Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: What is your actual average ROI in the last 15 years (1991-2006)
Less than 6% 2 3.51%
6 to 7.99% 4 7.02%
8 to 9.99% 11 19.30%
10 to 11.99% 11 19.30%
12 to 13.99% 2 3.51%
14 to 15.99% 1 1.75%
More than 16% 9 15.79%
I have no idea! 17 29.82%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 04-28-2006, 04:22 AM   #61
Recycles dryer sheets
gtmeouttahere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 128
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
In that case, though, RE sounds more like a business (j*b) than a pure capital investment... Maybe that's what you mean? Not sure how Jane would see it, but I agree that "building up a business" is kind of OT here; people are interested in how their savings can grow to support them in retirement, though they may "earn" their nest egg and reach FI in myriad ways.
If you would call 8 hours a week(at the most) a J.O.B (and I'm building more than one home), I guess you would be right but...I buy the vacant land w/help from my realtor who knows my profit margin, provide the funding for building, hire a project manager, and sign the closing documents at the front and the back end of the deal. *

It takes minimal supervision as I use the same people over and over again and I feel like it is a "pure capital" investment. *It may take a few phone calls in the beginning a few site visits followed by a phone call when each phase of construction is complete from my manager. *Then I call my agent to list the property when complete. *I never pound a nail,* just provide the funding and some guidance on what I want done. *

I know people who spend a hell of a lot more time on their portfolios than I do at my real estate ventures.

I doesn't feel like work to me.* But the profits are sure nice right now.
__________________

__________________
Lieutenant Dan got me invested in some kind of fruit company. So then I got a call from him, saying we don't have to worry about money no more. And I said, that's good! One less thing.* * * * ** Forrest Gump
gtmeouttahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 04-28-2006, 07:53 AM   #62
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
I know people who spend a hell of a lot more time on their portfolios than I do at my real estate ventures.
You're right! Sounds like you know what you are doing and have a good system set up with reliable agents and contractors. Not sure if personally I would want to spend even 8 hours a week, but I assume your profits make it well worthwhile..Also, it would take me a lot more time than that to get up to speed with figuring out locations, valuations, who to trust, etc... But I do wish you all the best in your RE investments!
__________________

__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 04-28-2006, 09:25 AM   #63
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

But 8 hours a week at, say, $25 an hour is $10,000 per year. Based on this assumption, you would have to discount your profits by $10,000 per year to account for your labor input into your "investment".

Then there is the issue of leverage. If you make $50,000 profit on a house and you only put $50k into the "deal", you have a profit of 100%, right? But you also borrowed $450k to get the deal done. Maybe your profit is only 10% ($50,000 divided by $500,000). The rate of return really depends on what you are measuring.

Based on how some of the "returns" are calculated here, I'd say I probably have an ROI of at least 20-25% from 1998 to today when I include businesses I've started, real estate "investments" and stock market investments. This, of course, includes triple digit returns from the market each of the last few years, due to leverage. It also ignores my labor inputs.

Ignoring leverage and considering labor inputs, I probably have a much more typical 10-12% ROI. But I voted "I have no idea" because I haven't kept the extremely detailed and accurate records to calculate the number.

__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 04-28-2006, 10:51 AM   #64
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Bay
Posts: 1,026
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Then there is the issue of leverage. If you make $50,000 profit on a house and you only put $50k into the "deal", you have a profit of 100%, right? But you also borrowed $450k to get the deal done. Maybe your profit is only 10% ($50,000 divided by $500,000). The rate of return really depends on what you are measuring.
ROI refers to the return on YOUR investment...the capital you invest, not on the total capital invested. If you leverage your investment by using borrowed capital, you are hugely magnifying the potential for % gain or loss on your investment. In this case, with no leverage, if the property value goes up or down 10% in a year, that is your ROI. In the case of a 90% leveraged investment, if the value goes up or down 10%, then your ROI is + or - 100%. I suppose it may just be a semantic issue here, because we here all understand how leverage works, but I doubt the average homeowner who leverages his home "investment" 90-95% realizes how his mortgage affects the risk of his investment.
__________________
scrinch is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 04-28-2006, 12:34 PM   #65
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 166
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

I agree it is tricky to figure out ROI for a RE investment that is actually being managed, maintained, etc. I am too lazy right now to put too much thought in it (My mind is on my DD's Prom tonight - 1st of 2 - his and hers! :)

Anyway, I figure that the amount I earn/earned in rental income - some went into our pockets, some to improvements (figure that as added into initial investment figures- as part of the total investment) some to mortgage interest and some to principal (technically iour pockets, again) PLUS we have had tax write-offs - BONUS! I don't figure in any of that in my ROI - that seemed more than fair. So, yearly income plus ROI. Again, your milage may/will vary. Did I say how wonderful my DH is??!!

Jane



__________________
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!
Jane_Doe is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 04-28-2006, 06:46 PM   #66
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
You could be right, DoD could be kicking in the same amount that I did.* However I've never checked into it.* Any experts here from DoD on that subject?
Nords,

At the bottom of page 3 of the annual "Your Social Security Statement", there is report on the amount of taxes paid for Social Security.* On mine, it says:

You paid:* $70,512
Your employers paid:* $70,793

Don't ask, I have no idea why there's a $281 discrepancy.* But since the extra was not paid by myself, I won't complain* :P

Sam



__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 04-28-2006, 10:37 PM   #67
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
At the bottom of page 3 of the annual "Your Social Security Statement", there is report on the amount of taxes paid for Social Security.
You're absolutely right, I stand corrected, I never noticed that before...

Mine has the same numbers for both me and my employer.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-02-2006, 11:02 AM   #68
Full time employment: Posting here.
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta suburbs
Posts: 881
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
You paid: $70,512
Your employers paid: $70,793

Don't ask, I have no idea why there's a $281 discrepancy. But since the extra was not paid by myself, I won't complain :P
Sam, this can happen (as happened to me) when you are employed in two places and both companies withold SS taxes and you exceed the taxable income limit for SS.
You will get your overpaid part of SS taxes returned, but your employers would not.

sailor

__________________
sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-02-2006, 04:37 PM   #69
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor
Sam, this can happen (as happened to me) when you are employed in two places and both companies withold SS taxes and you exceed the taxable income limit for SS.
You will get your overpaid part of SS taxes returned, but your employers would not.
sailor,

I think you're right about having more than 1 employer in one year.* It happened to me a few times in the past.

Question:* Did you specifically request the refund from SS?* I don't recall ever receiving a refund check from SS.

Sam
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-02-2006, 05:03 PM   #70
Recycles dryer sheets
Papi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 90
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Question:* Did you specifically request the refund from SS?* I don't recall ever receiving a refund check from SS.

Sam
Hi Sam,

THis happened to me a few years ago, but it was an internal accounting error due to the company changing names.* TurboTax caught it for me -- this one catch paid for about 7 years worth of TurboTax!!.* I ended up getting the overpayment returned to me by the goverment.* *The finance dept. thought it would be easier for me to get the refund than have the company fix the mistake (read: too lazy to fix their own problem ).

If it was a few years back you probably should contact the SS about it.
__________________
Here's to FIRE http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/im...s/beerchug.gif
Papi is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-02-2006, 05:14 PM   #71
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Yes, when you file your taxes you claim the refund.

http://tinyurl.com/kvqef
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-03-2006, 10:48 AM   #72
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Yes, when you file your taxes you claim the refund.

http://tinyurl.com/kvqef
Thank you, Martha.* Looking back, I think I did pay more* than required.* I am sure I never did ask for any refund.* Live and learn*

Sam
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-03-2006, 11:00 AM   #73
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Looking back, I think I did pay more* than required.* I am sure I never did ask for any refund.* Live and learn*
If you overpay SS by having multiple employers and earning, in aggregate, more than the SS max, you receive the overpayment as a credit when doing your fed income taxes.* You don't contact the SS folks to get it.* It would be pretty hard to miss when doing your taxes.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-03-2006, 11:04 AM   #74
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
If you overpay SS by having multiple employers, you receive the overpayment as a credit when doing your fed income taxes.* You don't contact the SS folks to get it.* It would be pretty hard to miss when doing your taxes.
youbet,

Not sure I understand.* Are you saying that the IRS will figure out the overpaid amount and send me a credit WITHOUT my asking?

Sam
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-03-2006, 11:32 AM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Sam:

If you use a program such as TurboTax, the amount of SS overpayment will be automatically calculated from data you enter from your W2 forms.* If you use a professional tax preparer, they will always check for SS overpayment if you had more than one employer.* If you are doing your taxes yourself manually, you would have seen to check for the SS overpayment in the instructions for form 1040 and you would have entered the amount on line 67 of form 1040.* It's pretty hard to miss.

The amount you enter on line 67 will increase your fed tax refund or reduce the amount of fed tax you owe but will not result in a separate refund check from SS.

In the year you think you might have payed excess SS tax, did you have more than one employer and, in aggregate, did you earn more than the SS max for that year?* If so, go back and check form 1040 for that year and see if you took the credit.

BTW, I'm not an accountant or CPA, just a guy who does his own taxes.* So, do your own diligence following up on my suggestion!* But, that's how I think it works.

__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years
Old 05-03-2006, 11:37 AM   #76
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Your average ROI in the last 15 years

Thanks youbet.

In short, one HAS to ask for a refund.* I did not.* I never paid any attention to SS payment when doing my tax*

Sam
__________________

__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
You retirees w/ 10+ years experience, what's next? Nords Life after FIRE 12 01-31-2010 03:43 PM
24 years old: what's my next move? soupcxan Young Dreamers 50 07-03-2006 10:36 AM
Retiring from the Armed Force. 20 to 30 years. Sam Other topics 14 03-29-2006 09:46 PM
Average Joe can retire rich mickeyd Young Dreamers 40 01-06-2006 07:36 PM
$50 a day? No way! patnbj FIRE and Money 112 01-30-2004 09:21 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:36 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.