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Old 08-23-2007, 04:28 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Helena View Post
Health insurance as we know it is less
than 70 years old... what did Americans
do for the first 160 years ?

Health insurance in this country does get one access to medical care to be proactive about health concerns. Which could help one to live longer and maintain quality of life.


On a separate note: Health insurance is about selling away the risk of financial ruin due to certain health related problems. If you have something to lose... you might consider protecting it.

On the other hand, if you have nothing and feel you are healthy... our system supports people just showing up at the emergency room at most hospitals for a "cost shifting" freebie. Plus there are a variety of charitable clinics.

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Old 08-23-2007, 04:39 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by vino View Post
Hai,

I am Vino. I am Newbie to here.
Not sure of your background. But You might consider finding some job, any job that has health insurance. Larger companies are more likely to tolerate you if you are having a health problem. Heck for that matter Starbucks is supposed to have a good health plan. I am not sure of the COBRA rules (how long you have to be employed to qualify), but you can usually use it for 18 months after employment stops.

You need to get to a doctor.
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Old 08-23-2007, 04:47 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by chinaco View Post
Not sure of your background. But You might consider finding some job, any job that has health insurance. Larger companies are more likely to tolerate you if you are having a health problem. Heck for that matter Starbucks is supposed to have a good health plan. I am not sure of the COBRA rules (how long you have to be employed to qualify), but you can usually use it for 18 months after employment stops.

You need to get to a doctor.
Hai,

I am Vino.

Thanks ya. Thanks for your Informations.
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Old 08-23-2007, 04:53 AM   #44
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Hai,

I am Vino.

Thanks ya. Thanks for your Informations.
:confused:
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Old 08-23-2007, 05:09 AM   #45
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:confused:
Hai,

Its ok. Anyhave thanks for your openion
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Old 08-23-2007, 12:44 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Enuff2Eat View Post
i talked to a friend of a family from CANADA and i am started to think National Health Care in the US is NOT gonna work either.

She told me the corruption, abuse, misuse, ... are unbelievable. For example, everyone REFUSED to buy of-the-shelf pills like tylenol, advid... why, just because if they go to the doctor they get it prescribe and for free. she also mentioned that a headache, a stupid cough people would go the emergency room, again free...

don't know the details but i can imagine the abuse going on there, also she mentioned doctor there prescribed drugs to patients that are not really sick then these people take the drugs and send it to someone else for a fee or for free...

bla, bla,... i am just worry about health insurance caused i heard number 2 bankruptcy in the US is related to illness.

enuff
First, I think you should get data from more than one family before you formulate an opinion about Canada's medical system. I think it's a reasonable system for basic medical care, but has some problems delivering some of the necessary higher-end procedures (e.g. MRI's, joint replacements, that kind of thing). In these cases there are unacceptable wait lists in some areas. There is serious talk of supplementing the system with private insurance component similar to what has has been done in much of Europe.

As for the drug abuse situation you describe, this same thing happens plenty in the US. Remember, that 45 million Americans are uninsured. That means 255 million have some sort of coverage. Many of them abuse their insurance in just the way you describe, raising the cost for everyone. This is not a problem just with a socialized medicine system.

Although malpractice insurance may not be the direct cause of much of the overpricing in the US, I think it's effect is more pervasive. A lot of unnecessary tests and procedures are ordered to cover the doctor's @ss that may not have been required in a less sue-happy society.

I remember back (about 15 years ago) when I was commercial fishing and I got fish-slime poisoning in my thumb. It requires antibiotics or it won't go away. I went to the doctor, basically said "see, I have fish slime poisoning, I need antibiotics." The doctor took a sterile needle, a bowl, lanced it, squeezed out the puss, gave me a $10 prescription, and charged me $150.

$90 visit
$40 "procedure"
$10 "sterile implement"
$10 antibiotic

So I got charged for the person, what the person did, and what they did it with simultaneously. All I really needed was the antibiotic and instructions to soak it and squeeze out the puss (which I already knew). I didn't even get a rebate for providing them the diagnosis!

I complained at the front desk about the billing and stated that I would only agree if the insurance company didn't complain. The insurance company didn't even blink at the charges....
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Old 08-23-2007, 12:54 PM   #47
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I remember back (about 15 years ago) when I was commercial fishing and I got fish-slime poisoning in my thumb. It requires antibiotics or it won't go away. I went to the doctor, basically said "see, I have fish slime poisoning, I need antibiotics." The doctor took a sterile needle, a bowl, lanced it, squeezed out the puss, gave me a $10 prescription, and charged me $150.

$90 visit
$40 "procedure"
$10 "sterile implement"
$10 antibiotic
Yep! And that was 15 years ago.

If the same situation happens in a place outside of the USA, you'd most likely go the neighborhood pharmacy, show your finger to the pharmacist. He would then sell you the antibiotics and show you how to use it. Total cost about $5.
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Old 08-23-2007, 03:05 PM   #48
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To answer the thread question. Yes, and we did. Medical insurance is just that, Insurance against the cost of a possible intensely expensive treatment that we hope we'll never need. I appreciate the various choices from excellent "covers everything" plans with relatively low deductibles and copays to the less costly high deductible plans that trade less cost for more risk, but in good "healthy" years pay off significantly.

I'm not much of a gambler, DW and I budget about 10k per year for a plan that limits our out of pocket extras to $20 per visit and $10 per 3 month supply of any prescription.

That outlay is significant, but clearly part of the entire ER/FIRE process, just like having a paid for house or a plan for autos/major appliances, etc. We determined that we could meet our expenses (including Health Care at the level we chose) with the ER income we could expect to achieve. Until we achieved the magic number we agreed was "enough" I would have to continue in the work force. Thankfully, I've joined DW in FIRE now for about a 18 months now, and we're doing fine only living slightly beyond our means LOL.

The last few years I spent down at the plant, I covered us both with health coverage, but there was nothing free about it. It cost what it cost, we never saw it as a decision to opt out and pocket the money. The cost did rise over time as well, no surprise there.When I finally ER'd the cobra was not very attractive, but they did offer group plans that we could continue on, with no lapse in coverage and no opportunity for the HMO to screen us, or deny us coverage. We choose the most attractive plan, and here we are. Now that we're thinking of moving North for a better climate, more space, etc, we'll have to reshop.

I expect the cost to increase over time, part of life, I budget an increase of about 2000 per year, we'll see what happens.
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Old 08-23-2007, 04:57 PM   #49
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Well stated.
Although, the Illegal alien part is huge also. There are 12MM of them. That is a population of 6-7% of the total. Not minor. This is made up just to show an example: If the avg cost for each one of them costs the govt and hospital, doctors, medical community $2000 (unpaid bill or freebie) That is $24 B. Think about the cost of a mother going to the hospital for a pregnancy (very expensive). Or an accident or injury. The cost is the GDP of many countries.
And most of those end of life cases will apply to that 12MM of non-tax paying Illegals. You cannot deport someone in extremely bad health (near the end of life).
I disagree. Not only not a huge burden, but probably a net positive for you and the U.S. in genreal.

#1 Those immigrants work in the U.S.
You have alread benefited from their work, by having lower costs to the goods and services you get in the U.S. They lower consumer prices, cheap labor of course, has this effect. Who do you think puts them to work? Oh yes, U.S. Businesses. They profit from it, and you do too, and the GDP goes up, and U.S. tax revenue goes up, and yes, when those dirt poor, broken-down immigrants are done being used up, you want to kill them and/or kick them out? Unethical by any standard I'd say.

#2 As if that wasn't enough, many (most?) already pay taxes. Employers pay 1/2 their med/ss tax. They pay sales tax. They pay sin taxes. They spend their money in our economy. Taxes go to fund health care overages. So even if we allow the unethical approach to slave labor and the killing of those slaves...those slaves pay to some degree, for their own care. Yet it's still suggested that it's some horrible thing? I don't follow. Why is it even on the care-about list.

#3 I say let's use that $20B we just got for selling arms to our on-and-off again enemies to help the poor U.S. laborers who are here illegally, working for us. It's not like they broke into your house and stole your stuff, they broke in, repaired it, and left you more money than you had when they broke in.

U.S. set to offer $20 billion arms deal to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states - International Herald Tribune


-Mach
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