WSJ article - It's time to rethink the bucket-list

[btdt22]

This article has to be the winner of the 'BS' article of the year. Although I don't have an actual bucket list, I love traveling. In the past three years my DW and I have crisscrossed the US three times, and traveled to Turkey, China, and Russia.

Not only do we not brag to our friends and relatives of what we have done but we have also traveled with family on several of the trips.

Our priority at age 69 is trying to visit those places that mandate the longest flight time. This fall is Egypt, with next year being a return trip to Australia, and a month or so on the 'great-loop' in our boat.

Life is short....enjoy it while you still can

[foxfirev5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LitGal Despite an insatiable appetite for travel (and love of adventure), I was recently surprised by a much stronger desire: pouring time and attention into my new (and only, so far) grandchild. DH and his lovely wife brought Dear Little Granddaughter into the world in January. DH and I never had a daughter. Relations with my own mother have always been strained; but-- growing up---- I was extremely close to my own grandmother.........who became (for me) the model of all "grandmother-hood." The bucket list said I wanted to teach overseas some day. Just last month I had an offer to teach English for six weeks of summer school in China. Have turned it down, for now. Despite my current busy-ness with moving to a condo, what REALLY beckons is that dear little baby napping just 15 min. away from my new neighborhood. As a working parent throughout my son's growing years, I rarely had open spans of time to just enjoy life hanging out with him on his schedule. Now--- retired--- time can be more open. I don't intend to become the child care provider, but will babysit sometimes for DS's nights out with his DW, and have offered to be their back up sitter when little granddaughter has to stay home from childcare if she is sick. Years of reading, baking cookies, feeding birds, walking in the park------ "quantity" of time sometimes really does supersede "quality" crammed-in moments. ER bought me time: first, to enjoy a couple years with DH before he passed; time for DH and I to enjoy DS's engagement and wedding plans; and now, time to try to be for my granddaughter what my dear grandmother was to me. I may only get 11 or 12 years, before those middle-school years kick in. Then she might not want to hang out with Grandma. (Though I did up through age 18, when my family moved 3,000 miles away; but I still went back East to see her every two years.) I still look forward to at least a couple 2-3 week vacations each year, with friends. But the rest of the year does seem to glow on the horizon.......with the adventure of learning how to be a good Grandma!

Nice priorities

[NW-Bound]

From the article:

Quote:

As a therapist, I’ve talked to numerous seniors as both patients and colleagues. Rather than feeling exhilarated by a life of bucket-list adventures, they often end up feeling depressed and disconnected... She and her husband spent several months and considerable treasure each year after retirement traveling to a bucket list of exotic locales, but found themselves feeling increasingly alienated from family and friends who did not share in their adventures. Their children complained that they seemed more interested in spending time with itinerant acquaintances than with their grandchildren.

Ha!

I suggest that this psychiatrist's patients are a bunch of unhappy geezers who would be unhappy whether they travel or not. Some people do not bond with their children or grandchildren, even if they do not set foot outside of town.

Travel or not travel, happiness or unhappiness, close relation with kinship or not, these have little to do with one another.

[Teacher Terry]

I think his sample size has biased his views) We travel but don't post pics on facebook. Those close to us know we travel but it is no big deal. Some of our friends do and some don't. It is fun to make friends from other places. WE don't have grandchildren but even if we did I don't think I would spend that much time with them. I spent lots of quality time with my own kids and now want to go out and have fun. We do some volunteer work, etc but it is not as exciting as taking a trip. I think balance is the key. If you are feeling that disconnected from family & friends either you are bragging too much or never home. I have known people that keep 2 homes and still are connected to many people. Like others have said balance is the key.

[Focus]

Most surprising is what's left unsaid about the chart used to show that those 65+ are happier. Look at previous years and how much happier some were then!

Eyeballing it:

48% of the 65+ were very happy in 1984 (vs. 37% in 2014)
42% of the 50-64 were very happy in 1984 (vs. 32% in 2014)

[wyecrabber1]

I found the reader's comments more interesting than the article, for example;


reader's comment
Just as the police officer's professional contacts lead him to excessively bleak generalizations about human nature, I suspect Dr. Agronin's professional contacts lead him to an erroneous generalization from a very biased sample. Retirees who are having the times of their lives pursuing a bucket list with some sense of moderation and balance (as my wife and I are) are the very last to be seeking the services of a geriatric psychiatrist.

[haha]

I don't understand the obsession with what "makes us happy". It's pretty clear, you feel happy, you are happy. You don't feel happy, you aren't. At least at that particular time.

Also, I believe that the idea that we are happy if we want to be, etc., is generally false. People can make better or less good adjustments to important adversities, but a painful or debilitating chronic illness for example is not likely to cheer anyone up.

What I definitely believe is that we had better grab what happiness offers itself to us, because these offers may not stay on the table long.

"Gather ye rosebuds while ye may, old time is still a-flying
And this same flower that smiles today, tomorrow will be dying..."

Ha

[daylatedollarshort]

We did dial down our original travel plans for somewhat the same reasons in the article. Instead we're doing a lot of smaller outings like plays, museums, dinners out and winery tours (the many small pleasures model), and working more on joining clubs and looking for ways to give back and be part of our community. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to spend retirement, but we gave it some thought and for us this is what we think will work out best for now.

[Major Tom]

Concerning the couple in the article who "found themselves feeling increasingly alienated from family and friends who did not share in their adventures" - perhaps it was because they became huge bores by talking about little else other than their travels when seeing family and friends? It sounds to me like they are not doing it right.

[Souschef]

It is a very interesting discussion. I think the operative word is balance. The interaction between the things you want to do and the interaction with friends and family.
My wife and I have discussed this. She is very family oriented, and I have learned to be.
That being said, I will be flying a B-25 next month, and a MIG-15 in September. I am 77 years old and am not slowing down. But other than that, I am enjoying the time we spend with our families.

[Fedup]

Thank goodness I don't have grand kids yet. I'm not sure I look forward to being a grandma either. My husband and I like comfort when we travel, you won't see us doing Machu Pichu nor the Amazon anytime soon. But we both have lived overseas in a few places so there is no deep urge to travel to unusual places. I would like to do more travel within USA. The only thing that I like better than travel is gardening, so after the first year, the traveling will be a few weeks and not a few months.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[Jpg1717]

LitGal: Thank you for sharing a great post. I am looking forward to being a " Grand Dad" for the first time next year. My twin daughters were 10 when I married their Mom. I wish I could have known them earlier, but I am looking forward to knowing my grandchildren from birth, and being able to be a part of their early childhood years that I missed with our twin daughters.Although we will still take a few long trips every year, and live close to the grandkids the rest of the year - do everything in Moderation and have fun "trying to have it all"

[NW-Bound]

Unless one is a perpetual traveler and has no home, I do not see how a few weeks or even a few months of travel a year will cause them to "lose track of what really matters—their connections to family, friends and community" and to become "devoid of any enduring communion with family or friends". What do they do the other 9 months that they do not travel?

So, if the patients of this psychiatrist stop travel, will they bond more with their family? Will they follow their grandchildren everywhere, and entertain them each afternoon after school? Is that even desirable and a healthy thing to do?

[check6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souschef That being said, I will be flying a B-25 next month, and a MIG-15 in September..

The Mig ride should be very exciting. Chuck Yeager was still flying F-15's in his 80's.

Read your blog about your Swiss travels. Wengen is my all time fav place. Had to chuckle about your toilet paper search. When I met my wife-to-be the first place I took her was Wengen. She questioned why I had several rolls of American toilet paper stashed in my rollaboard.

Fly Safe & Check 6

[r2021t]

......Oh, that bucket-list. I thought I was going to have to re-think my investment strategy.............

[wyecrabber1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedup Thank goodness I don't have grand kids yet. I'm not sure I look forward to being a grandma either. My husband and I like comfort when we travel, you won't see us doing Machu Pichu nor the Amazon anytime soon. But we both have lived overseas in a few places so there is no deep urge to travel to unusual places. I would like to do more travel within USA. The only thing that I like better than travel is gardening, so after the first year, the traveling will be a few weeks and not a few months. Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

There's only one thing wrong with being a grandfather -- it means you sleep with a grandmother. Fortunately, for me -- grandmom is very cute.

[athena53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LitGal Despite an insatiable appetite for travel (and love of adventure), I was recently surprised by a much stronger desire: pouring time and attention into my new (and only, so far) grandchild.

I can relate- our granddaughter turns 2 next month! They live 3 hours away but we see them every couple of months. In a way it's a good distance; I've still got plenty of room to have a life separate from them but it's not too far away.

DH and I have been avid travelers together since we met almost 20 years ago. Australia and NZ are still on my bucket list, but when I retired 2 years ago DH was already 77 (I was 61) and long-haul flights are hard on him. Even in Business Class we would have been rolling the dice and taking the chance he'd end up with a nasty respiratory problem that might have spoiled the trip for him and would take months of recovery. t's happened before. We're learning to adapt; he's more careful with hand sanitizer, we fly Business Class, we stay in one place rather than moving from city to city, we make sure we have a big enough hotel room that DH can relax after sightseeing while I go off in search of more adventure.

So, that means only one major trip per year, but we'd cheerfully agreed even before I retired that we wouldn't travel a lot more even if money were no object. One major trip per year, plus a few road trips, is enough punctuation in an everyday life spent in a house we love, without too much on our schedules.

[sengsational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadEnuff One day he confided in me that all he got out of it was "a lot of discomfort"..

My Dad, who traveled a lot, used to say "If you want all of the comforts of home, stay there."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souschef ... I will be flying a B-25 next month, and a MIG-15 in September. I am 77 years old and am not slowing down. But other than that, I am enjoying the time we spend with our families.

Flying that jet sounds cool, but I'm not to the point in my life where I'm going to spend $170/minute on any experience.

[nun]

Well WSJ and a therapist......I don't have much admiration for either and I'll keep my bucket list - thanks. Last year's item was riding my bicycle solo across the USA and Canada. It was a fantastic experience and the next one is to complete a ride around Iceland that I failed at about 5 years ago.

[imoldernu]

Instead of a wordy recap, this old post recaps our happiness formula.http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ml#post1214044