Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-21-2014, 01:36 PM   #61
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,495
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
We've got most of our non-IRA assets in a revocable trust, including the house. We've got a $2 million Umbrella policy on top of that.
+1
Will be revisiting it year after next (circumstances have changed since trust was drawn up) and increasing umbrella policy as well.
__________________

__________________
Options is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-21-2014, 02:09 PM   #62
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Islands
Posts: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil1ben View Post

2. I carry a 5MM Umbrella. I have obtained quotes to increase the amount to 10MM and 15MM and the cost moves up substantially above 5MM because my agent informed me that the risk is reinsured mostly by Lloyds. I have determined that the cost exceeded the risk in my opinion - for me. My Umbrella is through Chubb and is not very expensive given the relatively high cost Chubb charges for other insurance. I stay with Chubb but that is a story for another day.
Check PURE...spin-off of Chubb. Same quality lower price.
__________________

__________________
Travelwanted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 03:11 PM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,599
Just another thought for those who don't have a good umbrella policy because they think they are expensive:

Check it out. You will probably be surprised at how reasonable they can be.
__________________
braumeister is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 05:19 PM   #64
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 105
This site is great. I didn't know much about Umbrella Policies until last week. Since then I have done a lot of reading and should get my quote back from the Underwriter today and have the policy in place by tomorrow. I also read up on ERISA. I had planned on rolling our 401ks into IRAs at Vanguard once we RE, but after researching this, I believe I will keep the funds in our 401k. Besides, it has some pretty good funds that I am comfortable with. Next step is to research Homestead Exemption in CA.
__________________
Rdub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 10:01 PM   #65
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky911 View Post
I think the insurance company might not pay if you are found to be doing something illegal. You are not suppose to hit people or what if you blew your house up making crack in your bathtub? Would your insurance pay?
In many (most?) states, your homeowner (and auto liability) insurance will not cover legal costs or damages that you inflict intentionally, even if you do so within the law.

When we bought our homeowner insurance 30+ years ago, the agent made very sure we understood that limitation, and used a couple of examples from his own clients that were pretty scary. After all, if someone is enough of a dirtbag that you must physically defend yourself, they will surely be enough of a dirtbag to sue you afterwards. Especially if they lose the fight.

You can buy liability insurance through the NRA and some other organizations which covers lawful use of a firearm in self defense, but I'm not aware of anything that covers you if you just smack the creep and bust out his teeth.

Anyone know of better coverage?
__________________
Gearhead Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 10:07 AM   #66
Full time employment: Posting here.
Birdie Num Nums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitwdw View Post
fist fight How old are you?
Lennon-Ali.JPG
Jimmy Lennon Jr. & Ali (early 1960s)
__________________
Birdie Num Nums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:02 PM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead Jim View Post
In many (most?) states, your homeowner (and auto liability) insurance will not cover legal costs or damages that you inflict intentionally, even if you do so within the law.

When we bought our homeowner insurance 30+ years ago, the agent made very sure we understood that limitation, and used a couple of examples from his own clients that were pretty scary. After all, if someone is enough of a dirtbag that you must physically defend yourself, they will surely be enough of a dirtbag to sue you afterwards. Especially if they lose the fight.

You can buy liability insurance through the NRA and some other organizations which covers lawful use of a firearm in self defense, but I'm not aware of anything that covers you if you just smack the creep and bust out his teeth.

Anyone know of better coverage?
.45 ACP.

In this state they can't sue you for legitimate use of force protecting yourself or others, against the 7 deadly sins. I'm sure thats different in the other 49 states.
MRG
__________________
MRG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 01:27 PM   #68
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Interesting/thought provoking thread. A couple of questions:

If a family has a $1mln umbrella and 4 driving family members. If 2 or 3 of the members get into 2-3 separate car accidents in say the same month and all of them get sued, is the $1mln umbrella policy for EACH member or total for the whole family?

Are Roth IRA's or TIRA's protected against a lawsuit?

Interesting note about keeping money in the 401k after retiring which probably implies that TIRA's and RIRA's are not protected, I guess. Then I'm curious how people weigh what it's better to do: rollover or leave in the 401k considering tax implications vs. a potential lawsuit. Do they stop driving as soon as they start rolling over the money? Considering that house might be protected (in quite a few states), then a potential retiree doesn't need to feel rushed to become a renter.

So many questions to consider before retiring: various thresholds in order to save on taxes, ACA insurance, when SS becomes taxable, LTC insurance or not, now potential lawsuits, anything else? Is there a manual (sticky thread on ER?) with all the questions/instructions/advice for all these things? It seems it's much easier to keep w*rking sometimes .
__________________
aida2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 01:33 PM   #69
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Because IRAs are not ERISA plans, protection depends upon state law. My state protects them to an unlimited amount, other states have a dollar limit or even no protection.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 03:06 PM   #70
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by aida2003 View Post
So many questions to consider before retiring: various thresholds in order to save on taxes, ACA insurance, when SS becomes taxable, LTC insurance or not, now potential lawsuits, anything else? Is there a manual (sticky thread on ER?) with all the questions/instructions/advice for all these things? It seems it's much easier to keep w*rking sometimes .
It is a complex issue and we have not found an easy solution. I made my own custom spreadsheet and then used the detailed cash flow chart in the Fidelity RIP to cross check my calculations. On my chart I can then do more playing around with taxes, HSA accounts and ACA subsidies, so in reality I can get the taxes for the foreseeable future much lower than the RIP shows.

On the RIP I don't use the detailed expenses - just an annual dollar figure in the other category. Otherwise I think some of their escalating estimates are not realistic, especially when you compare them to the Consumer Expenditure Survey, median household income and average Social Security benefits today. I know health care expenses are escalating higher than Social Security benefits, but if something doesn't give on the health expense, I just don't see us having a nation of voting retirees going without food and shelter in order to pay for medical care.
__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 07:15 AM   #71
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Because IRAs are not ERISA plans, protection depends upon state law. My state protects them to an unlimited amount, other states have a dollar limit or even no protection.
What's your state, Brewer? What's the catch there with regards to onerous (?) taxes for retirees, inheritance laws, anything else that would make your state not attractive to a potential retiree?
If IRA's are protected in that state, but if you're on vacation in another state and you have an accident, can't the victim sue you in that state and your IRA loses its shield?
__________________
aida2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 08:22 AM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
I don't know what happens if you cross state lines. Perhaps someone does and could tell us?

My state has a tiny homestead exemption plus forest fires, tornadoes, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, crazy people with guns, not enough water, etc. You don't want to move here.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 08:29 AM   #73
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
My state has a tiny homestead exemption plus forest fires, tornadoes, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, crazy people with guns, not enough water, etc. You don't want to move here.
Careful, you're dangerously close to copyright infringement...
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 08:51 AM   #74
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Careful, you're dangerously close to copyright infringement...
Sorry, forgot the credit:

"This message brought to you courtesy of the State of Texas Visitor Welcome Board."

We can send you an extra 100,000 Californians as compensation.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 08:54 AM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
We can send you an extra 100,000 Californians as compensation.
Don't bother, they're already here: Texas dominates ranks of fastest growing cities
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 09:01 AM   #76
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
I don't know what happens if you cross state lines. Perhaps someone does and could tell us?

My state has a tiny homestead exemption plus forest fires, tornadoes, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, crazy people with guns, not enough water, etc. You don't want to move here.
Brewer, are you trying to scare me off because of high influx already? If it's TX, then I like it but its population is expanding by leaps and bounds so it's not too attractive for me (same this is happening in my little city) unless a big portion of it deceases by the time I retire.
__________________
aida2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 09:05 AM   #77
Recycles dryer sheets
fosterscik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 182
I was curious about IRA bankruptcy protection. This web page suggests that all IRAs are now protected up to $1M (by the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 ) and confirms all 401k, 403b, 457 and pension funds are protected under ERISA. It has a state-by-state listing of what is protected ("exempt") above that limit (scroll down a while). I assume the $1M is in aggregate if you have multiple tIRA and Roth accounts:
Protect Retirement Assets
My state exempts tIRAs but NOT Roths (but I can only dream of having $1M in my IRAs).

It's probably important to read the entire article if you have worries in this area. As an example
"As an example, Mark Smith is a small business owner who has $500,000 invested in a SEP IRA established by his company. Under his state’s law, assets held in an IRA generally are exempted from any creditor claims. Mark is successfully sued for $300,000 of damages in state court and is not filing for federal bankruptcy protection.

This matter is outside of federal bankruptcy law, and the new bankruptcy protections therefore do not apply. Because Mark’s money is in a SEP IRA, it constitutes an ERISA pension plan, preempting any state law directly protecting it, and it would not qualify for the antialienation protections usually afforded ERISA plans. The judgment creditor therefore may successfully attach Mark’s IRA.

If Mark transferred the money in his SEP IRA to a rollover IRA, it no longer would qualify as an ERISA pension plan. Thus it would be protected from creditor claims up to $1 million either inside a bankruptcy proceeding or possibly to an unlimited extent outside of bankruptcy under applicable state law."
__________________
fosterscik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2015, 04:31 PM   #78
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,050
New York real estate homestead exemption (downstate counties) from creditors is 150k and another 150k for a spouse, total 300k for both.
Also NY exempts IRAs and pensions. Federal law protects ERISA 401ks. Social Security and SS Disability, Unemployment is exempt as well.
__________________

__________________
jim584672 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should I worry about asset protection? Olav23 FIRE and Money 10 08-01-2007 10:49 PM
72t, semi-re, asset protection, save me from MIL Webzter Young Dreamers 11 07-17-2007 08:18 PM
Asset protection / Trusts JJac FIRE and Money 3 04-19-2007 12:59 PM
Offshore Banking strategy for asset protection??? acg FIRE and Money 11 12-05-2005 12:11 AM
Buying Years of Service as Asset Protection Mountain_Mike FIRE and Money 8 11-26-2005 12:20 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:35 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.