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Old 03-21-2009, 09:45 AM   #21
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Hopefully it's already started and it will take hold. The mainstream has lived beyond their means for far too long, it's at the root of our current economic problems. My fear is that memories will fade and the mainstream will go back to their (way) over-leveraged tendencies...but I hope I am completely wrong.
Well, now that we've watched history unfold, if you're not wrong and the markets start roaring back fueled with zero to negative savings rates again and expanding credit, GET OUT!
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:46 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Running_Man View Post
Once upon a time you dressed so fine
You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you ?
People'd call, say, "Beware doll, you're bound to fall"
You thought they were all kiddin' you
You used to laugh about
Everybody that was hangin' out
Now you don't talk so loud
Now you don't seem so proud
About having to be scrounging for your next meal.

How does it feel
How does it feel
To be without a home
Like a complete unknown
Like a rolling stone ?

Your daughter's gone to the finest school all right, Miss Lonely
But you know you only used to get juiced in it
And nobody has ever taught you how to live on the street
And now you find out you're gonna have to get used to it
You said you'd never compromise
With the mystery tramp, but know you realize
He's not selling any alibis
As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
And say do you want to make a deal?

How does it feel
How does it feel
To be on your own
With no direction home
Like a complete unknown
Like a rolling stone ?
I always liked Dylan's music, but looking deeply at the words makes one realize that at a young age this guy was old. By playing the enigma, he never put all his cards on the table, sort of kept you guessing. He apparently knew the game before the average person even started to play it.

Amazing, wonder how much money he lost in the Ponzi scheme (Wall street)

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Old 03-21-2009, 10:52 AM   #23
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I think that many of us would have had different priorities if making $750K/year. Maybe we would give a higher priority to having a substantial emergency fund than to start-up costs for a new business. Instead, the guy took a huge chance on a new business and it didn't pan out.
I had a senior position at a global mega corp. I was surprised - and unprepared - for the pressure to spend. Intense peer pressure from all around - including HR. House, cars, toys, kids colleges - indescribable. And unbelievable.

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Many who make that kind of money also make it a priority to prepare for the worst, just in case - - paying off the house and loans, setting up trust funds, and such. Frankly, some would think it incredibly stupid not to do so.
My experience showed this to be a sign that the person was not "part of the team". The corporate world looks for people that depend on continued employment and need every penny of the variable income (aka bonus). If not, they really can't be counted on. This is only more so at senior levels.
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Amazing
Old 03-21-2009, 11:12 AM   #24
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Amazing

I can't even imagine making $750,000 per year and being in debt. I mean how much stuff do you really need? I don't begrudge anyone who wants to work hard the right to make a lot of money and spend it anyway they want, but my god, 95% of the people on this Board could have probably been comfortably retired at his age (45 I think) had they had his income stream since he graduated from Business School. I am not sure that I would say I feel sorry for this guy---he made years and years of foolish choices, and it was clear based on how he spoke, his educational background, and his profession, he was no dummy. Poor, poor judgement.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:39 AM   #25
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I can't even imagine making $750,000 per year and being in debt.
It's more common than you'd ever believe. I've heard a rumor that Goldman Sachs is making low cost loans available to employees to bridge them over last year's cut in bonuses.

Naturally a lot of this is driven by overconfident, self-important, blow hards who think they are worth the money they make and always will be. The good times will never end. And besides, everyone in their circle spends the way they do, so it all seems normal . . . and to a certain extent, necessary.

But at the same time, "Wall Street" employees typically work in areas where the cost of living is so high as to be unimaginable to ordinary Americans. To say that "I would be set for life on $x00,000 per year" is not at all certain. Especially when you're required to work 80+ hours per week to pull down that paycheck. The idea of adding a 2-4hr round-trip commute to the lower cost x-urbs on top of your normal 12 hour day is simply unworkable. So you get a place in the city (NY), where the MEDIAN price for a condo is $1MM ($500K for a studio!!!!). But then you have kids, and the public schools here all blow. So you send them to private school for ~$30K per year a piece. Etc, etc, etc. The money goes fast.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:51 AM   #26
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It's more common than you'd ever believe. I've heard a rumor that Goldman Sachs is making low cost loans available to employees to bridge them over last year's cut in bonuses.

Naturally a lot of this is driven by overconfident, self-important, blow hards who think they are worth the money they make and always will be. The good times will never end. And besides, everyone in their circle spends the way they do, so it all seems normal . . . and to a certain extent, necessary.

But at the same time, "Wall Street" employees typically work in areas where the cost of living is so high as to be unimaginable to ordinary Americans. To say that "I would be set for life on $x00,000 per year" is not at all certain. Especially when you're required to work 80+ hours per week to pull down that paycheck. The idea of adding a 2-4hr round-trip commute to the lower cost x-urbs on top of your normal 12 hour day is simply unworkable. So you get a place in the city (NY), where the MEDIAN price for a condo is $1MM ($500K for a studio!!!!). But then you have kids, and the public schools here all blow. So you send them to private school for ~$30K per year a piece. Etc, etc, etc. The money goes fast.
Understand--but this gentleman and his family reside in Tampa, FL. My guess is that $500K in Tampa gets you a pretty decent house, in a pretty decent neighborhood. I also would not be surprised if Tampa has a few good local, public (read "free") school Districts. Also, I am not certain how your total number of hours work have anything to do with this---if I worked 1 hour a year and made $750,000 or 4000 hours per year and made the same thing, its still a boatload of money. So, I am pretty certain that on $750K per year in Tampa, with two kids, I would be ok (atleast based on how I live my life now).
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:57 AM   #27
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Someone already has...........

The Karpmans are now on food stamps and a tight budget that doesn't nearly cover their children's $30,000 private school tuition. But thanks to an anonymous donor, the Karpmans children's tuition has been covered through next year and they are deeply appreciative
That is sad.

It just goes to show - marketing and advertising does work some times.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:43 PM   #28
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Understand--but this gentleman and his family reside in Tampa, FL. My guess is that $500K in Tampa gets you a pretty decent house, in a pretty decent neighborhood. I also would not be surprised if Tampa has a few good local, public (read "free") school Districts.
Agreed. I wasn't talking specifically about this guy, but aimed my comments more generally. My second paragraph also applies.

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Also, I am not certain how your total number of hours work have anything to do with this.
My point there is that if you work a "normal" 40-50 hours per week, commuting 2 hours from low cost neighborhoods is an option. When you work 8 AM to 9 PM six and seven days per week, that commute isn't really possible (or at least tolerable if you can afford to avoid it). So in a sense, you're forced into high cost housing.
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:54 PM   #29
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.


My point there is that if you work a "normal" 40-50 hours per week, commuting 2 hours from low cost neighborhoods is an option. When you work 8 AM to 9 PM six and seven days per week, that commute isn't really possible (or at least tolerable if you can afford to avoid it). So in a sense, you're forced into high cost housing.
Point well taken
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:03 PM   #30
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Understand--but this gentleman and his family reside in Tampa, FL. My guess is that $500K in Tampa gets you a pretty decent house, in a pretty decent neighborhood. I also would not be surprised if Tampa has a few good local, public (read "free") school Districts. Also, I am not certain how your total number of hours work have anything to do with this---if I worked 1 hour a year and made $750,000 or 4000 hours per year and made the same thing, its still a boatload of money. So, I am pretty certain that on $750K per year in Tampa, with two kids, I would be ok (atleast based on how I live my life now).
It's all in your last line. You are judging based on your circumstances, not his. Many people look at what they don't have but others do - not what they have but other's don't. This is almost a Greek tragedy. The fatal flaw - greed - is clear and open, simple steps could be taken to avoid the tragedy, yet it still happens.
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:08 PM   #31
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Did I miss something or was there no word of Mrs. Karpman getting off her tush and getting a job to help with the bills.
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:16 PM   #32
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This guy isn't much different. Although he went through a divorce and started a business that went bust. Before he started the business he tapped into his home equity to help pay for his kids college. It doesn't sound like he was too business savy either.

Moving on: Diary of a busted boomer - Reinventing America- msnbc.com

It's strange how people can get MBAs and manage money for others and be so irresponsible with their own finances.
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:19 PM   #33
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I was going to post about this story, but im glad y'all got to it already!

I dont want to judge the guy one way or another (but c'mon....500k savings isnt enough for that lifestyle and that income level). BUT, the media is a joke for making this out to be this way. Instead, Suze Orman should've done the story with a 20 minute segment on saving and living well within your means. THAT wouldve been a productive AND headline catching story. Oh well....
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:24 PM   #34
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:35 PM   #35
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Did I miss something or was there no word of Mrs. Karpman getting off her tush and getting a job to help with the bills.
Hey, Mrs. K. has been keeping quite busy counting her handbags and finding clothing to wear that she "hadn't touched in years." She should work too? Besides, it isn't her fault, she told Mr. K. not to leave that high-paying trading job. Poor Mrs. K.!

They are both delusional--not for their previous lifestyle necessarily, but for not quickly adapting to the change in their circumstances.
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:36 PM   #36
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I'm sure we could all criticize certain aspects of this man's spending. The big house, the private schools, etc., etc. What I see is the "need" to have it all.

Personally, we spent (maybe not 30K) a lot on private schools and then moved to a different school district to give our kids the best education we could afford. But, we compromised on the housing and many other things. Any one thing may not be a "killer".

We always told our kids that (in life) you can do anything you want. You just can't do everything you want. Trite perhaps, but I've heard them spout it back to each other when they didn't know I was listening. So far, at least 2 of the 3 are sort of living that way. Not too sure about that third one. Hope he doesn't have to go through what this family has in order to (hopefully) learn what this family has learned.

I say, God bless 'em. Sounds like maybe they "get it" now. At least the man is willing to w*rk and not sit and pine for the good old days.

I would be shocked, but wouldn't it be great if the same "news" organization got back with these folks a year or two from now to see how they are doing?
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:44 PM   #37
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I say, God bless 'em. Sounds like maybe they "get it" now. At least the man is willing to w*rk and not sit and pine for the good old days.
I'll agree with you once they drop the $30K in tuition before taking food stamps. Kind of reminds me of Reagan's "Welfare Queen".
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:24 PM   #38
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I'm sure we could all criticize certain aspects of this man's spending. The big house, the private schools, etc., etc. What I see is the "need" to have it all.

Personally, we spent (maybe not 30K) a lot on private schools and then moved to a different school district to give our kids the best education we could afford. But, we compromised on the housing and many other things. Any one thing may not be a "killer".

We always told our kids that (in life) you can do anything you want. You just can't do everything you want. Trite perhaps, but I've heard them spout it back to each other when they didn't know I was listening. So far, at least 2 of the 3 are sort of living that way. Not too sure about that third one. Hope he doesn't have to go through what this family has in order to (hopefully) learn what this family has learned.

I say, God bless 'em. Sounds like maybe they "get it" now. At least the man is willing to w*rk and not sit and pine for the good old days.

I would be shocked, but wouldn't it be great if the same "news" organization got back with these folks a year or two from now to see how they are doing?


punahoe??
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:33 PM   #39
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I read the article, and regarding a question from someone up-thread about Mrs. getting a job and helping out, my guess is as soon as she can line up Mr.'s replacement, she's out of there. Honestly, I feel very sorry for the guy. He made a mistake with the hedge fund, but he was trying. Now, he is trying to keep his family from starving by doing honest work. I wish him the very best going forward, and hopefully he will have learned something from this mess. While I hate to admit this, I can see how this happened with the pressures to "live up" to the income.
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:55 PM   #40
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punahoe??
Actually, not Punahou although that is a truly outstanding school from what I am told. I could never have afforded it.

It was when we resided on the mainland. Found a very academically advanced (and caring) parochial school for K - 8. We then moved to a school district which had a high school with excellent credentials in college prep, drama, sports and art. Never regretted it and worth every penny, even though our local public schools had relatively good reputations. This was our special "gift" to our kids. We never lavished other gifts on them. No car, no video games, no $1000 bikes, etc. And, yes. They complained about our choices - for a while. I think it's beginning to pay off - even in their minds. We'll see.
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