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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-08-2004, 09:57 PM   #221
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

I realize this is dory36's board, and he's free to give somebody the boot on a whim, so the right to free speech doesn't apply here. But ***** seems no worse to me than any street-corner preacher and just as easy to ignore.

I would find any sort of "speech cleansing" or outright ban much more offensive than an occasional boring monologue.

Bring us your obnoxious, your verbose, your tired worn-out cliche-mongers.... This is Virtual America after all.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 02:37 AM   #222
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

I have not put up any thread-starters on this question sinced I began posting to this site.

I do not participate in SWR threads that do not bring up the question of the analytic validity or lack thereof of the conventional methodology studies. People who retain confidence in the conventional methodology studies have a right to engage in discussions about it without having to be exposed to Great SWR Debate type questions each time they do.

The only SWR threads in which I have posted are ones which bring up the question of analytic validity in some way. The question posed at the beginning of this thread did that. The question asked was: "Should we be worried?" My answer is, yes, we should be very worried. Not for the precise reason that the poster putting up the thread-starter had in mind. We should be worried because of data we have seen that shows the conventional methodology findings to be every bit as much in error as the Yahoo Quiz claims.

This thread sets forth a JWR1945 finding that the historical data reveals that the best stock allocation at today's valuation levels is zero. This finding is a direct contradiction a the conventional methodology finding that the optimal allocation is 74 percent stocks. Both claims are the product of analysis of the same data. It is not possible that both claims are equally valid. Seeing that the two findings are so far apart tells us that one of the researchers got something wrong.

People who use this board as an information resource have a right to expect that this matter be brought to resolution. People are going to suffer severe life setbacks if we do not go to the trouble to get this right.

Intercst has provided the download of the JWR1945 material from his website. I think it would be a good thing if he were to write an article about the JWR1945 findings, explaining how JWR1945 arrived at this numbers and explaining why he (intercst) thinks they are wrong.

An article about the JWR1945 findings on the front page of the intercst web site will cause more people to download the material. Those people may be able to help us as they will be coming to this from a fresh perspective. At any rate, the article will surely be read. If we have learned nothing else, we have learned that the community's desire to know more about SWRs is intense; no threads generate the level of participation as these ones do.

The community has a logic and a will and a heart of its own, separate from the logic and will and heart of any of its posters. The community has done important work over the course of the past two years. The work product we have produced is extraordinary. We are doing well, despite whatever little pothills we have encountered on our journey. We should keep on doing what we do.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 07:46 AM   #223
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

***** writes,

I have not put up any thread-starters on this question sinced I began posting to this site.

I do not participate in SWR threads that do not bring up the question of the analytic validity or lack thereof of the conventional methodology studies. People who retain confidence in the conventional methodology studies have a right to engage in discussions about it without having to be exposed to Great SWR Debate type questions each time they do.

<5 paragrahs of the same>

The community has a logic and a will and a heart of its own, separate from the logic and will and heart of any of its posters. The community has done important work over the course of the past two years. The work product we have produced is extraordinary. We are doing well, despite whatever little pothills we have encountered on our journey. We should keep on doing what we do.

</snip>


This is your second warning *****.

This post is again way too long and contains nothing of value to this forum. You continue to be disrespectful of your audience's time and patience.

Are you trying to go 3 for 3 and add this forum to the list of places you're not welcome?

In response to your request about being reinstated at the Motley Fool board, I conducted a poll of the members of that forum to see if there was any support for your reinstatement. A full year after your departure people are still seathing at your long, windy posts and disrespectful antics.

The vote was three to one against your return.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=20801227

intercst
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 08:03 AM   #224
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

This is your second warning *****.

Please don't spend any more time on additional "warnings," intercst. Send Dory36 an e-mail expressing your concerns. There is certainly no harm done in requesting Dory36's input on the matter.



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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 11:46 AM   #225
 
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

I thought of the perfect name for *****'s Grand new investment plan.

Call it Market Timing - then everybody will know what you mean!
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 12:28 PM   #226
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Yep he's a market timer. So what? Is this place about one and only one "right" way to invest or live in ER? I happen to agree with ***** on the following points:

- Our "SWR" is in fact a historic SWR and bears no guarantee to a future "safe" withdrawal rate.
- There are times when one might not want to be fully invested in stocks or when one may want to buy more based on feelings of relative valuations.

Both highly arguable, but I sure enjoy seeing the argument take place. Otherwise I have to wonder what other arguments have been supressed or will be supressed.

Had I not exited the market in early 2000 due to what I considered excessively high valuations, I would still be working today and for a good 10-15 more years. Yep, screw that market timing thing.

Let me ask you folks a simple question: Why arent you buying long term bonds right now? Why dig into the short term corporates when the longer ones give you better yield? But wait...I know the answer...because we "know" interest rates will go up soon and the bond prices will take a beating.

Welcome to the world of market timing. Now go wash up.

The message I got when I first came here was really interesting...buy and hold, index funds, balanced indexes, etc etc...but dont buy this, this and this now because...

"Free speech" as Wabmester says, is a construction that legally only the government need abide by. However its with great courage and maturity that we embrace it throughout.

With regards to this, I found the most recent "disrespectful" post by ***** to contain nothing "disrespectful". In fact it appeared to be a perfectly fine explanatory post of his position. In none of his posts do I see name calling, intentional bad behavior or any intent to do anything except offer an alternative line of thinking.

With rare exceptions, the vast majority of "intercst" posts here appear to consist of calling ***** names and threatening him.

Wow is that constructive and useful to the community...

Jihad is ugly. Vendettas are uglier.

Dory36 will be getting a message from me. Just to be up front with its contents, I'm asking that any talk of banning any member who is simply making their own case be dismissed. I'm also asking that intercst be removed as a moderator because I find his name calling, threats and general conduct to be far below what is considered reasonable for a community moderator.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 01:43 PM   #227
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Basically, I agree with TH.

Personally, I find ***** long winded, repetitive, dull
and wrong. But, I think he has a right to say his say just as I have the right to tune him out.

Cheers,

Charlie
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 02:14 PM   #228
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Quote:

Personally, I find ***** long winded, repetitive, dull
and wrong. But, I think he has a right to say his say just as I have the right to tune him out.
I agree with Chuck-Lyn.

As a frequent lurker and occasional participator, I'm not quite sure why intercst has a bee in his bonnet about *****, but viewed from the sidelines it seems childish and rather pointless.

Peter
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 02:38 PM   #229
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Try tolerating YEARS of this nonsense and see how charitable you feel then. I'm not exaggerating.

Yes, ***** has insulted people, or at least alienated them. At the Motley Fool, had called me "goofy" for posting about the realities of writing and marketing a non-fiction book. He has also taken offense to the fact that I did not want him to use any of my postings on the Fool for a chapter in his book Since I did not know how much he was using or to what extent (because I couldn't imagine writing about someone's story without actually TALKING to them as part of the research), I did warn him about copyright infringement issues and he got really huffy.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 03:01 PM   #230
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Just to add my 2 cents, I agree with those who support *****' access to this forum. I think He is unfailingly polite, and seems to be kindly motivated. He may also be afflicted with a tendency toward overinflating the significance of certain ideas and his personal contribution to them.

I think it might be this factor which at times annoys various posters. I know it has annoyed me. My personal explanation for this annoyance is that ***** exposes to me my own grandiose feelings. Many of us may have similar feelings from time to time. But in our society adults are usually supposed to conceal this sort of thing.

By way of confession, I have used this and other boards as free, low risk venues for me to try to improve my character and personality. One of my many faults is a tendency to try to straighten out others "mistaken" ideas. This I fear is why I no longer am blessed with a live-in wife. You guys would laugh if you knew how many posts I have deleted, sometimes with a real feeling of loss, when I was sure that it was just what someone needed (usually to prove him wrong and me right).

The truth is, everone here is here by virtue of a fair amount of smarts, and more than a little ability to keep focus. I can learn from everyone here, and I have. But as a lifelong a-hole, it can be a road as hard as that of a reformed drinker.

Another thing that may contribute to anti-***** feeling is that there is a very strong basic belief on this and many other boards that market timing is futile. And, as many have pointed out, ***** is a proponent of a certain type of market timing. The prejudice against market timing may be well founded, but at longer time horizons I think that it is far from being a settled matter.

After all, if Robert Shiller can become the Stanley Resor Professor of Economics at Yale, based mainly on his studies of valuation/future return correlations in various markets, at least some sophisticated people give it credence.

That is enough for me! I would rather read 100 things to find 1 useful thing, than to be denied that opportunity.


Mikey
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 03:02 PM   #231
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

I did warn him about copyright infringement issues and he got really huffy.

I have written a book on how to achieve financial independence early in life that is titled "Passion Saving." The manuscript is now complete, and I am in the process of looking for an agent to shop it to publishers.

Chapter Seven deals with the problem that some middle-class workers experience of feeling that they got into the wrong line of work starting out, wanting to make a shift, but feeling that the financial price of doing so is too great. This chapter is titled "The Woman Who Hoped Not to Be Promoted." I got the idea for the title from thinking about a post put up by ChocoKitty in which she noted that she was up for a promotion to partner at her law firm but not too excited about the idea because the even longer hours that might be required might interfere with her desire to enjoy other aspects of life.

I made note of the chapter title in a post during the time when the Great SWR Debate was raging at the Motley Fool board. ChocoKitty threatened to sue me. Other posters jumped in, saying that was a great idea. There was talk of a class action suit. There was a discussion of the possibility of her entire law firm getting involved on a pro bono (no fee) basis.

At one point ChocoKitty put up a post noting that she understood from her legal training that using a story told in a discussion board post as inspiration for a chapter title is not a violation of any existing statute. I said that, given her understanding of this reality, I found the entire line of discussion to be "goofy." I still hold to that opinion.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 03:23 PM   #232
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

I never threatened to sue you and you know that. I simply said that you should get your permissions forms squared away before you proceed and I don't take to intellectual property violations kindly (because, uh, I'm an intellectual property lawyer).

And you never indicated that it was just a title. You had said that you had an entire chapter named after me, which implied that you were planning on using the posts I had written when I was considering turning down a promotion and writing a story about that.

But what the hell, people can wade through all the nonsense themselves and come up with their own conclusions:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?m...whole#19002553

I still have no clue what sparked this reaction:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19003289

Whatever.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 04:12 PM   #233
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

When I worked in a psychiatric setting I was on a treatment team consisting of physicians and other professionals. We always had one or two patients who behaved in a "passive-aggressive" manner. These folks consumed countless hours of our time. They irritated and frustrated others in countless small ways, but always stayed within the boundaries of socially acceptable behavior. They tended to be indirectly manipulative and would needle and prod their target repeatedly; always knowing what buttons to push. They tried to get the targeted person to explode. The passive-aggressive patient almost never crossed the line. They were usually very subtle, and almost ingratiatingly polite on the surface. When their target reacted in anger, the passive-aggressive patient would feign innocence and place the target into a position where it was almost impossible to explain why they reacted so strongly. They came off sounding petty and childish, which is just what the passive-aggressive patient intended. To the uninvolved observer, it often appeared that the person who blew up was overreacting, and the person behaving in a passive-aggressive style was a "victim." There was nothing more difficult than dealing with these folks, and I can recall adding up the hourly pay of all the people sitting around the table with me and thinking, "There's over $1000/hour worth of experienced and highly trained brain power sitting here trying to outmaneuver this passive-aggressive patient with a 6th grade education, and we're stumped".

There's a long history here, and I think ***** knows how to push intercst's buttons. And look where he has us; we've all been set-up to take sides - either for him or against him. Meanwhile, he sits back seemingly enjoying the show. He even interjects comments as his fate on this board is debated. He has made himself THE big issue and seems to relish that role. And he has done all of this in the past, so he clearly understands the damage it causes, yet he continues to do it anyway. I don't believe he operates here in good faith. I've seen this type of thing played out a hundred times, and this has all the markings of a game-player at work.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 04:23 PM   #234
 
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Once again Bob_Smith has hit the nail on the head and described exactly what was going on here! I think it must be that good old Midwest Iowa Logic!

If ***** was really looking for a SWR discussion, He would have answered my simple question and moved on to another topic. But instead he baits us into asking him questions that he will not answer.



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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 04:27 PM   #235
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Just to be clear, I'm not supporting *****, but his right to express his differing opinion. In any way he chooses to express it. As long as he's not calling people names, saying things I wouldnt want a 14 year old to see, or doing anything illegal or immoral.

All psychiatric analyses aside, intercst and others have to read the content that upsets them, then they have to consent to having their buttons pushed.

Then they have to decide how they react to it.

Name calling and threats are the lowest reaction level.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-09-2004, 05:34 PM   #236
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Jeez Louise, folks! I go away for just a short while and you all get crazy on me!

Personally, I think that when a thread becomes a meta discussion, discussing more about the participants and discussion itself than the topic of the thread, it's time to just drop the subject.

It is also pretty unfair to those NOT in the discussion to make them wade through many pages of stuf to find material related to the topic title.

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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-10-2004, 04:57 AM   #237
 
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Well said Dory, and brief, thankfully,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If you have nothing to say, at least keep it short.

John Galt
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"Here is a link to a post f
Old 06-10-2004, 05:47 AM   #238
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"Here is a link to a post f

Here is a link to a post from ES (site owner at NoFeeBoards.com) announcing the reinstatement of my posting privileges.

http://www.nofeeboards.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2586

Here is a link to a thread-starter that I offered at the SWR Research Group this morning on the subject of “Normalization of SWR Discussions.”

http://www.nofeeboards.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2589

Please do not offer comments or questions re these developments on this thread. Post them at the “Normalization” thread at the SWR board.
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"Here is a link to a post f
Old 06-11-2004, 05:30 PM   #239
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"Here is a link to a post f

Quote:
Here is a link to a post from ES (site owner at NoFeeBoards.com) announcing the reinstatement of my posting privileges.

http://www.nofeeboards.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2586

Here is a link to a thread-starter that I offered at the SWR Research Group this morning on the subject of “Normalization of SWR Discussions.”

http://www.nofeeboards.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2589

Please do not offer comments or questions re these developments on this thread. Post them at the “Normalization” thread at the SWR board.
I think that great!

I hope we see more of the SWR jihad on the NoFeeBoards and less of it here. <grin>

intercst
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"
Old 06-11-2004, 08:29 PM   #240
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Re: Yahoo "Finance Quiz"

Hey *****...

Why dont you just go and send Intercst some naked photos so he can get it over with? :
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