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Old 02-14-2015, 09:16 AM   #21
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personally in 25 years and most of it on line i never had any reason to be concerned.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:04 AM   #22
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Fidelity does not care about their customers IMO. They find it too difficult to enable Hardware Token protection on 401k accounts.
That is a bit like saying that parents do not care about their children because they don't protect them from everything that could harm them when they're off on their own. They provide less security that many of us customers would prefer, but that doesn't translate into a categorical "not caring" about their customers.

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And their index funds charge higher fees than Vanguard or Schwab.
I've compared Fidelity to Schwab. The difference is marginal. Vanguard is supposed to have lower fees than both Fidelity and Schwab - they don't offer their customers local investor centers - does that mean that Vanguard doesn't care about their customers?
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:07 AM   #23
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good point . we go to the local seminars here and they are excellent. i hope to go much more often once we finally retire in july.

we have accounts at both vanguard and fidelity but 90% of our money is now with fidelity.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:19 AM   #24
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in my opinion to much time is spent fighting over which is better over returns no one really gets and even if you do get exactly that return a better tax strategy can offset any difference again.
If an investor pays higher costs/fees, his return will be lower than it would otherwise be. We can adopt better or more "lazy" tax strategies, rebalancing, try to time the market, etc, etc, but the expenses paid will always diminish the bottom line.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:23 AM   #25
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IMHO, Vanguard's real competition is Schwab. Some of their ETF's are almost free. And they have local offices one can visit if one needs help filling out the form to transfer funds from a high fee institution.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:36 AM   #26
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Good question. Yes fidelity protects brokerage account but if you have 401k managed by Fidelity accessible via 401k.com that site is not protected by hardware key. (Even if you own Fidelity Brokerage Account with Hardware protection).
Vanguard doesn't offer a hardware key, period, 401k or not. If you have 401k managed by Vanguard, do you get the text message 2-factor security option?
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:36 AM   #27
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That is a bit like saying that parents do not care about their children because they don't protect them from everything that could harm them when they're off on their own. They provide less security that many of us customers would prefer, but that doesn't translate into a categorical "not caring" about their customers.
You are right. I just had a bad experience with 401k account and Fidelity when asking about Hardware key.

That is in spite of having with them 401k of size that makes Platinum Customer with E*Trade. That tells me if I have that type of sizable Brokerage Account with them I will get same "I don't care" treatment.

I am sure they also have very happy customers.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:37 AM   #28
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Vanguard doesn't offer a hardware key, period, 401k or not. If you have 401k managed by Vanguard, do you get the text message 2-factor security option?
That is why I would buy Vanguard or Schwab ETFs using E*Trade or Schwab account.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:52 AM   #29
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Any idea why they refused to help you switch to similar Fidelity funds?
I think it was the reasons mentioned, rep laziness, plus the company's disinterest in earning from fund sales. Presumably Fido earns more via other avenues so devotes more effort there.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:58 AM   #30
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A huge number of iShares ETFs are commision free at Fidelity. Some of these ETFs are very low cost.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:17 PM   #31
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I don't get the Fidelity bashing that seems to be coming out in some of the posts. I have holdings at both firms, but I think Vanguard has a long way to go in offering one stop shopping and customer service like Fidelity does.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:21 PM   #32
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A huge number of iShares ETFs are commision free at Fidelity. Some of these ETFs are very low cost.
100 Lowest Expense Ratio ETFs ? Cheapest ETFs | ETF Database
This table is literally ruled by Vanguard and Schwab.

The cost of iShares ETFs is substantially bigger then cost of Schwab and Vanguard.

IE S&P 500 for 4 cents on 100 dollars versus 7 cents on 100 dollars.
And Schwab gives you commission free trading on those cheaper ETFs.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:49 PM   #33
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I used to wish that Vanguard had a debit card but then I realized I'm probably safer with having to physically move assets to my local bank to spend money. It provides an extra firewall to reduce the risk I have to straighten out a major hack on my accounts. There's only so much damage that can be done when my bank holds an almost trivial amount of my assets at any one time. Theoretically, I have no liability at either institution but the shock to my system would be orders of magnitude different.

I have a credit card I use for on line purchases and another I use for direct bill debits. I've never had an issue with the direct debit card but I have an issue about once per year with the on line card.
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:08 PM   #34
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I used to wish that Vanguard had a debit card but then I realized I'm probably safer with having to physically move assets to my local bank to spend money. It provides an extra firewall to reduce the risk I have to straighten out a major hack on my accounts. There's only so much damage that can be done when my bank holds an almost trivial amount of my assets at any one time. Theoretically, I have no liability at either institution but the shock to my system would be orders of magnitude different.

I have a credit card I use for on line purchases and another I use for direct bill debits. I've never had an issue with the direct debit card but I have an issue about once per year with the on line card.
Even at Fidelity I have a debit card on a separate bank-type account.
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:24 PM   #35
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100 Lowest Expense Ratio ETFs ? Cheapest ETFs | ETF Database
This table is literally ruled by Vanguard and Schwab.

The cost of iShares ETFs is substantially bigger then cost of Schwab and Vanguard.

IE S&P 500 for 4 cents on 100 dollars versus 7 cents on 100 dollars.
And Schwab gives you commission free trading on those cheaper ETFs.
I see iShare ETFs in that list like AGG with ER of 0.08% which is commision free at Fidelity. So my earlier point about some iShares ETFs stands. I didn't make any claim about more cheaper ETFs vs. anyone else or anything.

Great link though. And if I end up investing a large chunk in ETFs, I'll probably move the funds to invest to a Schwab account, especially as I am interested in their Investor Checking offering.
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:12 PM   #36
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I don't get the Fidelity bashing that seems to be coming out in some of the posts. I have holdings at both firms, but I think Vanguard has a long way to go in offering one stop shopping and customer service like Fidelity does.
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No comparison in customer service, quality of web resources and breadth of service. Fidelity wins going away.
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:59 PM   #37
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If anything, go to Fido for FBIOX.....

Shall I say it.....

WHEEEE!

ooops! Now its doomed....never mind...
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:25 PM   #38
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If an investor pays higher costs/fees, his return will be lower than it would otherwise be. We can adopt better or more "lazy" tax strategies, rebalancing, try to time the market, etc, etc, but the expenses paid will always diminish the bottom line.
If you're comparing higher fees for buying an active fund vs. picking the stocks yourself, sure. But that isn't the argument - it's whether active funds including fees outperform low cost indexes over the long term. Your bottom line will be higher with an outperforming fund.

As mathjak said, you can pick a variety of Fidelity funds that have done so vs. the S&P over decades. I hold two of them, Growth Company and Contrafund. But the majority of what I have is in indexes, both Fidelity 401k and Vanguard. I'm about half and half between the two and that's ok for me.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:52 PM   #39
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I used to wish that Vanguard had a debit card but then I realized I'm probably safer with having to physically move assets to my local bank to spend money. It provides an extra firewall to reduce the risk I have to straighten out a major hack on my accounts. There's only so much damage that can be done when my bank holds an almost trivial amount of my assets at any one time. Theoretically, I have no liability at either institution but the shock to my system would be orders of magnitude different.

I have a credit card I use for on line purchases and another I use for direct bill debits. I've never had an issue with the direct debit card but I have an issue about once per year with the on line card.


I will say that the shock to your system can be quite large.... one time I logged onto my Vanguard account and the balance came up as ZERO... thought I was going to have a heart attack.... logged out and logged back on and the same... called and was told they were doing some updates ... saw all my funds the next day... but it was a pretty big OMG moment....
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:19 PM   #40
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We have more assets in index funds at Fidelity than we have at Vanguard. I just don't care for Fidelity's web site. It has too much junk related to trading and research which are just noise to me. I just don't care for any Fidelity insight or commentary since it is all financial porn.

If one wanted to find out the index mutual funds that Fidelity has, one simply cannot get right to them. They are hidden away. For instance, what is the ticker symbol of the Fidelity Freedom Index 2030 fund? Sure, I can get the ticker if I type in the full name, but what if I just search "index funds" at fidelity.com? No Freedom Index funds are mentioned on the landing page for that.

Vanguard has its problems, too, so Vanguard is not immune from sub par performance, but I will say that most of its white papers and insight articles pretty much speak to the indexing choir, so everything from Vanguard stays on message. Can't say that for Fidelity.
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