Yet another stupid debtor and retirement account raider!

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Another thread wrapped up via diversion regarding rodent like creatures.

 

[bbbamI]

What was this thread about?

 

[Westernskies]

Not eating those, either!!

At least Sarah's marmots sound a little exotic, maybe?

might make a good avatar... if not an appetizer.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Not eating those, either!!

At least Sarah's marmots sound a little exotic, maybe?

I'm trying to resist this--it's just too good a set up, but must be strong!

 

[CitricAcid]

CA, I respectfully submit that the borrower in the article IS feeling the pain now.. and that the things you list above do not help HER (except minorly the stimulus)..

MORE low interest rates and MORE down-payment assistance only perpetuate the very system/scenario that reeled her in (to everyone's loss). This is the debt pyramid I've been talking about.. they need to go out and find more ingenuous QVC shoppers as grist for the mill.

I don't view the demand as coming from the bottom at all ("customers demanded risky loans so we had to respond!"). I view the demand for more debt and higher rates at the top as a kind of vortex that sucks people (that aren't nailed down financially) up, up into the vacuum.

In a way, you are right in that the loans could have been originated at the top, but no matter what you do or package it, these loans NEED to be taken by those at the bottom. In other words, you are kind of suggesting induced demand (has a decent article on wikipedia, more like enough supply creates demand almost).

And, I never said that she ISN'T feeling the pain, if I did I feel I wrote poorly. What I am trying to say is that she SHOULD (as she is). I am not saying this out of spite or anger or contemptuously looking down on her on my high horse, but the fact that based off the agreement that she had with the creditor, she was supposed to pay off the credit card debt. Just, and again it isn't specifically from her but an indictment against many of those in debt's attitude, many of those who want to hang the credit card companies will completely favor a bailout of those in debt.

I stand by the companies and the debtors should be held responsible for their actions (and the stockholders/bondholders). If it causes higher rates, then don't buy the product, or make your own company and try to beat their rates. In other words, the creditors ARE offering a service, no matter how expensive it actually is, it does help people. The problem I see is when the agreement falls out, everyone jumps in to help out (not this case again) the debtor, but not the creditor because of "predatory practices"

 

[Sarah in SC]

Hey now, nobody better mess with my marmot! Where's a pancake?
CFB is the king of thread diversions!

 

[Westernskies]

I'm trying to resist this--it's just too good a set up, but must be strong!

You must be thinking about "hoary marmots"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoary_Marmot

 

[harley]

One thing I wonder about...there's been a lot of talk about how many (if not Ms. McLeod specifically) are misled by the banks and credit card companies and the advertising agencies and all the other forces of evil in our society. But didn't anyone ever say to her "you're living an unsustainable lifestyle, and you're going to hit bottom eventually"?

I have many friends who live in a manner I consider foolish. I give them my advice (for free ), but they make their own decisions. IMHO people for whatever reasons choose intentionally to make these destructive decisions. I know all of mine were either thought out (at some level) or at least consciously rationalized.

I always try to stop my various destructive behaviors before they do me permanent damage. There may be some truly stupid people out there, but I suspect most are aware of what they are doing to themselves and for some reason refuse to stop until they do hit rock bottom. I just don't understand it.

Harley

 

[harley]

oops, sorry. It took me so long to compose that post I didn't realize that in the meantime the thread had been hijacked.

 

[Marquette]

oops, sorry. It took me so long to compose that post I didn't realize that in the meantime the thread had been hijacked.

You can help get us back on track by post by posting pictures of hoary marmots

 

[harley]

Two hoary marmots completeing a financial deal. The one one the left is screwing the one on the right, who thinks everything is copacetic.

 

[Milton]

There may be some truly stupid people out there, but I suspect most are aware of what they are doing to themselves and for some reason refuse to stop until they do hit rock bottom. I just don't understand it.

Financial suicide is similar to other forms of self-destructive behaviour (e.g. smoking, drinking, overeating, etc.).

Some debtors probably feel they have little or nothing to lose. If you're already insolvent and facing imminent bankruptcy, why not 'live it up' while people are crazy enough to keep extending credit? That is certainly not the way I choose to live my life; but from their perspective, it probably makes sense.

Alternatively, some people have a very low self-image, and may subconsciously crave the self-definition of being dunned by collection agencies and otherwise made to feel like failures / victims.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Excellent, Harley! Anytime we can help encourage these thread diversions!
I bet one of those marmots has a low FICO score.

 

[Milton]

"May I have a VISA card, please?"

 

[Bestwifeever]

Sarah, now you have your choice of avatars.

Both photos are adorable and have totally taken my mind off that poor woman in the OP. Let's send her a marmot too!

 

[armor99]

Noooo, it's for the shareholders.. and the bondholders and the holders of mortgage-backed securities, and the hedge funds and the IBs and Fannie and Freddie and now the Federal government and ultimately the taxpayer to worry about, NOW.. isn't it!?!?!?

Because they all couldn't wait to make crappy zero-percent-down loans on 110% or even 120% of the sales price!!!!! How many exclamation points will do, here?

According to your logic, and your stated way of thinking, shouldn't we all feel equally sorry for all of the poor bankers that lost huge amounts of money? What about all the piling on of them?

 

[Marquette]

The best coat I ever bought is a Marmot shell with a zip-in vest liner. It's great to be able to switch between having a vest, a wind-resistant spring jacket and a winter coat all in one (sometimes you need all three of those in the course of a day in Minnesota).

Oh, and we probably charged it (to get the reward) and then paid it off by the next balance cycle.

 

[Bestwifeever]

The best coat I ever bought is a Marmot shell with a zip-in vest liner. It's great to be able to switch between having a vest, a wind-resistant spring jacket and a winter coat all in one (sometimes you need all three of those in the course of a day in Minnesota).

Oh, and we probably charged it (to get the reward) and then paid it off by the next balance cycle.

You must be really little to fit into a marmot shell....

 

[Sarah in SC]

Leaving the rodents for a moment to discuss cold weather clothing...yet another thread hijack...I bought some yak gloves in Mongolia...here's my favorite "yak in black".

 

[Marquette]

I bought some yak gloves in Mongolia...here's my favorite "yak in black".

Oh, so it was one of those 'U-Pick' places?

And I thought the lobster tank at the restaurant was a little extreme...

 

[Westernskies]

Is it thread hijacking if you manage to include Marmots and the original topic about not being able to pay the bills?

 

[Westernskies]

You can help get us back on track by post by posting pictures of hoary marmots

Since you asked....

 

[Marquette]

Since you asked....

I un-ask, I un-ask!

 

[ladelfina]

didn't anyone ever say to her "you're living an unsustainable lifestyle, and you're going to hit bottom eventually"?

great point, Harley.. but that question should be asked also of:
the Federal government
the banks and hedge funds
the municipalities
etc.

We can think of how to stage a personal 'intervention'.. but how do you stage an intervention on the entire US of A?

 

[NW-Bound]

What a thread hijack!

I had to log off to go run some errands. Get back in 2 hrs, and everyone talks about marmots.

When I left, I was asking what nutria tastes like, and I thought someone was about to post a recipe.

Now, about the debtor woman, I will repeat that these people have low EQ, a disease or deficiency, whatever you want to call it, which also afflicts people in higher socioeconomic classes, like the veterans Nords described in another thread. I am not sure that there can be a cure. For example, some people like to gamble, and if you ban all casinos, they will flock to Schwab and ETrade. What can we do?