off ? 
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Time > $$$ ~ 100% equities ~ FIRE @2031
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01-13-2020, 12:28 PM
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 25,362
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I'm not looking forward to being thrown into Galactic Debtor's Prison with 7.7 billion of my closest friends.
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I thought growing old would take longer.
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01-13-2020, 12:31 PM
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#11
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,726
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A discussion about debt without mentioning assets is like being shocked at the amount of mortgage value but ignoring the value of the house. It’s an incomplete picture.
Credit-Suisse publishes a yearly report on global wealth, and it is data rich, a wonderful source to look at numbers and trends. https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-...th-report.html
They estimate global wealth to be US$ 361T.
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01-13-2020, 01:22 PM
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#12
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Syracuse
Posts: 3,502
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It is owed by us in the future. Not by some unknown number of future generations. Well, maybe one generation out on 30 year bonds. So just you, your kids, and maybe your grand kids.
I just bought some 5 year Treasuries. In 5 years part of my tax money will be used to redeem those bonds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry1
I think it works out that it is owed BY the people of the future. I guess they owe it to others in the future, so the circular reference continues.
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“No, not rich. I am a poor man with money, which is not the same thing"
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01-13-2020, 01:30 PM
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#13
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 661
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Its all fake. Money is printed from thin air. It has no backing. Its an arbitrary number. Actually, its a talking point to push an agenda by politicians. The US isnt paying someone or anyone back. Why would we. Just call up the fed reserve and print more money. Wake up. Some people need to pull the curtain back and do some real research.
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01-13-2020, 01:35 PM
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#14
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Louisville
Posts: 601
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It's not so much the debt you see today, it's the interest we pay on the debt today that impacts us. The interest payments are the fastest growing category of the US budget. As they grow, they begin to squeeze out other spending categories.
The old economics decision was between butter and guns. Now it's butter or guns with what's left over after the interest payment on the national debt.
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01-13-2020, 03:06 PM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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Send all your worthless money to me...
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Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
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01-13-2020, 06:59 PM
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#16
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister
I'm not looking forward to being thrown into Galactic Debtor's Prison with 7.7 billion of my closest friends.
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Come to think of it, it is likely there are more debtors than creditors. When push comes to shove, who is going to win?
I am going with the majority. It's always the safest place to be.
Now, how do I borrow money? Oh, it's already done on my behalf. All right!
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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01-13-2020, 10:31 PM
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#17
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 609
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$9 tril here, $9 tril there....pretty soon we'll be talking about real money.
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Saved 8 figures by my mid-40's as a professional bubble-spotter. Beware...the Fed creates bubble after bubble after bubble.
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01-14-2020, 05:32 AM
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#18
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,331
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According to modern monetary theory it all works out - until it doesn't.
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Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
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01-14-2020, 06:10 AM
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#19
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South central PA
Posts: 3,486
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The money is owed to other people in the present, to be paid in the future. If too many people default, then the creditors don't have any more money to loan. No one can borrow any more, the world freaks out. There is wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth, the stock market crashes. Then the government prints more and bails out the creditors, so that they can go back to loaning money. Cautiously at first, then more freely. The stock market recovers. 2008-2009. Again.
I'm no economist, so what do I know?
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01-14-2020, 08:56 AM
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#20
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
According to modern monetary theory it all works out - until it doesn't.
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Funny, though, for all the naysayers, we still seem to be doing it. We ‘re just calling it something else.
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Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
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