Worldwide Salaries Comparison

[dmpi]

Yes. Teachers have a powerful union. High on compensation, low on accountability...you know..for the children.

In our school district it cost $12,000/year per kid for K-12 grade. Judging by how smart some of the kids are, I question if we are really getting out what we put in. But I guess there is no real metric to measure school performance.

 

[barbarus]

To be fair to post-secondary educators, part of their salary is hazardous duty pay.
As long as psychos are mainstreamed, we will see an increasing occurrence of tragedies like the latest in Illinois.

 

[summer2007]

I hear on the local radio shows people calling in saying about teaching being dangerous.

But you know what I used to deliver pizzas for 5 bucks an hour and there is a lot of drivers being shot over 30 bucks but no one ever suggests paying them 100 grand. Most never even make the news!

I guess what I'm saying is there are a TON of minimum wage jobs out there that are way riskier than being a teacher.


Jim

 

[dmpi]

I hear on the local radio shows people calling in saying about teaching being dangerous.

But you know what I used to deliver pizzas for 5 bucks an hour and there is a lot of drivers being shot over 30 bucks but no one ever suggests paying them 100 grand. Most never even make the news!

I guess what I'm saying is there are a TON of minimum wage jobs out there that are way riskier than being a teacher.


Jim

From Forbes; 10 Most Dangerous Jobs & Death rate per 100K:

Fishermen 124/100K
Pilots & Flight Engr 88/100K
Loggers 82/100K
Iron and Steel Workers 61/100K
Refuse & Recyclable Material Collectors 42/100K
Farmer & Rancher 38/100K
Electical Power Line Worker 35/100K
Roofer 34/100K
Trucker and Mobile Sales People 27/100K
Agricultural Workers 22/100K

 

[chinaco]

Interesting.

Look at the difference in earnings for physicians.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

interesting to see which society places more value on which career. giving it all just a quick glance it seems either physician or airline pilot rise to the top of what that society considers most important.

in places like thailand & romania, pilots earn more than physicians & flight attendants make more than nurses while in others like australia and the u.s.a. physicians make more than pilots though in austalia flight attendants still make more than nurses.

though on second thought, i don't know if that strictly shows what a society thinks is important in itself or if it reflects the international character of an industry.

edit: in canada a wood grinder makes more than either a teacher, a nurse, a computer programer or a car mechanic. i have no idea what to make of that.

 

[ladelfina]

In Canada wood grinding is very important.


What's a wood grinder?

 

[StJohnsWood]

I guess things in the good ole US of A ain't as bad as some trying to get elected would make you believe.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

YouTube - Wood waste grinder

 

[haha]

Perhaps you end up with the same dilemma facing the public when trying to figure out what to pay politicians. If the pay is too low, the wealthy or those with other income sources may be more inclined to stay, than the person who is not wealthy but could be the best representative of his constituency.

Perhaps true. But the Clintons have certainly prospered as public servants. Many others too. If you can't get rich in politics you aren't trying.

Ha

 

[W2R]

Perhaps true. But the Clintons have certainly prospered as public servants. Many others too. If you can't get rich in politics you aren't trying.

Ha

Especially in Louisiana.

 

[haha]

In our school district it cost $12,000/year per kid for K-12 grade. Judging by how smart some of the kids are, I question if we are really getting out what we put in. But I guess there is no real metric to measure school performance.

How about reading, writing, and arithmetic?

Ha

 

[FinanceDude]

How about reading, writing, and arithmetic?Ha

Those areas have been "dumbed down" to the point of ridiculous...........

Of course, the teacher's union in WI is doing very important things, like lobbying to shut down virtual high schools that are taught my fellow union member teachers...........for fear that kids could get a good education without having to attend the school.........

 

[ziggy29]

How about reading, writing, and arithmetic?

That would work.

The real problem is that the default assumption is always that poor student performance means we aren't spending enough. Virtually every year the U.S. sets a record in inflation-adjusted education spending per student. The educrat lobby has us convinced that voting to tax ourselves more is "investing in our children" or some such, despite the fact that we've seen again and again that more money isn't helping.

At some point it would be nice to push back and say you don't get more money unless you can demonstrate that more money means better performance.

 

[ERD50]

interesting to see which society places more value on which career.

...

edit: in canada a wood grinder makes more than either a teacher, a nurse, a computer programer or a car mechanic. i have no idea what to make of that.

I don't think salaries are any indication of what 'value' society places on a job. It simply reflects the free market (with some exceptions where things interfere with that free market). If a wood grinder makes more than a nurse, it must be because companies need to pay more to attract wood grinders (unless there is some strong WG Union or something, I don't know).

I can't imagine how we would set salaries based on 'value'. Who is going to decide whether a fireman is more 'valuable' than a nurse? Does the fireman get a vote in that? I'd rather leave it to the free market.

-ERD50

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I guess things in the good ole US of A ain't as bad as some trying to get elected would make you believe.

Nope, we got it pretty damn good. At least I am thankful for my lot in life.

 

[FIREd]

Nope, we got it pretty damn good. At least I am thankful for my lot in life.

That was my thought exactly when I found that website...

 

[bearkeley]

Teachers

While I am certainly no expert on teachers salaries (although I did know some teachers when I was younger) according the to Virginia Department of Education Salary Survey the average teacher makes $50,000 in Virginia and the average pricipal makes $90,000 this puts Virginia right in the middle of the pack of states. Not quite the six figure job other posters were talking about but certainly a nice middle class existence for a two income house hold. Perhaps the $100,000 includes salary and benefits they do get decent health care, pension and leave benefits it could also be an annualized representation of the 8 month salary.

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Finance/Budget/2007-2008SalarySurvey.pdf

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

I don't think salaries are any indication of what 'value' society places on a job. It simply reflects the free market (with some exceptions where things interfere with that free market). If a wood grinder makes more than a nurse, it must be because companies need to pay more to attract wood grinders (unless there is some strong WG Union or something, I don't know).

I can't imagine how we would set salaries based on 'value'. Who is going to decide whether a fireman is more 'valuable' than a nurse? Does the fireman get a vote in that? I'd rather leave it to the free market.

-ERD50

actually they are indicative because the make-up of free markets which you credit as being the object in the mirror is itself determined by the values of those societies. so while the salaries might reflect the so-called free market, it is that free market which reflects basic values. even these values do not naturally spring from the earth; rather they are constructs manufactured in the mind. there is no more intrinsic value to any particular career than there is to any so-called precious metal, save what society ascribes to it. this might look real but this is all made up. just because something is what it is does not mean that it has to be or was meant to be that way.

the illusion in the mirror is the free market which has been constructed based upon values. we trade pork bellies instead of smiles. gold instead of sea shells. these are the values of capitalism out of which eminates the free market, a bit of a misnomer as i suspect this market a bit of a trap, but i editorialize.

if we did not so very highly value, say, medicine, likely caused by our aversion to pain but even more likely advanced by a fear of mortality, then doctors would not be much in demand and so they would not be able to command such high salaries. that market would not exist as it does were it not for our values. surgeons would be valued less than car mechanics in a society which worshipped less our bodies and more, as we almost do, our automobiles.

look at our own free market. who gets paid the most? is it the people who produce? or the brokers who "create" "value"? free markets are not the bones of society, they are merely the clothing. values are at the core of societies and they are reflected in all the mechanisms of trade.

 

[getrichslow]

actually they are indicative because the make-up of free markets which you credit as being the object in the mirror is itself determined by the values of those societies. so while the salaries might reflect the so-called free market, it is that free market which reflects basic values. even these values do not naturally spring from the earth; rather they are constructs manufactured in the mind. there is no more intrinsic value to any particular career than there is to any so-called precious metal, save what society ascribes to it. this might look real but this is all made up. just because something is what it is does not mean that it has to be or was meant to be that way.

the illusion in the mirror is the free market which has been constructed based upon values. we trade pork bellies instead of smiles. gold instead of sea shells. these are the values of capitalism out of which eminates the free market, a bit of a misnomer as i suspect this market a bit of a trap, but i editorialize.

if we did not so very highly value, say, medicine, likely caused by our aversion to pain but even more likely advanced by a fear of mortality, then doctors would not be much in demand and so they would not be able to command such high salaries. that market would not exist as it does were it not for our values. surgeons would be valued less than car mechanics in a society which worshipped less our bodies and more, as we almost do, our automobiles.

look at our own free market. who gets paid the most? is it the people who produce? or the brokers who "create" "value"? free markets are not the bones of society, they are merely the clothing. values are at the core of societies and they are reflected in all the mechanisms of trade.

I think you were my philosophy prof back in 87'! Did you ever give a dissertation on the moral implications to humanity of Kirk harming the "Rock Man" in the original Star Trek series?

 

[dumpster56]

I just love the teacher bashing that goes on here. 100K teacher salary, Ok if you taught for 40 years and have a PHD in the public schools in parts of NJ CT and NY yep near 100 K. Pensions, well as I stated before when I started teaching in 77 I had NO CHOICE but to be in the pension system and the state took out 5% of my salary every paycheck for 30 years. If people don't like teachers having pensions well get the laws changed. As we speak, the rules are changing even now after I have been retired, I now pay more for the healthcare that was in the deal. So I will take care of it by working some easy part time stuff. Don't get me started about how the kids cannot learn and the summer vacations. Parents need to look in the mirror. That is why many of their little darlings don't learn much. But look at the teacher salaries here in North Carolina... A first year teacher makes about 30K a year, 10 years about 40K 25 years 55K. No union. No thanks, I would not start a career in education just out of college in North Carolina. Pay for health care out of pocket for spouse and children. Again some of the reasons for the teacher shortage down here in NC. Teachers do not stay .

 

[ERD50]

actually they are indicative because the make-up of free markets which you credit as being the object in the mirror is itself determined by the values of those societies. so while the salaries might reflect the so-called free market, it is that free market which reflects basic values. ....

I see where you are coming from, but it also looks to me that you are ignoring the 'supply side' of that argument.

Take your Doctor example - it is not just that we value medicine, or our bodies. The supply side issue is that it takes a lot of smarts, dedication, time and money in school to become a Doctor. A relatively small % of the population is capable and motivated and interested enough in that line of work to pursue it. It takes a reasonably high compensation to get enough supply.

Some will argue that there are some non-free-market issues at work in Doctor supply. That may be true, and if so should be corrected IMO, but it is part of the current supply equation and it does explain why Doctors receive the compensation they do (which, all things considered, does not strike me as unreasonable anyhow).

Sea Shells versus Gold - supply issue again.

I'll counter that with a Renoir painting - just a couple bucks of canvas and oil paint, but we value it much higher than that. There's lots of canvas and oil paint, but very few Renoirs.

Another example - we all 'value' air, but because there is usually a good supply of it, we don't pay for it. If it is limited in supply (deep sea diving?), then we are willing to pay. Only difference is the supply, not the intrinsic value we place upon it.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Again some of the reasons for the teacher shortage down here in NC. Teachers do not stay .

Simple supply/demand. If NC cannot attract enough teachers (or any other job) they need to make the package more attractive (money and/or other things).

I refuse to make a 'value judgment' on someone else's salary, or the cost of any product. If they can get it (in a free market), then they deserve it. If they can't, they deserve that too.

What is the alternative to a free market? Someone in a government position sets wages for every job? That would be insane. If I need someone to dig a ditch, I need to be willing to pay whatever it takes to get someone to do the job. If the govt tells me that ditch diggers can only make $X/hour, and I can't get anyone to do the job for that, then where am I? Is that govt bureaucrat going to come dig the ditch for me? I think not.

What's the old expression? 'Capitalism is the worst system in the world - except for everything else'? Something like that?


-ERD50

 

[FIREd]

Don't get me started about how the kids cannot learn and the summer vacations. Parents need to look in the mirror. That is why many of their little darlings don't learn much.

I agree that parents are partly to blame for kid's poor performance in school.

But look at the teacher salaries here in North Carolina... A first year teacher makes about 30K a year, 10 years about 40K 25 years 55K. No union. No thanks, I would not start a career in education just out of college in North Carolina. Pay for health care out of pocket for spouse and children. Again some of the reasons for the teacher shortage down here in NC. Teachers do not stay .

When I lived in NC, I used to get so mad about the amount of money I had to pay in taxes to finance public schools! Yet it seemed to never be enough! If they don't use the money to pay teachers where does all the money go? I know that in wake county they probably use some of the money to buy new trailers for overcrowded schools and build new schools to keep up with population growth. I don't know, I always felt that in NC the level of service provided by the state and local governments (including public education) was lower than I would have expected to receive given the level of taxation at the state/local level.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

I think you were my philosophy prof back in 87'! Did you ever give a dissertation on the moral implications to humanity of Kirk harming the "Rock Man" in the original Star Trek series?

no but that would be my style. had you been my forth grade classmate you might have debated me on the infinite & why space is our final frontier, complete with bulletin board, table display and my model of the then pending apollo moon mission.

I see where you are coming from, but it also looks to me that you are ignoring the 'supply side' of that argument.

Take your Doctor example - it is not just that we value medicine, or our bodies. The supply side issue is that it takes a lot of smarts, dedication, time and money in school to become a Doctor. A relatively small % of the population is capable and motivated and interested enough in that line of work to pursue it. It takes a reasonably high compensation to get enough supply.

Some will argue that there are some non-free-market issues at work in Doctor supply. That may be true, and if so should be corrected IMO, but it is part of the current supply equation and it does explain why Doctors receive the compensation they do (which, all things considered, does not strike me as unreasonable anyhow).

Sea Shells versus Gold - supply issue again.

I'll counter that with a Renoir painting - just a couple bucks of canvas and oil paint, but we value it much higher than that. There's lots of canvas and oil paint, but very few Renoirs.

Another example - we all 'value' air, but because there is usually a good supply of it, we don't pay for it. If it is limited in supply (deep sea diving?), then we are willing to pay. Only difference is the supply, not the intrinsic value we place upon it.

-ERD50

sorry, no. not ignoring supply anything. i did not say that once an animal has been born that it does not take upon a life of its own but even then ancestral genes are traceable.

even your supply side reasoning still speaks to primal values rather than values spun off some economic system. just because not many people might want to be or even could be a doctor still gives no reason by itself as to why they get paid so much. you can argue supply and demand but, again, that emanates of a system derived from a certain set of values favoring, for one thing, greed over sharing as well as some worthy values. you can argue it is because they have to pay a few $100k for schooling and so therefore they get to charge a few $mm later but it is still the values which have set up the system which make that exchange viable.

another system's values might, say, pay for the doctor's schooling and then maybe high prices aren't quite so justified. or yet another society might highly value altruism and selflessness whereby people become doctors not for what they can get from society but rather for what they can offer society. they not only wouldn't be paid much but--more to the point--they would not accept much as they are only doing what they just happen to have a talent for and consider that their contribution to this shared society. consider doctors without borders; what is their profit margin?

sure, systems spin off secondary values, but it is the primary ones which set up that system of trade in the first place and i suspect they leave telltale signs in salaries of particular careers.

just what is the price of your renoir in a world where only the highest bidder gets to enjoy it privately? what does it say of the value of that system. now what is the price of that very same renoir where nobody gets to bid but instead it is placed in a museum where everyone can enjoy it for free? what does it say of the value of that system? capitalism is nothing more than a mirror of a set of values. i know how to live in that mirror but i do not care to be trapped there.