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Old 11-02-2008, 12:49 AM   #41
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About 1300-1400 estimate for our main home in central california, of which over $1000 is prop tax and ins. About $150/mo for phone/internet/TV, about 100-150/mo annual avg estimated for propane (we are there only part time so this part is a guess), 50 or so for garbage, then about 300-400 per year for a couple cords of wood for heating. Electric is supplied by solar ($5/mo interconnection fee), water is from well, good septic system.

Oh, and someone mentioned opportunity cost. That would be about 4000/mo based on we invested to build the home (2 acres, central california, 4300ft home, 10kw solar, 38' pool) at 6% ROR. On the other hand, I could have invested that money in the market and lost 350k in the last 12 months...as it stands, the home is still worth more than we invested to build it, and on top of that, we love it.

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Old 11-02-2008, 01:29 AM   #42
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Location: A little ways southwest of Chicago
Posts: 9,342
1350 sf condo:
Association Fees 246
Electric 64
Gas 23
Maintenance 50
Phone 23
Real Estate Taxes 121
Insurance 29
Total Condo 556

3500 sf House:
Insurance 157
Homeowners Assoc 11
Property tax 508
Electric 159
Garbage 25
Gas 114
Internet 69
Security 47
Telephone 60
TV 94
Total house: 1242
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:06 AM   #43
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Semi rural CT. In addition to the the expenses below I pay a 6% sales tax and a 5% income tax.


1800 SF. house with 3 acres:

Mortgage $600
Insurance $65
Property tax $525
Electric $65
Heating oil $100
Internet $20
Telephone $35
Cable $13

Total house:$1423
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Old 11-02-2008, 11:22 AM   #44
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2505 sqft, 2 car garage, 1/3 acre in coastal CT. 2 people

Avg. monthly expense

$782 Real property tax
$212 Homeowners insurance
$300 Oil (heat & hot water)
$110 Electric
$43 Water
$15 Natural gas (stove and dryer)
$101 Cable (basic TV package plus internet)
$28 Local phone

$1591 TOTAL

plus Mortgage P&I of $1384

$2975 mo.
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Old 11-02-2008, 11:47 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunner View Post
I thought this would go nicely with the annual expense poll. What is your average monthly cost of living in your house less repairs and upgrades.

Mine is 1000 sq ft ranch with basement and 2 car garage. I included Property Tax, Heat, Electric, Water & Sewer, Cable & Phone, Insurance, Garbage pickup and ADT system.

Currently $792 a month for single occupant.
I'm unclear on the concept of home ownership. Why would your monthly expense not include your down payment and equity divided by an unknown number of months you will live there, plus or minus the unknown selling price? Why exclude repairs and upgrades?:confused:
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Old 11-02-2008, 12:02 PM   #46
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Property taxes are a bit high in Nebraska. I have a 1342 sq ft home, 2 bedrooms, basement, 2 stall garage.

$114 insurance
302 property tax
100 lawn service
90 cable
65 electric
85 heat (nat'l gas)
86 tele/dhl
10 cell prepaid
30 water/sewer

$882 monthly total
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Old 11-02-2008, 12:15 PM   #47
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In Nevada; 2 adults, 1 cat + 2 well-kept outdoor strays, 2100 sf,3car g., 1/3 ac. No State income tax, but 7.3%(I think) sales tax.

Approx. $844 a month for basics, not including house maintenance (including lawn service, etc.), car ins., gasoline, charity, groceries, fun $, etc.:

Property Tax $245/mo
Heat/Electric 187
Water 78
Sewer 30
Cable (basic+) 57 (this will go up as soon as we decide on dish or direct)
Phone/intern. 47
Hse.Insurance 180 (includes earthquake + flood)
Garbage 20
No Alarm system and NO mortgage for about 15 yrs.

After doing this exercise, I'm amazed at how much we spend on top of all this for 2 people. It's a lot and we are not big time spenders! But, we spend at least $800 a month on groceries and also eat out....that's one area I'm going to concentrate on figuring out how to quit wasting food we buy. Usually buy too much..forget we're still not cooking for more than 2. I've considered myself pretty frugal and buy mostly at our area discount stores Winco & yes, sometimes Walmart. This has been a great exercise! Have to admit that looking at some of your expenses...makes it tempting to move!!


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Old 11-02-2008, 12:31 PM   #48
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~1700 sf ranch-style house in the WV Panhandle. Three bedrooms, full basement, half of which is finished off, two-car garage, natural gas heat, public water & sewer. Paid for, no mortgage. If we tried to sell it, it'd go for about $280k now. Maybe.

Including $2,200/year in property taxes and $400/year HOA fees it costs about $700/month to own. Or perhaps less if we cut out cable TV, Internet, telephone, which we'd pay wherever we lived. The HOA fees include street maintenance (private roads, not county or state maintained) snow plowing, pothole fixing, set-aside for future repairs, etc. and the community swimming pool & tennis courts, which we don't use. Cable TV is a "necessity" here because there are only three broadcast stations, two of them full-time religion ones.

I think that may be why cable TV was invented in West Virginia.
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:37 PM   #49
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I don't see anyone including the opportunity cost of holding the equity in your home. If folks are going to include mortgage payments as a monthly cost, the cost of having no, or a reduced, monthly payment should be included. If your house is paid for, or if it's current market value exceeds the mortgage, charge yourself the opportunity cost of the equity value you don't have invested in a 5% CD. It'll make for a better apples to apples comparison vs. renting......
OK. Current value of home ~ $200K.
Invested in stocks, that would generate a return (this year) of maybe (-$50K).
Invested in a 5% CD, it would net $10K.
But you have to live somewhere. $10K a year is $833 per month: not too much to spend on shelter, IMHO.
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:47 PM   #50
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Small apartment where I live alone.

Rent, heat, hot water, water and sewer and trash collection $1075
Garage............................................ ..............................$ 75
Electricity....................................... ...............................$ 10
Insurance......................................... ..............................$ 8

Total............................................. ...............................$1168

I doubt I will ever buy, but never say never I guess.

Ha
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:49 PM   #51
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Ha, a $10 electric bill, now that's frugal. You're my hero.
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:51 PM   #52
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Ha, a $10 electric bill, now that's frugal. You're my hero.
Undeserved 73SS. Small apartment; mild climate (no AC); and cheap city electricity rates. Heat is payed in my rent.

Ha
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Old 11-02-2008, 02:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urchina View Post

Mortgage (P&I): $1183/mo
HOA fees: $415/mo
They must have one killer clubhouse to charge more than a third of your mortgage.


For me
Mortgage (P&I) ~$850
Taxes ~$200
Electricity, Water, Internet, Cell phone ~$150-$240 depending on time of year.
Garbage ~$20


Totaling around $1220-$1320/month for 1050 sq.ft on 0.21 acres. If I ever get around to finishing the bathroom I may rent out a room or two which could bring that down to around $350.
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Old 11-02-2008, 02:05 PM   #54
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Anyone here paying condo fees? My mom owns her condo outright but she still pays ever increasing condo fees (about $350 a month right now). So even though she owns, the condo fees make her feel like she is still paying a rent! I think that starting next year I will have to step in and help her pay for those fees because she is starting to struggle on her fixed income budget.

Many of the old-timers have moved on (many cashed out in the past few years) and they have been mostly replaced by yuppies who keep coming up with laundry lists of things they want to change (landscape improvements, larger elevators, etc...). Moving out is not really a viable option (for many reasons), so she is kinda stuck there...
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Old 11-02-2008, 02:50 PM   #55
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3200 sqft Condo in SW Ohio - No mortgage - two people retired for past 6 years-

Property Tax $390 /mo
Gas Heat 164
Electric 72
Water/Sewer 58
Cable/phone/cellphone/internet 150
House.Content Insurance 45
HOA (includes Structure Ins, Lawncare, Garbage, Pool, Streets, etc) 322
TOTAL $1,201/Month

I consider this cost to be a part of my "Infrastructure Cost"; with "Infrastructure" to include all those necessary basics that often are overlooked when thinking about our living expenses. For my budget, Infrastructure costs also include all auto costs and HC/LTC/LI/Medicare-Pt.B. Insurance costs and out-of-pocket medical costs. This seems to give me a stable yearly item for tracking and projecting expenses.

JohnP
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Old 11-02-2008, 05:12 PM   #56
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OK. Current value of home ~ $200K.
Invested in stocks, that would generate a return (this year) of maybe (-$50K).
I like this analysis. We are getting paid to live in our houses.
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Old 11-02-2008, 05:47 PM   #57
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275 tax
80 electric 180 summer AC
40 natural gas
90 cable
73 internet and phone
90 insurance
80 sewer water trash

728 total 828 total summer
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:08 PM   #58
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NH is a property tax hell state as we have no income of sales tax of my $792 a month, $333 is prop tax.
That's not that bad compared to some places in PA and NJ. In PA, my 1600 sq. ft. townhouse cost me $5800 a year in property taxes. The county, the school board, and the city each assesses a tax. In NJ, my sister's 2000 sq. ft. house cost her $12,000 a year in taxes. Both PA and NJ also have income taxes.
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:13 PM   #59
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OK. Current value of home ~ $200K.
Invested in stocks, that would generate a return (this year) of maybe (-$50K).
Invested in a 5% CD, it would net $10K.
But you have to live somewhere. $10K a year is $833 per month: not too much to spend on shelter, IMHO.
A paid-for modest house in a state with reasonable taxes and insurance offers a great return, but then we may risk turning this thread into another mortgage vs. no mortgage thread.
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:08 AM   #60
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The last couple of posts got me thinking and just for fun I took a look at the numbers of my current home which has been in my family for 2 generations. The house was purchased in 1964 for $11,000. I had a market analysis done two weeks ago when a real estate agent was across the street showing my neighbors house. $210,000 was the goal for the final sale price in the current market.

If I was to realize the last number the house appreciated at a rate of 6.9% annually over 44 years. However there was mortgage on it from '64 to '87, my father had a GI loan at 4 point something % and of course over the years there have been numerous expenses for upgrades and repairs.

Currently at $792 a month for "complete" (all utilities included) it is a bargain for the locale. Checking the newspaper 2 bedroom apartments are going for $800 - $1000 a month and I would still have to pay for electric, phone and cable.

I gave up a house in a divorce, similiar size, I inherited this one 4+ years ago. In 2006 I decided to stay in it for ER, spent $30K on fixups, upgrades (new kitchen, bath, basement waterproofing, electrical system) and addition of deck and hot tub. It is now providing about as low a cost shelter with enough room for my stuff as one can have in my community. From a pure cash outflow for decent shelter this is working for me. However it is apparent from all these posts that some areas of the country are better for ER for monthly cost of housing.
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