Your Welfare Dollars at Work

[Leonidas]

Bring on the pig!

 

[haha]

Sure it's ER relevant. Many of us have posted that they would love to live in a waterfront house in the Seattle area. This is just to show the way, in case funds are low. And other beloved ER pastimes would not be sacrificed- travel to foreign lands, expensive cars etc.

A low cost high consumption ER variant that does not require rake-making skills should be quite popular.

Ha

 

[Andre1969]

Well, these welfare cheats living in the nice waterfront home aren't working, so in a way, that's their version of FIRE! Although suddenly, a quote from "Smokey and the Bandit" is coming to mind... "A legend, and an out of work bum look an awful lot alike, Daddy"

 

[73ss454]

Does this discussion have anything to do with FIRE?

Yup, if we had the money back that the Government gave away for no apparent reason we could all retire earlier.

 

[ESRwannabe]

Does anyone know how these welfare benefits are means tested? If I had like $500k in stocks in a taxable account and they threw off 3% in divs, for $15k, and lets say I have a house paid off. Could I get some "free stuff"?

I don't want to be a scammer. I'd just like to get some of my money back. Nothing illegal, just from following the rules and requirements as they are spelled out.

 

[freebird5825]

Here is a summary of NYS's programs

New York State Food Stamps & Welfare Benefits | eHow.com

 

[REWahoo]

Slightly off subject, here's a Flake who is apparently living on a low income, didn't cheat the taxpayers, and knows how to make a deal:

Mother of six trades in $96k house for used minivan | Yahoo! News

 

[Animorph]

How much are we willing to give to the government for better enforcement or the rules? I don't see too much in the media distinguishing "spending" from "investment".

Are we willing to contribute directly to families or charities to take care of those who need a hand if we shut down the government programs that do it now? Would that be cheaper and easier and more efficient?

I'd be happy enough with a range of solutions. I imagine there are as many solutions as there are people. Good luck finding something even we could agree on.

 

[antmary]

Before this thread gets shut down...I want to get in my $.02.

I would rather focus on our many blessings. Sure, there are corrupt people, but really, there isn't too much I can do about it. I would rather pay attention to the here and now - I have my hands full managing Antmary's life. It seems to be part of the human condition to take advantage, but it also part of the human condition to visualize a better world, and to live in that reality.

I will say, though, that I am very grateful for our social safety net. During my travels, it has given me no joy to see old people begging, to see disabled children with few opportunities for treatment. I will venture to say that most places on earth don't even have 911.

 

[dgoldenz]

Does anyone know how these welfare benefits are means tested? If I had like $500k in stocks in a taxable account and they threw off 3% in divs, for $15k, and lets say I have a house paid off. Could I get some "free stuff"?

I don't want to be a scammer. I'd just like to get some of my money back. Nothing illegal, just from following the rules and requirements as they are spelled out.

Different rules in every state, but starting in 2014 you can get heavily subsidized health insurance in this scenario. You can have $50M in the bank with a $25k income and have the taxpayers foot the bill for your insurance.

 

[Midpack]

Before this thread gets shut down...I want to get in my $.02.

I would rather focus on our many blessings. Sure, there are corrupt people, but really, there isn't too much I can do about it. I would rather pay attention to the here and now - I have my hands full managing Antmary's life. It seems to be part of the human condition to take advantage, but it also part of the human condition to visualize a better world, and to live in that reality.

I will say, though, that I am very grateful for our social safety net. During my travels, it has given me no joy to see old people begging, to see disabled children with few opportunities for treatment. I will venture to say that most places on earth don't even have 911.

I suspect there are very few people who begrudge the social safety net our system provides - 'there but for the grace of...' And I think almost everyone is willing to pay taxes & fees to help those who really can't help themselves for whatever reason. But with 1 in 6 receiving benefits, people probably can't help but wonder if the corruption that you mention isn't more widespread than we should accept or want to afford. It's not hard to find examples of people who seem to be gaming the system, though it's very hard to know for sure. I've seen it at my local grocery store a hundred times, and cashiers will tell you they see it all the time.

(CNNMoney) -- One in six Americans is receiving help from the government, just as fiscal austerity threatens to reduce some of that aid.

 

[Koolau]

Are we willing to contribute directly to families or charities to take care of those who need a hand if we shut down the government programs that do it now? Would that be cheaper and easier and more efficient?

I'll probably bring on the pig, but I would answer "yes" to your question since you included the phrase "those who NEED a hand" (my emphasis). I just read that 46 million people in the US are on food stamps. IOW, from my FIRE budget (Ooops! sorry, but that's what I use to describe my income) I help pay for almost 1 in 8 of my fellow Americans to eat (probably better than I do based on what I see at Safeway most visits.) If my taxes go up, my FIRE budget takes a hit. Somehow seems related to FIRE, but then, what do I know?

By the way, I actually DO contribute directly to help feed hungry folks. I'm on track for 15% to 18% of my FIRE budget going to charity this year. Not bragging, just sayin. And, yes, the charities are more efficient. I know, 'cause I check them out (e.g., volunteer time or visit or read reports/evaluations etc. - as part of what I do now that I'm FIRE'd).

You know, honestly, I don't see this as different than witching about health insurance costs going up. We've raised that to an art form here. It's all about where our FIRE dollars go and what we get for them. I honestly mean no offense to those with differing opinions - just as I accept others opinions about gummint health care even if I disagree with how we do it.

 

[Bikerdude]

More good use of tax dollars:

CT News Junkie | Malloy: State Employees Defrauded Federal Food Assistance Program

"We operated the program by the federal rules, which did not require any immediate verification of income or assets,” Bremby said."

"This was the first time the state ran the program and it initially thought it would get about 3,800 people lining up for assistance, so it was taken by surprise from 23,000 showed up at its 12 regional offices."

 

[Midpack]

I don't know how you can talk about retirement without getting into Social Security, pensions, Medicare and health care - which unavoidably have political aspects. And I don't know how you can talk about retirement without getting into economic outlook which impacts investment returns, inflation, etc. - and unavoidably have political aspects.

It seems politics are closer to the surface here lately, though an old hand told me it's probably because we're coming up on a Presidential election (which makes sense).

I do appreciate that Moderators here have their hands full trying to draw those lines diplomatically, they're never going to be black and white. I've been on other forums where political discussions routinely get completely out of hand with chaos and namecalling that have eventually ruined those forums (members left in droves) - fortunately nothing like that here (believe me).

 

[Texas Proud]

I don't mind an individual applying for "benefits" they are legally entitled. It is the government that makes the "benefits" so easy to get is the problem. Then the people that do scam the system are allowed to get away with it for any number of reasons that boil down to the government pretty much does everything, except going to foreign countries and killing bad guys, poorly. There isn't much the government has made itself responsible for that isn't worse than it used to be. Health care, education, airport security, you name it. Sure it gets bigger and more money is thrown at it, but it doesn't get better and many times gets worse.

Maybe more people are being "helped" by welfare than were being helped by churches and service orgs in the past, but how much more does it cost? How much more fraud and waste is there? And how many more people have become dependant on the seemingly endless support from the government? I'm not saying we shouldn't have some kind of social safety net for those truly in need, but they way we do it now is wrong for so many reasons.

Not only that, but IMO there are people who would scam the system if provided by gvmt, but would not think of doing so to a church or charity...

(but then again you always hear about the little league who had everything stolen and can not even play.... so I may be wrong)....

 

[Hamlet]

While fraud certainly exists, I think the fundamental issue is that we have vast numbers of people in this country that don't make a wage sufficient to support a family, and have low prospects of having that change.

Think about all of the people you interact with in businesses day to day. All of the cashiers at Target, Walmart, grocery stores, fast food places, Home Depot, convenience stores, coffee shops, etc. All the telemarketers, all the people working in day care centers, and providing care in homes and nursing facilities.

Most of those people are very lucky if they make $10/hr. Most of them do not have health benefits. There are tens of millions of them. If they have children, they probably qualify for SNAP (food stamps). Looking at the math of their situation, I don't feel that most of them are "gaming the system."

Food stamps used to be a program for people who weren't working. The painful fact today is that it is now a program that is used to provide support to people who are working.

I suspect there are very few people who begrudge the social safety net our system provides - 'there but for the grace of...' And I think almost everyone is willing to pay taxes & fees to help those who really can't help themselves for whatever reason. But with 1 in 6 receiving benefits, people probably can't help but wonder if the corruption that you mention isn't more widespread than we should accept or want to afford. It's not hard to find examples of people who seem to be gaming the system, though it's very hard to know for sure. I've seen it at my local grocery store a hundred times, and cashiers will tell you they see it all the time.

 

[M Paquette]

It seems politics are closer to the surface here lately, though an old hand told me it's probably because we're coming up on a Presidential election (which makes sense).

Yup. Soon, I plan on crawling into a hole, and pulling in the hole after me 'for the duration'. I'll come out after the smoldering embers of the Internet have cooled.

I've been through this drill on message boards, and earlier on USENET newsgroups, every election cycle since 1984. :-(

 

[lhamo]

This article, which was the first one I read about this situation, names the couple (the male partner is apparently a successful chiropractor) and indicates that they may not actually be married (or may have hidden that fact when requesting benefits).

Welfare fraud investigators raid $1.2 million Lake Washington home - seattlepi.com


I wonder what percentage of welfare spending goes toward monitoring and fraud prevention. This is one of the catch 22 elements of the situation. There will always be some people who try to cheat the system. So what percentage of limited resources do you put into trying to prevent/catch that. Seems like there was not enough due diligence done in this case, though.

 

[REWahoo]

And now for something related but entirely different:

A Texas woman who for months was unable to qualify for food stamps pulled a gun in a state welfare office and staged a seven-hour standoff with police that ended with her shooting her two children before killing herself, officials said Tuesday.

The Associated Press: State: Mom who shot kids, self denied food stamps

 

[nun]

Yup. Soon, I plan on crawling into a hole, and pulling in the hole after me 'for the duration'. I'll come out after the smoldering embers of the Internet have cooled.

I've been through this drill on message boards, and earlier on USENET newsgroups, every election cycle since 1984. :-(

Yep me too, about 25% of the posts here fill me with some hope, the rest just make this old socialist smile.

 

[Nuiloa]

And then there's the disgruntled snake charmer in India who was denied a land grant and let 40 cobras loose in the state tax office.

Not a bad idea. Imagine the potential market in importing cobras!

 

[antmary]

And now for something related but entirely different:

The Associated Press: State: Mom who shot kids, self denied food stamps

 

[MichaelB]

Yup. Soon, I plan on crawling into a hole, and pulling in the hole after me 'for the duration'. I'll come out after the smoldering embers of the Internet have cooled.

I've been through this drill on message boards, and earlier on USENET newsgroups, every election cycle since 1984. :-(

Got any spare room in there?

 

[Mulligan]

This article, which was the first one I read about this situation, names the couple (the male partner is apparently a successful chiropractor) and indicates that they may not actually be married (or may have hidden that fact when requesting benefits).

Welfare fraud investigators raid $1.2 million Lake Washington home - seattlepi.com

I wonder what percentage of welfare spending goes toward monitoring and fraud prevention. This is one of the catch 22 elements of the situation. There will always be some people who try to cheat the system. So what percentage of limited resources do you put into trying to prevent/catch that. Seems like there was not enough due diligence done in this case, though.

I have often wondered that too since, you always here about cutting waste and fraud, to help balance the budget, but I dont often see a plan. The system to me anyways seems set up to assist more than catch the fraudulant activity. If you create a fruad department, well you might just increase fraud and inefficiency How about highering retired accountants and policemen who work for free, but get 25 cents on the dollar for every recoverable dollar of fraud. Could possibly make many people millionaires and save government millions at the same time!

 

[haha]

I have often wondered that too since, you always here about cutting waste and fraud, to help balance the budget, but I dont often see a plan. The system to me anyways seems set up to assist more than catch the fraudulant activity. If you create a fruad department, well you might just increase fraud and inefficiency How about highering retired accountants and policemen who work for free, but get 25 cents on the dollar for every recoverable dollar of fraud. Could possibly make many people millionaires and save government millions at the same time!

Great idea, but of course it runs against the bureaucratic imperative, which is to increase budget and headcount without cease.

ha