Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-22-2015, 11:21 PM   #321
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: East coast
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post

If they cut the benefits of seniors, what are they going to do, march on Washington in their walkers?
Yep.
__________________

__________________
Mags438 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-23-2015, 12:34 AM   #322
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
this is our first year going in to retirement so we have about 2 years cash in place but the income we do get from investments has us up above the threshold for a medical subsidy.
Don't know if its an interest to you or not, but wouldn't it be possible for you to change a bunch of those investments into very tax friendly ones, example BRK.B (or even VTI etf) ?
__________________

__________________
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 06:28 AM   #323
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RunningBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset View Post
Don't know if its an interest to you or not, but wouldn't it be possible for you to change a bunch of those investments into very tax friendly ones, example BRK.B (or even VTI etf) ?
Can't speak for mathjak but for me, it would be a huge tax hit to exchange investments like that. The subsidy at age 53 wouldn't be all that much for me anyway. If subsidies are still in place as I get closer to 65 and premiums go up I may do enough of that one year and stop my Roth conversions to get the subsidy.
__________________
RunningBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 09:10 AM   #324
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by timo2 View Post
People seem to be worried about SS having issues, and thus want to take it early. What about the opposite hypothetical view: the banks are much more likely to crash the economy again, which would leave SS as the only money left fro retirees. So the resulting logic is to spend one's money in the banks first and leave SS and I bonds to last.

I do not think these people are worried about the system just going belly up and disappearing. More concerned with means testing, taxing of benefits, reduced benefits etc. which would negate the comparison. For some people, the allure to hold unto ones own money is a powerful incentive to alter SS payouts to an earlier date. It maybe more of an emotional satisfier for some, but I can understand the feeling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 09:16 AM   #325
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,820
I consider the possibility of means testing as one reason to defer SS.

If "means" is defined as assets and/or non-SS income, I reduce my after age 70 "means" by spending down assets between 62 and 70.
__________________
Independent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 09:49 AM   #326
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
I do not think these people are worried about the system just going belly up and disappearing. More concerned with means testing, taxing of benefits, reduced benefits etc. which would negate the comparison. For some people, the allure to hold unto ones own money is a powerful incentive to alter SS payouts to an earlier date. It maybe more of an emotional satisfier for some, but I can understand the feeling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
One of the reasons I posted that bit about possible future cuts was to tease out some replies on whether these issues factor into the decision on when to take benefits.

It seems that everyone has a different set of 'factors' which they use to make that decision.

So, there will never be a 'right' way - just 'your' way.
__________________
BBQ-Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 09:57 AM   #327
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ-Nut View Post
One of the reasons I posted that bit about possible future cuts was to tease out some replies on whether these issues factor into the decision on when to take benefits.

It seems that everyone has a different set of 'factors' which they use to make that decision.

So, there will never be a 'right' way - just 'your' way.

A persons own money is the damnedest thing to discuss as a collective group isn't it. Yes it all has the same store of value in numerical terms. But its perceived value and emotional value take on a life of its own. Just think how often people post on here about saving aggressively their entire life to be able to enjoy a nice retirement, only to fret about not being able to spend it once the destination is reached.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 10:03 AM   #328
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent View Post
If "means" is defined as assets and/or non-SS income, I reduce my after age 70 "means" by spending down assets between 62 and 70.
DW and I would have to get some really bad health news before deciding to draw down assets significantly as soon as age 70. The joint and survivor life expectancy for a 70 year old couple is 22.6 years. With uncertainties in asset performance, the possibility of one of us living a lot longer than average, etc, I think we'll be about 10 years older than that before I would feel comfortable deliberately steering the portfolio balance to an intercept with the X-axis. But, I'll admit I haven't fully considered all the options--there's significant risk of leaving a lot of money unspent (or spent too late to get maximum utility from it). Do I hear VPW calling?
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 11:48 AM   #329
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
timo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 1,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
DW and I would have to get some really bad health news before deciding to draw down assets significantly as soon as age 70. The joint and survivor life expectancy for a 70 year old couple is 22.6 years. With uncertainties in asset performance, the possibility of one of us living a lot longer than average, etc, I think we'll be about 10 years older than that before I would feel comfortable deliberately steering the portfolio balance to an intercept with the X-axis. But, I'll admit I haven't fully considered all the options--there's significant risk of leaving a lot of money unspent (or spent too late to get maximum utility from it). Do I hear VPW calling?

For younger baby boomers like myself, maybe we should be looking at the health patterns of the first wave of boomers (who will be 70 in 2016) for estimating how much to spend down before 70. The healthy ones are still pretty lively (you know who you are ). This may be a more apples to apples comparison of lifestyle patterns that affect longevity. I would be interested in hearing from those first wave boomers on their withdrawal actions or plans. My current plan is to spend a lot more in my 60's.
__________________
"We live the lives we lead because of the thoughts we think" Michael O’Neill
timo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 12:44 PM   #330
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
DW and I would have to get some really bad health news before deciding to draw down assets significantly as soon as age 70. The joint and survivor life expectancy for a 70 year old couple is 22.6 years. With uncertainties in asset performance, the possibility of one of us living a lot longer than average, etc, I think we'll be about 10 years older than that before I would feel comfortable deliberately steering the portfolio balance to an intercept with the X-axis. But, I'll admit I haven't fully considered all the options--there's significant risk of leaving a lot of money unspent (or spent too late to get maximum utility from it). Do I hear VPW calling?
I didn't mean "spend down with the goal of becoming poor by the time we're 70"

I meant that we were planning to spend money between 62 and 70 anyway. If we defer SS we're not going to spend a lot more, but the spending we do will reduce an IRA balance. I don't know what the "means formula" would be, but it's possible we'd see a smaller loss to SS benefits if we have lower assets.
__________________
Independent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 01:45 PM   #331
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent View Post
I didn't mean "spend down with the goal of becoming poor by the time we're 70"
Yes, gotcha. I was only making the point that, given the uncertainties in every factor of the equation, I wouldn't feel comfortable significantly increasing our spending rate as early as 70, so even more-so at age 62.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent View Post
I don't know what the "means formula" would be, but it's possible we'd see a smaller loss to SS benefits if we have lower assets.
Agreed. And, as the situation becomes more clear, we could adjust our "means" to best fit the situation. E.g. If income based, pay off the mortgage. If asset based and home values aren't counted, then maybe pay off the mortgage early. Maybe consider a trust or a SPIA, etc.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 01:48 PM   #332
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,248
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/3-time...123138826.html

Freshly (today) posted on Yahoo Finance. When it makes sense to claim SS early.
1. You can coordinate your benefits with a spouse.
2. You are seriously or terminally ill
3. You have no money and limited earning options.

They forgot:
4. You are a financial genius.
__________________
eta2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 06:31 PM   #333
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
The problem with most SS claiming articles and recommendations are that the stated or imbedded assumptions are that every household has longevity insurance as their main objective for SS (which isn't true for many posters here) and that there will be no benefits or tax changes to the SS program in the future, which seems unlikely.

If longevity insurance was a high concern for us, we wouldn't have ERed in the first place. The way to have the most money at age 80+ for us would be to go back to work full time now.
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 07:17 PM   #334
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort View Post
The problem with most SS claiming articles and recommendations are that the stated or imbedded assumptions are that every household has longevity insurance as their main objective for SS (which isn't true for many posters here) and that there will be no benefits or tax changes to the SS program in the future, which seems unlikely.

If longevity insurance was a high concern for us, we wouldn't have ERed in the first place. The way to have the most money at age 80+ for us would be to go back to work full time now.

Not sure I would agree with that last statement. Longevity insurance mitigates or solves the "when am I going to die" question, or how long does my money need to last. That's invaluable information to any retiree, early or not.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
bmcgonig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 07:31 PM   #335
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgonig View Post
Not sure I would agree with that last statement. Longevity insurance mitigates or solves the "when am I going to die" question, or how long does my money need to last. That's invaluable information to any retiree, early or not.
Does it matter when Bill Gates takes SS? Most here are not Bill Gates but at least some are also not living anywhere near the edge of running out of money even at age 100+ no matter when they take SS.
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2015, 01:41 AM   #336
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort View Post
Does it matter when Bill Gates takes SS? Most here are not Bill Gates but at least some are also not living anywhere near the edge of running out of money even at age 100+ no matter when they take SS.
He is so frugal that he will probably wait till 70, especially as he knows rich folks live longer (possibly due to less dangerous work, best health care money can buy, and high quality food).

So he will max it out.
__________________
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2015, 06:42 AM   #337
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
The joint and survivor life expectancy for a 70 year old couple is 22.6 years.
Hadn't realized this. Good data. Thanks.
__________________
gerntz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2015, 07:22 PM   #338
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset View Post
Don't know if its an interest to you or not, but wouldn't it be possible for you to change a bunch of those investments into very tax friendly ones, example BRK.B (or even VTI etf) ?
it is near impossible at this point with out huge tax ramifications.
__________________
mathjak107 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2015, 06:57 PM   #339
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunner View Post
They latest life expectancy for males that I could find is 76.4 years in the US, for women it 81.2 years. FWIW I am a single male. In the previous two generations of my family only 3 males out of 6 lived beyond this age. None in good health, two with severe dementia and one losing a leg to circulation problems. I believe in my case the author's point is valid, odds are I can do more with money and enjoy life more between the ages of 62 - 66 than I will in future past age 66.

Dementia and Parkinson's in the previous two generations of my family seems to be prevalent.
Life expectancy info is AT BIRTH. Once you reach 65+ you have a much greater chance of reaching your 80's. Look how the RMD tables are built. By making it to 65+. you outlived all the childhood diseases, the "stupidity" of our younger years and son on.
__________________
AWeinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2015, 07:37 AM   #340
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 718
According to the latest SSA mortality tables that I could find, for males,
At age 62, 50% of them would still be alive at 87, 10% would still be alive at 97.
At age 70, 50% would live to be 88, 10% would live to be 97.

The "life expectancy" everybody uses is the 50% figure. And notice that that doesn't change much -- once you hit SS age you have a 50/50 chance at making it to 87-88.
The luckiest 10% make it to 97. The other 90% don't.
__________________

__________________
rayvt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When Should You Take Social Security? wanaberetiree FIRE and Money 20 09-02-2014 02:56 PM
when should you take social security article veremchuka FIRE and Money 117 02-21-2011 06:04 PM
why you should ALWAYS take SS as soon as you can endthefed FIRE and Money 69 06-05-2010 09:38 AM
Iraq and the Kansas Tornado. You should be angry. We all should. newguy88 Other topics 16 05-08-2007 08:20 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:25 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.