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Old 07-24-2008, 03:54 PM   #221
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Honestly, the bankruptcy bill was a solution in search of a problem.

For the most part, people declared bankruptcy after a major illness, a job loss, or a divorce. The system that was in place worked fine for 40 or so years. It had major consequences for the people declaring bankruptcy. There was occassional abuse, but nothing like the proponents of the bill implied.

The bill was basically written by credit card companies with the idea that they would be able to completely drop any pretense of judging credit worthiness. They could just loan money at 30% to anyone who asked, and they could have the government collect in bankruptcy court.

Obviously, this won't really work. The credit card companies and the government won't be able to get any more blood from the stone. It will help create a very dangerous class of people with nothing to lose.

Bankruptcy serves an important purpose. It's a safety valve for people who've made disasterous financial mistakes. Removing it creates an incentive to turn to crime, either to get the money or to do violence to their creditors or themselves.

Be careful what you wish for.
A nice summary that expresses my feelings concisely. Thanks.
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Old 07-24-2008, 03:56 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Marquette View Post
See, it's not a perfect system if the losses are being socialized. I explicitly said that you shouldn't pay for others.

My wife and I put 7% down on our house. We compensated the bank for a higher degree of risk in the form of a monthly PMI payment. Once we owned more than 20% of our house, we stopped paying PMI. Presumably, the machinery was comfortable enough at this point with breaking even in a short sale that our risk level was lowered and thus our costs were lowered.
My situation pretty much mirrors yours. Obviously we are both idiots, we could have started at the top of the property ladder, with nothing down, or even gotten a nice rebate at closing. With no equity, we wouldn't be affected by the current downturn in the market, we could have just walked away and left the financial mess for someone else to clean up. Our reward would have far outweighed the risk, especially if we stripped the house and sold all the assets on Craigslist or the scrapyard prior to foreclosure.

Unfortunately, I wasn't raised that way. What is your excuse?
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Old 07-24-2008, 03:59 PM   #223
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I'm still curious about the "inappropriate e-mail messages" that got Smokey canned.

In such situations, one immediately thinks of the carnal, but she doesn't seem the type.

Anyone care to speculate? Food obviously looms large in her life. Maybe she broke some company rule about discussing chow on line.

I bet there was a marmot involved....
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:19 PM   #224
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Now, in all objectivity, how is this not in some ways classifiable as attempted robbery?
With all due objectivity.... it is not attempted robbery because there was no threat of force or violence used by the banker. Before I go any further.... I hate slimey people like that. If it were up to me, they should be fired immediately. But... there are no laws in our society against being a jerk, just like there are no laws that will prevent you from doing something stupid if you want to. There is a word for people that need to be protected from others at all times, because they do not know any better. They are called "children". Now if you want to make the claim of some sort of mental retardation, then I can accept that. That legally defines these people as unfit to take care of themselves... and then they truly do need assistance from the govt. I support that sort of thing. A person with real mental problems cannot just "figure it out". But to make the claim that all of these folks are able to take care of themselves... eating, bathing, driving, raising their own children, voting, and the hundreds of other things that adults need to do, but are just financially "retarded", is a bit far fetched to me. You just cannot "have your cake, and eat it too". You are either capable of navigating your way through life, or you are not. This is not to be mean spirited, or vindictive, or even spiteful of anyone. It is just factual. If you want to be an adult, then you surrender your "child" card that says you need to be "taken care of" because you did not "know any better". It is hard to be an adult... lots of responsibilities, and chores to do, and lots of dangers and hardships will await you too. Some bad things will no doubt happen to you through no fault of your own, and it will be horribly "unfair". But I for one embrace the challenges of life, and of living. And would have no desire to live in a world that was so sanitized for my "protection", that the challenge of living was completely removed.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:30 PM   #225
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I bet there was a marmot involved....
Stuffed with waffles. Riding a dog.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:48 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by barbarus View Post
I'm still curious about the "inappropriate e-mail messages" that got Smokey canned.

In such situations, one immediately thinks of the carnal, but she doesn't seem the type.

Anyone care to speculate? Food obviously looms large in her life. Maybe she broke some company rule about discussing chow on line.
Having w*rked in network security for a good portion of my career, I can testify that there are many types of inappropriate emails, and most are merely excuses to get rid of somebody you don't like. In other words, there may be thousands of other employees doing the same things, but management can use it as a reason for dismissal. Sort of like Capone and the tax avoidence.

Let's see, other than porn, there are (off the top of my head) spam, pyramid schemes (forwarding the chain letters), inappropriate jokes, anti-diversity comments, slanderous comments about the company or it's execs, and my personal favorite - exposing company secrets. As if everyone in the company wasn't doing that everytime they used AIM.

Harley
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:07 PM   #227
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Stuffed with waffles. Riding a dog.

I challenge you to come up with that picture... but then again, I managed to come up with a cowboy riding a jackalope
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:13 PM   #228
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Eh, i'm not in a photoshop mood right now. But considering I produced bill gates and dr. phil with suze orman on his head, all equipped with pancakes, and riding in a kayak together...i'm thinking my skillz are without challenge at this juncture.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:44 PM   #229
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...i'm thinking my skillz are without challenge at this juncture.
As opposed to, for example, your skills in time management and prioritization...
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Old 07-25-2008, 06:08 PM   #230
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Dont make me post the thing about adult onset attention deficit disorder again...
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Old 07-25-2008, 06:15 PM   #231
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Dont make me post the thing about adult onset attention deficit disorder again...
What was this thread about, again?
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Old 07-25-2008, 06:21 PM   #232
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Zombie singles ads...

ZombieHarmony - One of the Best Free Dating Sites for Zombies
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:00 PM   #233
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Zombie singles

Do those come individually wrapped like Kraft Singles?
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Old 07-25-2008, 08:10 PM   #234
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Yes, but from what I understand they're not wrapped very tight.
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Old 07-25-2008, 08:46 PM   #235
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The bill was basically written by credit card companies with the idea that they would be able to completely drop any pretense of judging credit worthiness. They could just loan money at 30% to anyone who asked, and they could have the government collect in bankruptcy court.
Do you have any reason for this view? Maybe a source (outside of a blog) that I can read into? This doesnt really make sense to me.

Quote:
Obviously, this won't really work. The credit card companies and the government won't be able to get any more blood from the stone. It will help create a very dangerous class of people with nothing to lose.

Bankruptcy serves an important purpose. It's a safety valve for people who've made disasterous financial mistakes. Removing it creates an incentive to turn to crime, either to get the money or to do violence to their creditors or themselves.

Be careful what you wish for.
The bankruptcy makes it harder for people who have an income to "wipe the slate clean and start over." That's what my google search turned up. It is now harder to file Chapter 7, and you need to file Chap 13 (where some of your debts are not wiped clean).
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:09 PM   #236
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bankruptcy bill:

Daily Kos: The Bankruptcy Bill, Examined

this is how bad it is:
Quote:
To exempt debtors from means testing if their financial problems were caused by identity theft.
REJECTED
Quote:
To limit the amount of interest that can be charged on any extension of credit to 30 percent.
REJECTED
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To protect service members and veterans from means testing in bankruptcy, to disallow certain claims by lenders charging usurious interest rates to servicemembers, and to allow servicemembers to exempt property based on the law of the State of their premilitary residence.
REJECTED
in that last one.. I'm not sure about the means-testing, but disconnecting service members from their home states' bankruptcy/property protections is pretty cold. What happened to states' rights?

OJ has better homestead protection than our armed forces with property in FL, apparently.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.. I'm sure you can find more if you Google it.
Oh btw, this is the "Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005".
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http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._03/005781.php
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:12 PM   #237
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Well sure. Who'd wanna mess with OJ?

Heck...I threw out all my sports memorabilia a couple of months ago. Who wants to take the chance?
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:18 PM   #238
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Do you have any reason for this view? Maybe a source (outside of a blog) that I can read into? This doesnt really make sense to me.
Anything you find will be opinionated. But the differences in how it was and how it is now are pretty clear. Previously, you could go BK, get your debts discharged without much hassle, and go out and start picking up the pieces of your life. Now the process is far more complicated and expensive, you have to justify everything, and unless you earn an absolute pittance you can't really get your debts discharged anyway. I am sure Martha could fill us in on a lawyer;s perspective in the differences from a tactical level.

The primary beneficiaries of the changes were very clearly the credit card companies. Why? Under the old rules, secured creditors (house, car, etc.) generally either got the asset back (house, car) or got the debtor to start paying again via the BK process. Unsecured creditors (credit cards, etc.) got squat because it was their claim that was the most readily extinguished by the BK process. Under the new rules, any debt is a challenge to discharge, so the main difference is for the unsecured creditors, who now preserve much or all of their claim through the BK process rather than getting told to shove it by the BK judge.
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Old 07-26-2008, 06:21 AM   #239
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Would someone please sticky this thread, and use it as warning on why retiring early (or even thinking about it) is dangerous to your mental health!

12 pages (and counting) of Marmots, Nutris (?), Yaks, bacon, crockpots from crackpots, and bankruptcy. You'll are nuts, entertaining yes, but certifiable.
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My 2 pesetas worth
Old 07-26-2008, 08:22 AM   #240
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My 2 pesetas worth

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One must stand in awe at the creators of financial instruments like credit cards. They were masters at understanding the darkest recesses of human nature. They knew how to accumulate vast wealth by playing on human foibles like master violinists are able to draw out the limits of sound from their instruments.

These guys sure know how to play suckers. They are the true artists of our modern society, yet they are destined to remain anonymous and unfeted(except by me).

I would like to see one dragged out into the noonday sun though, so I could have a good look. Their prey like "Dumpy" here in the article are all too apparent, surrounding us in everyday life, but they themselves remain hidden away in might buildings in great cities, unseen.
Hhmmmm... I like this statement. Although I can do you one better. Mayne we should all become Muslim so that it would be a sin to charge interest.
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