FANOFJESUS
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I am guessing that SAFECO is cheaper than Amica??
Worth it to switch insurers?
- Thread starter brewer12345
- Start date
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I have no idea if it's cheaper than any other plan. I purchase it though an insurance broker.
Here's my coverage and what I pay;
Dwelling $615,400
Other structures $61,540
Personal Property $430,780
Loss of Use 24 months
Liability $500,000 (I have another $500,000 umbrella)
Extended Dwelling Coverage $307,700
Premium is $1,966 a year. ( $164 a month)
I own the house outright, no mortgage.
I'm sure someone on here will let us know if that's a good price or not, but here's the thing; which is better; a cheaper premium but you have to fight for your collection, or what I experienced; an adjuster who showed up the next day with a check for $50,000 and told me to send him photos of progress and he'd keep sending me checks for $50,000 and let me know when the next-to-last check was sent.
BTW, I built this house for about $380,000 finished in 2007. The land it's on is 5 acres that appraised at $250,000 in 2006 when the fire happened by SAFECO's appraiser. It's probably not worth the full insured amount, but it's better to be over insured than under. The difference in premium isn't all that much.
Here's BIG advise;
Insure for the cost to replace the house. Not what the house is worth. I spent over $100,000 to clear the land, grade the property, dig the footings, etc. all before the first nail hit the first 2x4. Rebuilding is much more expensive than just a new construction. The good news on rebuilding on the same property was that my property taxes stayed the same under California's Prop 13 laws. Also, I didn't have to pay for permits again as this was a replacement house, not a new purchase and the permit fees had been paid with the original construction.
BTW, a 'BEFORE' photo
House done, before landscaping;
After the house and here I am working on the landscaping;
Here's my coverage and what I pay;
Dwelling $615,400
Other structures $61,540
Personal Property $430,780
Loss of Use 24 months
Liability $500,000 (I have another $500,000 umbrella)
Extended Dwelling Coverage $307,700
Premium is $1,966 a year. ( $164 a month)
I own the house outright, no mortgage.
I'm sure someone on here will let us know if that's a good price or not, but here's the thing; which is better; a cheaper premium but you have to fight for your collection, or what I experienced; an adjuster who showed up the next day with a check for $50,000 and told me to send him photos of progress and he'd keep sending me checks for $50,000 and let me know when the next-to-last check was sent.
BTW, I built this house for about $380,000 finished in 2007. The land it's on is 5 acres that appraised at $250,000 in 2006 when the fire happened by SAFECO's appraiser. It's probably not worth the full insured amount, but it's better to be over insured than under. The difference in premium isn't all that much.
Here's BIG advise;
Insure for the cost to replace the house. Not what the house is worth. I spent over $100,000 to clear the land, grade the property, dig the footings, etc. all before the first nail hit the first 2x4. Rebuilding is much more expensive than just a new construction. The good news on rebuilding on the same property was that my property taxes stayed the same under California's Prop 13 laws. Also, I didn't have to pay for permits again as this was a replacement house, not a new purchase and the permit fees had been paid with the original construction.
BTW, a 'BEFORE' photo
House done, before landscaping;
After the house and here I am working on the landscaping;
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Sarah in SC
Moderator Emeritus
Skip, your house is simply stunning!!!
Thanks very much for sharing the photos.
I have Safeco for auto, but they don't offer homeowners here. Good to hear you had such a great experience with them.
Again, beautiful home and landscaping!!
Thanks very much for sharing the photos.
I have Safeco for auto, but they don't offer homeowners here. Good to hear you had such a great experience with them.
Again, beautiful home and landscaping!!
brewer12345
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Awesome log cabin, Skip. Killing me. A log cabin in the woods is my ideal. DW and the kids are more wedded to suburbia and of course proximity to family is a big deal.
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SAFECO really came through on my lost autos too, Sarah. For example; I had a 1994 Mazda Navajo. (Same as the Ford Explorer Sport). When we had the fire, 2006, I had 2 sons in college and kept this around with full coverage for them when they came home to visit. SAFECO gave me over $4,000 for it. I looked up KBB and it was MAYBE $2500 tops. So I called them to find out why they gave me so much. (NOTE: be totally honest with your insurance company when filing claims or you will regret it. They can make things tough if you lie or cheat.) They replied by asking me questions;
1. Did you upgrade the radio or speakers
2. Add a trailer reciever?
3. Running boards?
4. Aftermarket wheels?
5. Driving lights?
Well, you get the idea. I told them yes, I had up graded those things. The agent told me that the car was covered and so were all the upgrades and any personal property I might have had in there. Stuff I had in the car was not taken out of the pot of money I had for the personal property in the house. See... they were doing everything they could to find ways to max out the limits of my policy including automatically adding any upgrades I had done to that 12 year old SUV.
Over and over SAFECO would find ways to max out my policies. Things I sure never would have thought of.
And thanks for the compliments on the house. We were contemplating not building anything, just taking the insurance money retiring right then and head to Hawaii for a year or two before deciding what to do. It's another story for another time as to why we chose to build and why it was a log-style home.
1. Did you upgrade the radio or speakers
2. Add a trailer reciever?
3. Running boards?
4. Aftermarket wheels?
5. Driving lights?
Well, you get the idea. I told them yes, I had up graded those things. The agent told me that the car was covered and so were all the upgrades and any personal property I might have had in there. Stuff I had in the car was not taken out of the pot of money I had for the personal property in the house. See... they were doing everything they could to find ways to max out the limits of my policy including automatically adding any upgrades I had done to that 12 year old SUV.
Over and over SAFECO would find ways to max out my policies. Things I sure never would have thought of.
And thanks for the compliments on the house. We were contemplating not building anything, just taking the insurance money retiring right then and head to Hawaii for a year or two before deciding what to do. It's another story for another time as to why we chose to build and why it was a log-style home.
ivinsfan
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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The burning to a pile of cinders possibility doesn't give you second thoughts? It sounds like a terrifying experience.
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
And since folks seem to like the photos of the cabin, here are a few more;
I bought a tractor to do all my own landscaping including installing the driveway. It was much cheaper than hiring it out.
My son and I stringing Christmas lights even though the house wasn't ready to move into yet:
Dining room. I built the hutch out of 125 year-old barn wood. The light fixtures were designed by me and constructed by a welder-artist in Montana I found on Etsy.
Master bedroom. I built this hearth because the little electric heater just didn't look right sitting on the carpet.
The mantle is a chunk of redwood driftwood I found up on the Lost Coast of California out of Shelter Cove.
Laundry room door. This is on the far side of the house where the guest bedrooms are. When the kids come to visit, they can use this as their own entrance and not wake us up if it's late. The bench is made of redwood that used to be a log flume during the gold rush days. I found this out in the woods while fishing a creek.
Small shelves in the master bedroom made from salvaged wood from our property;
Master bath has a shower of marble and a door instead of a window. Someday there will be a hot tub out there and I can just come and go between the tub and the bathroom.
The loft. It's where we watch TV. It is inspired by the Grand Ahwahnee Hotel in Yosemite.
That's the TV and my laptop I'm typing all this on;
More of the loft with a bear skin rug a co-worker gave me and a few of my guitars. I played a little before retiring, but now I get to play much more. Isn't retirement grand?!
I bought a tractor to do all my own landscaping including installing the driveway. It was much cheaper than hiring it out.
My son and I stringing Christmas lights even though the house wasn't ready to move into yet:
Dining room. I built the hutch out of 125 year-old barn wood. The light fixtures were designed by me and constructed by a welder-artist in Montana I found on Etsy.
Master bedroom. I built this hearth because the little electric heater just didn't look right sitting on the carpet.
The mantle is a chunk of redwood driftwood I found up on the Lost Coast of California out of Shelter Cove.
Laundry room door. This is on the far side of the house where the guest bedrooms are. When the kids come to visit, they can use this as their own entrance and not wake us up if it's late. The bench is made of redwood that used to be a log flume during the gold rush days. I found this out in the woods while fishing a creek.
Small shelves in the master bedroom made from salvaged wood from our property;
Master bath has a shower of marble and a door instead of a window. Someday there will be a hot tub out there and I can just come and go between the tub and the bathroom.
The loft. It's where we watch TV. It is inspired by the Grand Ahwahnee Hotel in Yosemite.
That's the TV and my laptop I'm typing all this on;
More of the loft with a bear skin rug a co-worker gave me and a few of my guitars. I played a little before retiring, but now I get to play much more. Isn't retirement grand?!
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Kitchen with the back splash made of slate tiles from an old farmstead's roof and the cabinets from salvaged lumber on our property.
The light fixtures are punched tin, rusted for patina I had made from scrap materials from the fire. I think it was the old chicken coop roof, but I don't really recall any more.
Guest bedroom 1. The snowshoes were my old ones from work I had and a co-worker refinished for a retirement gift.
Guest bedroom 2. It shares a wall with the laundry room, so I added a little more plumbing and stuck this sink in there I got from Home Depot.
The indoor laundry room. My wife is thrilled to not have to go into the cold garage to do laundry any more. The cabinets are from Home Depot, the tiles from a local Habitat For Humanity thrift store. The washer/drier were used from craigslist. They were natural gas and we are on propane so the seller sold them cheap. Cost maybe $20 to convert over to propane.
Since we lost everything, family came together and gave us stuff. This is DW's grandmother's china in the hutch I built from old barnwood.
I built this canoe bookcase from scraps of the house. I made it 9' tall because the first one I made at 8' tall looked too small next to the fireplace.
Fireplace. It's propane. The mantle is a piece of cypress I found down in Louisiana when my Guard Unit sent me down there after Katrina. It was at my dad's house so didn't burn up. The gun is a movie prop from the movie The Patriot with Mel Gibson.
And they lived happily ever after.
The light fixtures are punched tin, rusted for patina I had made from scrap materials from the fire. I think it was the old chicken coop roof, but I don't really recall any more.
Guest bedroom 1. The snowshoes were my old ones from work I had and a co-worker refinished for a retirement gift.
Guest bedroom 2. It shares a wall with the laundry room, so I added a little more plumbing and stuck this sink in there I got from Home Depot.
The indoor laundry room. My wife is thrilled to not have to go into the cold garage to do laundry any more. The cabinets are from Home Depot, the tiles from a local Habitat For Humanity thrift store. The washer/drier were used from craigslist. They were natural gas and we are on propane so the seller sold them cheap. Cost maybe $20 to convert over to propane.
Since we lost everything, family came together and gave us stuff. This is DW's grandmother's china in the hutch I built from old barnwood.
I built this canoe bookcase from scraps of the house. I made it 9' tall because the first one I made at 8' tall looked too small next to the fireplace.
Fireplace. It's propane. The mantle is a piece of cypress I found down in Louisiana when my Guard Unit sent me down there after Katrina. It was at my dad's house so didn't burn up. The gun is a movie prop from the movie The Patriot with Mel Gibson.
And they lived happily ever after.
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
The fire was arson. The BIG lesson we learned is that everything is temporary. Not one day goes by that we have a clue of what's about to take place. Any of us could get a phone call, smell smoke, a diagnosis from the doc, a distracted driver, and it's all gone. We are so grateful it was only stuff. That is a lesson; everything is only stuff. It's all replaceable. (Although at some expense of labor)
Since all the trees around the house are now gone, I was able to work with the local fire department, native plant society to set up a defensible zone around the house.
My wife had lots of apprehension to rebuild. We almost decided to just consider this a 'cash-out' and move to Hawaii. We kind of viewed it like this; what would you do if someone came up to you and said here's a bunch of cash if you would just walk out the door and never look back, never take a thing, just go.
When SAFECO explained that they would kick in an additional 20% of the house's covered value to pay for the labor to rebuild, along with the property taxes remaining the same due to Prop 13 (California), we figured we would build and then sell to maximize the insurance coverage.
Then, just as we finished the house at the end of 2007, the bottom fell out of the housing market. My new log home was now worth less than the original 25-year-old spec house we lost. We figured we would stay and see where the housing market went. It's still not fully recovered, but now we sort of bonded with the place.
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Sarah in SC
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks so much for the additional photos, and especially the backstory on so many of your items--I especially like the "found" wood pieces you featured throughout the house. Really, really cool.
And because we are nosy like that, was the arsonist prosecuted? I cannot imagine the feelings you must have overcome to rebuild there. We had a small ($10k) theft at our home while we were building, and it shook is pretty hard. What you went through was unimaginable, but I for one am glad you decided to rebuild, as your home is simply amazing!
And because we are nosy like that, was the arsonist prosecuted? I cannot imagine the feelings you must have overcome to rebuild there. We had a small ($10k) theft at our home while we were building, and it shook is pretty hard. What you went through was unimaginable, but I for one am glad you decided to rebuild, as your home is simply amazing!
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
The arson happened like this;
A woman was under the influence and driving a truck. She hit a motorcycle rider coming the other way, killing him. She fled the scene. In fleeing she was setting fires, 18 total fires over 6 miles, with her damaged truck. Her idea was that people would stop to fight the fires and quit trying to chase and stop her. One of the fires raced up the canyon to my place which was built on a ridge line. The fire 'crowned' into the tree canopy and was raining fire from all the embers. When the fire crowned, it raced through fast! Due to all the fires, there was confusion. With a medical emergency, fighting fires was secondary. By the time a fire truck got to my place, it was all over. Helicopters dropping water saved my neighbors, but mine was a total loss. Cal Fire set a ground crew at my place for 3 days and let it continue to burn out. This was to allow the debris to minimize so I wouldn't have a big clean-up bill. It was still big, just not as big as it would have been if they had put out the house fire. It was a total loss anyway.
She had lots of assets; 4 homes for example. Her lawyer dragged out the case, spending all her money on his fees before he had her plea guilty to gross vehicular manslaughter with special circumstances(DUI), arson of an occupied dwelling, arson of public and federal lands, along with a few charges of arson for outbuildings, fences and stuff other folks lost. She was sentenced to 11 years in prison. However, this took over 1 1/2 years before getting to this point. She spent that time in the local jail at the sheriff department. So now it's 9 1/2 years in federal prison. However, none of these crimes are considered 'violent offenses'. Meaning; up to 50% off for good behavior. 11 years is now 5 1/2 years. Of that time, she spent 1 1/2 years in jail, not prison. She spent 4 years in prison for killing a man out for a motorcycle ride and burning my house down with me and DW in it at the time. This was in July of 2006. She was released from prison in February of 2012. Over 3 years now she's been free. The criminal restitution order awarded me and DW over $680,000. We haven't seen but a few hundred dollars of that and probably never will. She's smart and knows how to hide her money. (Think O.J. Simpson and how he got away without paying restitution)
Here's the kicker; she was a sheriff.
A woman was under the influence and driving a truck. She hit a motorcycle rider coming the other way, killing him. She fled the scene. In fleeing she was setting fires, 18 total fires over 6 miles, with her damaged truck. Her idea was that people would stop to fight the fires and quit trying to chase and stop her. One of the fires raced up the canyon to my place which was built on a ridge line. The fire 'crowned' into the tree canopy and was raining fire from all the embers. When the fire crowned, it raced through fast! Due to all the fires, there was confusion. With a medical emergency, fighting fires was secondary. By the time a fire truck got to my place, it was all over. Helicopters dropping water saved my neighbors, but mine was a total loss. Cal Fire set a ground crew at my place for 3 days and let it continue to burn out. This was to allow the debris to minimize so I wouldn't have a big clean-up bill. It was still big, just not as big as it would have been if they had put out the house fire. It was a total loss anyway.
She had lots of assets; 4 homes for example. Her lawyer dragged out the case, spending all her money on his fees before he had her plea guilty to gross vehicular manslaughter with special circumstances(DUI), arson of an occupied dwelling, arson of public and federal lands, along with a few charges of arson for outbuildings, fences and stuff other folks lost. She was sentenced to 11 years in prison. However, this took over 1 1/2 years before getting to this point. She spent that time in the local jail at the sheriff department. So now it's 9 1/2 years in federal prison. However, none of these crimes are considered 'violent offenses'. Meaning; up to 50% off for good behavior. 11 years is now 5 1/2 years. Of that time, she spent 1 1/2 years in jail, not prison. She spent 4 years in prison for killing a man out for a motorcycle ride and burning my house down with me and DW in it at the time. This was in July of 2006. She was released from prison in February of 2012. Over 3 years now she's been free. The criminal restitution order awarded me and DW over $680,000. We haven't seen but a few hundred dollars of that and probably never will. She's smart and knows how to hide her money. (Think O.J. Simpson and how he got away without paying restitution)
Here's the kicker; she was a sheriff.
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skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I should add; the man on the motorcycle was Greg Shannon. He deserves to be remembered. He was 3 years older than me and had just retired from the same type of work I did; for the electric company. He was going to be told the next day that he was going to be a grandfather. When my sons came home to help us, our oldest brought along a sonogram. My first grandson. I rode motorcycles much like Greg did.
Greg's widow, Mary, made us the quilt at the foot of the bed in bedroom two.
As much as the fire was devastating to us, it absolutely breaks my heart to know that a good man, soon to be a grandpa, died because of a drunk and a drunk sheriff at that. And that his widow, ready to begin their lives as retired couple has been stolen from her.
Knowing of Mary's loss, how could I even begin to feel sorry for only suffering what amounted to just property damage?
Greg's widow, Mary, made us the quilt at the foot of the bed in bedroom two.
As much as the fire was devastating to us, it absolutely breaks my heart to know that a good man, soon to be a grandpa, died because of a drunk and a drunk sheriff at that. And that his widow, ready to begin their lives as retired couple has been stolen from her.
Knowing of Mary's loss, how could I even begin to feel sorry for only suffering what amounted to just property damage?
Sunset
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Incredible story and a wonderful house, with so many personal touches.
I notice you have what seems to be a large bench at the front, made from a log perhaps. How did you cut the bench pieces ?
I notice you have what seems to be a large bench at the front, made from a log perhaps. How did you cut the bench pieces ?
ivinsfan
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Wow, what incredible, sad, terrifying story. We have taken many road trips out to the desert Southwest and the isolation and location of some people's homes wouldn't be for me. Your house could just as easily been taken down by a lightening strike.The Utah/ New Mexico area seems to be really hard hit by some type of pine beetle.. killing pine trees and during a visit to to Cedar Breaks Nat Monument the guide told us,it's just a matter of time before this site goes down in a big ball of fire because of all these dead pine trees.
We drove a back road between the Nevada/Utah border that was hit by storms, mile after mile of blackened, burnt trees and nothing else left.
Your house is wonderful and I hope you enjoy for many years to come.
We drove a back road between the Nevada/Utah border that was hit by storms, mile after mile of blackened, burnt trees and nothing else left.
Your house is wonderful and I hope you enjoy for many years to come.
Delawaredave5
Full time employment: Posting here.
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I agree. I've found cable and other utilities will negotiate and price match.
But I've not found insurance companies to budge.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sarah in SC
Moderator Emeritus
Gosh, Skip, what a sad, sad story. You have an amazing perspective on your losses as compared to the man's widow and family. And you are right, you can rebuild a house and replace possessions, but never life itself. Thank you for sharing the story, though it must be painful to recount.
JoeWras
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Wow, that is a story.
skip: are you available for hire? Man you build a nice house!
On SAFECO, when my dad ran the car through his garage, they paid and fixed everything (car and garage) quickly and with no issues.
We recently changed from Big Company "SF" due to incredible price raises and bad service. Went to Amica. We'll see how that turns out. Been happy so far, but they are a bit pricey. Change from SF wasn't much different in price, but the service has been better. And I just talking service outside of a claim. Not sure how a claim will go but the word is Amica is pretty good.
skip: are you available for hire? Man you build a nice house!
On SAFECO, when my dad ran the car through his garage, they paid and fixed everything (car and garage) quickly and with no issues.
We recently changed from Big Company "SF" due to incredible price raises and bad service. Went to Amica. We'll see how that turns out. Been happy so far, but they are a bit pricey. Change from SF wasn't much different in price, but the service has been better. And I just talking service outside of a claim. Not sure how a claim will go but the word is Amica is pretty good.
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Did I say Federal prison? She went to state prison. The Feds were there as she burned some BLM land as part of the fires. I got a chance to speak with both the Federal and the state deputy district attorneys who were assigned to the case during the civil hearings after the criminal court case was completed.
Vehicular manslaughter can be charged as a misdemeanor (minor crime with a maximum punishment of a year in county jail or only a fine) or a felony (punishable by a term in state prison) depending on the circumstances. Gross negligence or driving a few miles over the speed limit might be charged as a misdemeanor, but drunk driving resulting in a fatality is most likely treated as a felony.
Felony Arson is the crime of willful and malicious burning of property, including buildings, structures, vehicles, or parks, forests and preserves, where the value of the property or the amount of the damage caused is over $500. If less than $500, the offense is a first degree misdemeanor.
In this instance she went to Central California Women's Facility, also known as Chowchilla Prison.
My information comes to me mainly from my court appointed victim's advocate, an employee of the district attorney's office. They tell me where she is, status of her release, where she is living, etc. I have a court order that she not contact me after her husband tried to get me to drop the restitution order. He says I should forgive her as it's the Christian thing to do and that she'll never be able to live a normal life with that high of a restitution order hanging over her. I told him that forgiveness doesn't negate responsibility. It's like this; let's say I fathered a child out of wedlock. God can forgive me for my sin but I'm still responsible to take financial action for the child. So it is with this woman; I can forgive her, so I can move on, but she needs to take responsibility and do what she can, to make at least an effort and show that she's taken the responsibility and try to reverse the damage she caused. In this case, she hasn't at all. Oh, well... I've got a life to live and I'm not going to waste a second of it trying to force her to make right. The last thing I need is a woman who twists this into me taking advantage of her. After all, look what a fine house I have now. Her mind can twist the restitution order into something that she could conceivably resent towards me and maybe get drunk and victimize us again. No, an ex-cop that spent time in prison on my account is not someone I want to ever have to go up against.
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Now that makes more sense. Convicts are given double time for good behavior in state prison. The Feds make you do day for day of your sentence. Of course, Federal prisons are usually a lot nicer than state prisons.
BTW...can I move in with you?
BTW...can I move in with you?
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Thanks for the compliment. I have the plans and given copies to a couple other folks. The hard part about building with logs is the engineering calculations. With dimensional lumber, it's easy to reconcile a load bearing on, say a 8x8 doug fir beam. It's not so easy on a Lodge Pole pine, 12" diameter that has been standing in the forest for 9 years after a fire. (My logs came from a Montana wild land fire where the logs were left to stand for 9 years before harvesting.) I've shown my home to many people over the past few years. Mostly to folks who either are either looking for recommendations for sub-contractors I hired or more importantly, I've volunteered as a advocate and offer to assist people who have lost their homes to fires. I have a photo album I put together and invite them over to take a look see for themselves what an insurance company should be providing as well as help them read their policy and put it into terms they can understand. I won't go into which companies are 'difficult' to process a claim through, but many are not as forthcoming with the policy provisions, making it the homeowner's responsibility to know what they are entitled to.
It's good to hear your dad has equal success with SAFECO too.
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skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Ha! After our home was completed, I had one of the young laborers stay here with us. He needed a place to stay and was polite. My sons didn't think so much of the idea. They thought we might be being taken advantage of. So, you'll have to get approval from the boys before I can take you in.
skipro33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
You are welcome, Sarah. The most painful part was that our dog, a yellow lab named Katie, didn't survive. She was older and the scene was chaotic. All the yellow smoke from the woods and grass fields burning made Katie blend in with her yellow color. She was old and when I yelled, she would go to her 'safe place' under my wife's desk where she had a pillow. There was lots of yelling and I think she sneaked back into the house and the door closed behind her. I realized she wasn't with us and headed back for her. My wife grabbed me and told me she was loosing everything we had together and she wasn't going to loose me too.
My wife was able to grab up our other dog, a pug mix, before driving off. Needless to say, Buttons is one spoiled dog!
Sarah in SC
Moderator Emeritus
Ok, finally, you made me cry, Skip. So sorry about Katie.
Buttons is adorable, and there is nothing quite like spoiling a little dog. Just ask my "giant Pomeranian" Biscuit, who is rotten, rotten, rotten! She has the same curved tail as Buttons, but just swathed in long black hair!
Buttons is adorable, and there is nothing quite like spoiling a little dog. Just ask my "giant Pomeranian" Biscuit, who is rotten, rotten, rotten! She has the same curved tail as Buttons, but just swathed in long black hair!
