Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year.

modhatter · 10-17-2006, 12:20 PM

Thought we should see who our "most qifted" investors on this board were. Then ask them to share their strategy with us. Are they mostly in individual stocks or mutual funds or ETF's. What % of your portfolio to these assets.

Individual stocks
Mutual Funds
ETF's
Reits
Bonds
MLP
Canadian Royalty Trusts.
Real Estate (rentals etc.)
Cash (CD's and M Mkt.)

Never did a poll before. Hope I didn't screw it up.

brewer12345 · 10-17-2006, 12:24 PM

You forgot genitalia size...

modhatter · 10-17-2006, 12:29 PM

OK, go ahead.

Sam · 10-17-2006, 12:33 PM

Not sure what you're asking for.

"Total % return so far this year" might or might not be the same as "last year". So which number are you asking for?

ladelfina · 10-17-2006, 12:37 PM

or total this year AND last year (1/1/2005-10/17/2006)?

youbet · 10-17-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modhatter

Thought we should see who our "most qifted" investors on this board were. Then ask them to share their strategy with us. Are they mostly in individual stocks or mutual funds or ETF's.

I wouldn't refer to this as identifying the "most gifted" investors. Rather, it sounds like you want to know who currently has the highest short term returns.

I would think of the "most gifted" investors as those who have done the best job of getting to FI and are enjoying it the most! Just my point of view! 8)

LOL! · 10-17-2006, 01:04 PM

Total return since 12/31/2004?
Annualized?

As I always comment: One needs to name the methodology used to calculate the numbers. Some folks just don't do a trustworthy calculation. They enter the transactions wrong, they approximate the math, they include only IRAs, they look at only 401(k)s, they leave out their cash, they use there best account statements and ignore their worst ones, etc.

Even with measuring with genetalia size there are problems.

justin · 10-17-2006, 01:47 PM

I'm guessing I'm somewhere in the 17%+ segment (if we're talking TOTAL % return from 1/1/2005 to date).

SP 500 is up ~17% when dividends are included (based on the VFINX mutual fund).

modhatter · 10-17-2006, 02:21 PM

Well, I included last year with this year (up to Oct anyway) as I thought just this year might not be enough. I added the break down with stocks, mutual funds, etfs, bonds, cash etc., bucause someone who has even a 10% return and has 1/2 in bonds and cash type investments is doing pretty good most likely in their equity portion, right?

Then again, someone in a high percentage of canadioan royalty trusts, junk bonds and high yeilding MLP's will sqew that a bit too.

Wouldn't you all like to know who the "high achievers" are? Maybe we could learn a thing or to. Now don't get on the band wagon with,
"well it all depends on your time frame and what your retirement horizon is." Forget that." We all know that is a factor, so state it if you want. I still want to know who are the most savy investors on our board. Now someone all ready posted a gain of the next to the last highest.

Why don't you share more with us about your strategy. This is interesting stuff.

FinanceDude · 10-17-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modhatter

I still want to know who are the most savy investors on our board. Now someone all ready posted a gain of the next to the last highest.
Why don't you share more with us about your strategy.

Who said "savvy" had anything to do with short-term returns? It could be AVOIDING risk in poor markets, or any number of other things...........

Warren Buffett is a savvy investor, but probably wouldn't win if he posted in this thread...........maybe we need to define "savvy"..................

Last year, I made 11.65%, with a portfolio that had a beta of .73

This year, YTD, I am up 9.33%, with a portfolio that has a beta of .73

Guess I'm not "savvy".............

justin · 10-17-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

Last year, I made 11.65%, with a portfolio that had a beta of .73

This year, YTD, I am up 9.33%, with a portfolio that has a beta of .73

Not questioning the validity of your results, but how did you determine your return % and your beta? Some "fancy" software? A spreadsheet? Is that beta over the time period in question (ie - 0.73 for 1/1/05-12/31/05 and 0.73 for 1/1/06-10/16/06)?

My methodology, which I just started in the last 6 months, is to determine return % quarter by quarter using the formula:

[ (end balance - new contributions during quarter) / beginning balance ] - 1

There is built in error which should be around 10 basis points or less most quarters.

FinanceDude · 10-17-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin

Not questioning the validity of your results, but how did you determine your return % and your beta? Some "fancy" software? A spreadsheet? Is that beta over the time period in question (ie - 0.73 for 1/1/05-12/31/05 and 0.73 for 1/1/06-10/16/06)?

My methodology, which I just started in the last 6 months, is to determine return % quarter by quarter using the formula:

1 - [ (end balance - new contributions during quarter) / beginning balance ]

There is built in error which should be around 10 basis points or less most quarters.

I just use an excel speadsheet I made. 90% of my money is in funds, except for emergency cash reserves and a few stocks. I think your quarter end formula is close enough for normal tracking.

I look at return in relation to beta as a measurement for my portfolio. IMHO, if the S&P 500 Index, which has a beta of 1.00, returns 10%, and my portfolio, with a beta of .73 (27% less risk than the broad index) returns 9%, I think I'm doing pretty well.

I have some in index funds, but since I can buy pretty much any managed fund at NAV, I have some interesting fund names in my portfolio..............

Sam · 10-17-2006, 03:35 PM

I voted 17% or more. I don't see anything savy about it?

The OP said he wants YTD this year and total of last year. So my run-of-the-mill numbers are 11.5 (last year) and 10.5 (YTD).

May be he wants to know the UN-savy explanation for EVERYTHING below 17%?

I give up.

HFWR · 10-17-2006, 03:40 PM

10.8% last year, and 10.8% so far this year...

I'm not kidding... :P

mathjak107 · 10-17-2006, 06:13 PM

15% last year , 11% this year

ladelfina · 10-17-2006, 06:15 PM

What is the accepted way to determine beta? I saw one XL spreadsheet online that used five yearly comparisons.. another that used monthly or even weekly comparisons (to VFINX).

Assuming one could even find this data for each holding, or grind it out by hand from one's own transaction history, how can one justify using more data points (which make the beta calculation more reliable) if that means putting in a monthly or weekly yield, which could be in itself erratic due to dividend payouts. Would a big end-of-year payout make the stock look needlessly "volatile" that week? Would a stock that pays dividends look more volatile than a hypothetical one which never does, but whose price is exactly the same as the first stock at each data point? Can beta higher than 1 be only a one-way street--bad-- (i.e., a stock that has always historically performed better than the market is hence "more volatile")..? If beta only a measure of divergence, why is that important if you don't look at which way the diversion goes?

I apologize if any of these questions sound idiotic, but I've never thought about beta seriously before. I skimmed over the wikipedia entry but none of my questions above were really answered, that I could see at first glance. I don't have the stomach for crunching all these numbers if I'm going to get a misleading result so I will throw the question out there for some bean-counting maven...

12.02% for 2005 and 13.92% ytd.. 26.71% taken together. Beta? WhoTF knows...
Strategy? Absolutely none. Just "lots of equities I don't see a burning need to sell just yet". I LIKE the idea of index investing.. I UNDERSTAND the idea of index investing.. but maybe I'll just have to get hit by a Mack truck before making the switch. Or figure out this blasted "beta", which no doubt will make me see the error of my ways.

Mr._johngalt · 10-17-2006, 06:27 PM

I'm not saying this is a poor poll, but there are so many variables
(including ways to figure this) that I wouldn't know where to start,
and I'm a numbers guy.

JG

FinanceDude · 10-17-2006, 06:45 PM

Every mutual fund has a beta, you can find it anywhere.

I didn't mean to make this confusing..........

I remember 1998 and 1999......there were Internet mutual funds like Munder Net Net that had a beta of 2.0 or something.......

It's a measure of volatility, or if you like, risk. Most of the money I manage is for people who want low risk, so I try to construct portofolios that keep the beta in the .70-.85 range.

Look on Morningstar, they list betas for all funds.............

And YES, it's OK to have funds with betas over 1.00.....as long as you are aware of the risk..........

retire@40 · 10-17-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOL!

...As I always comment: One needs to name the methodology used to calculate the numbers. Some folks just don't do a trustworthy calculation. They enter the transactions wrong, they approximate the math, they include only IRAs, they look at only 401(k)s, they leave out their cash, they use there best account statements and ignore their worst ones, etc...

Yup, we had a question like this a few months ago and some people only included their non-cash investments, some didn't calculate a weighted-average return, some included their home, some didn't.

So I would expect a large variation in responses based on the wide variation of how people calculate their ROI. Nothing really useful or meaningful for comparison purposes without a method behind it.

View Poll Results: Who's our "PREMIER" investor on this board, and what do you like to invest in.
Less that 5%	2	3.39%
5 to 8%	16	27.12%
9 to 12%	31	52.54%
13 to 16%	4	6.78%
17% and over	6	10.17%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

10-17-2006, 12:20 PM	#1
modhatter Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 345	Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. Thought we should see who our "most qifted" investors on this board were. Then ask them to share their strategy with us. Are they mostly in individual stocks or mutual funds or ETF's. What % of your portfolio to these assets. Individual stocks Mutual Funds ETF's Reits Bonds MLP Canadian Royalty Trusts. Real Estate (rentals etc.) Cash (CD's and M Mkt.) Never did a poll before. Hope I didn't screw it up.

10-17-2006, 12:24 PM	#2
brewer12345 Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,248	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. You forgot genitalia size... __________________ “When you realize that you are one of the rare few who observe moral principles in their relationships with others, there is a temptation to sink into amorality, not out of conviction or pleasure but simply to avoid further pain, because there is no greater suffering than being an angel in hell, whereas a devil feels at home wherever he goes.” – Martin Page, How I Became Stupid

10-17-2006, 12:29 PM	#3
modhatter Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 345	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. OK, go ahead.

10-17-2006, 12:33 PM	#4
Sam Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,743	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. Not sure what you're asking for. "Total % return so far this year" might or might not be the same as "last year". So which number are you asking for?

10-17-2006, 12:37 PM	#5
ladelfina Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,652	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. or total this year AND last year (1/1/2005-10/17/2006)?

10-17-2006, 01:04 PM	#7
LOL! Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,298	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. Total return since 12/31/2004? Annualized? As I always comment: One needs to name the methodology used to calculate the numbers. Some folks just don't do a trustworthy calculation. They enter the transactions wrong, they approximate the math, they include only IRAs, they look at only 401(k)s, they leave out their cash, they use there best account statements and ignore their worst ones, etc. Even with measuring with genetalia size there are problems.

10-17-2006, 01:47 PM	#8
justin Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,010	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. I'm guessing I'm somewhere in the 17%+ segment (if we're talking TOTAL % return from 1/1/2005 to date). SP 500 is up ~17% when dividends are included (based on the VFINX mutual fund).

10-17-2006, 02:21 PM	#9
modhatter Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 345	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. Well, I included last year with this year (up to Oct anyway) as I thought just this year might not be enough. I added the break down with stocks, mutual funds, etfs, bonds, cash etc., bucause someone who has even a 10% return and has 1/2 in bonds and cash type investments is doing pretty good most likely in their equity portion, right? Then again, someone in a high percentage of canadioan royalty trusts, junk bonds and high yeilding MLP's will sqew that a bit too. Wouldn't you all like to know who the "high achievers" are? Maybe we could learn a thing or to. Now don't get on the band wagon with, "well it all depends on your time frame and what your retirement horizon is." Forget that." We all know that is a factor, so state it if you want. I still want to know who are the most savy investors on our board. Now someone all ready posted a gain of the next to the last highest. Why don't you share more with us about your strategy. This is interesting stuff.

10-17-2006, 03:35 PM	#13
Sam Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,743	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. I voted 17% or more. I don't see anything savy about it? The OP said he wants YTD this year and total of last year. So my run-of-the-mill numbers are 11.5 (last year) and 10.5 (YTD). May be he wants to know the UN-savy explanation for EVERYTHING below 17%? I give up.

10-17-2006, 03:40 PM	#14
HFWR Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: May 2005 Location: DFW Posts: 5,435	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. 10.8% last year, and 10.8% so far this year... I'm not kidding... :P __________________ Have Funds, Will Retire Two turntables and a microphone...

10-17-2006, 06:13 PM	#15
mathjak107 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,430	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. 15% last year , 11% this year

10-17-2006, 06:15 PM	#16
ladelfina Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,652	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. What is the accepted way to determine beta? I saw one XL spreadsheet online that used five yearly comparisons.. another that used monthly or even weekly comparisons (to VFINX). Assuming one could even find this data for each holding, or grind it out by hand from one's own transaction history, how can one justify using more data points (which make the beta calculation more reliable) if that means putting in a monthly or weekly yield, which could be in itself erratic due to dividend payouts. Would a big end-of-year payout make the stock look needlessly "volatile" that week? Would a stock that pays dividends look more volatile than a hypothetical one which never does, but whose price is exactly the same as the first stock at each data point? Can beta higher than 1 be only a one-way street--bad-- (i.e., a stock that has always historically performed better than the market is hence "more volatile")..? If beta only a measure of divergence, why is that important if you don't look at which way the diversion goes? I apologize if any of these questions sound idiotic, but I've never thought about beta seriously before. I skimmed over the wikipedia entry but none of my questions above were really answered, that I could see at first glance. I don't have the stomach for crunching all these numbers if I'm going to get a misleading result so I will throw the question out there for some bean-counting maven... 12.02% for 2005 and 13.92% ytd.. 26.71% taken together. Beta? WhoTF knows... Strategy? Absolutely none. Just "lots of equities I don't see a burning need to sell just yet". I LIKE the idea of index investing.. I UNDERSTAND the idea of index investing.. but maybe I'll just have to get hit by a Mack truck before making the switch. Or figure out this blasted "beta", which no doubt will make me see the error of my ways.

10-17-2006, 06:27 PM	#17
Mr._johngalt Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 927	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. I'm not saying this is a poor poll, but there are so many variables (including ways to figure this) that I wouldn't know where to start, and I'm a numbers guy. JG __________________ Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.

10-17-2006, 06:45 PM	#18
FinanceDude Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 7,421	Re: Your TOTAL % return so far this year and last year. Every mutual fund has a beta, you can find it anywhere. I didn't mean to make this confusing.......... I remember 1998 and 1999......there were Internet mutual funds like Munder Net Net that had a beta of 2.0 or something....... It's a measure of volatility, or if you like, risk. Most of the money I manage is for people who want low risk, so I try to construct portofolios that keep the beta in the .70-.85 range. Look on Morningstar, they list betas for all funds............. And YES, it's OK to have funds with betas over 1.00.....as long as you are aware of the risk.......... __________________ Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:) President Obama, please know that I will continue to cling to my guns and religion........:)