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Old 07-16-2014, 09:12 AM   #61
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Wow. So few giving up citizenship compared to the millions clamoring to get in. Something must be OK about living here for at least a few of us.
The people giving up their citizen ship fall into two categories. A small number are the mega-rich that buy citizenship in a tax friendly country. They drop their citizenship primarily to save money.

The second group is more numerous. Incomes in this group can vary widely but it includes those with duel citizenship or those married to non-US citizens that don't intend to return to the US. Here the hassles of the "reforms" force either a lot of extra paperwork or dropping of US citizenship. In some cases people have to drop the US citizenship to keep their non-US banking accounts. The US taxing of all income and not just US income is also part of the problem.

Once again, the law of unintended consequences takes over or maybe the people making the law/regulation didn't care what happened.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:22 AM   #62
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I am not adventurous enough in my old age to move to another country. I'm an introvert as it is, and wouldn't want to give up the small circle of friends I have, or the familiarity of where I live. Occasional travel will serve the purpose of adventure and culture, but I'm sticking close to "home".
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:19 AM   #63
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The people giving up their citizen ship fall into two categories. A small number are the mega-rich that buy citizenship in a tax friendly country. They drop their citizenship primarily to save money.
Yeah, I love it when the "tax the rich" advocates think that the uber-wealthy will just sit and pay the extra taxes. They have options the rest of us don't have.

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Earlier someone mentioned the British retirement colonies in Spain. That one would seem to be easy to understand, given English weather.
A few years ago I read a sad tale in the London Times real estate section about a retirement colony in Spain that had been declared to be against zoning regulations. Unfortunately, many UK residents had paid for homes built there and they were nearing completion. They were left with nothing. Buying property anywhere has its perils (including the US, of course), but I just can't get comfortable with buying property in another country other than Canada. I was going to mention Switzerland (out of my reach, of course) but they have some pretty onerous taxes on property owners.
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:46 AM   #64
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... A few years ago I read a sad tale in the London Times real estate section about a retirement colony in Spain that had been declared to be against zoning regulations. Unfortunately, many UK residents had paid for homes built there and they were nearing completion. They were left with nothing...
I read a similar story, except that the land a home was built on turned out to have no clear title and was on public land. The Brit buyers were out a couple hundred thousand Euros.

Many Britons buy their retirement home in Spain, and I can see why. It's relatively close to home, has nice weather, the price is reasonable, and the cost of living is not bad at all compared to elsewhere in the EU.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:01 AM   #65
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What little research I did on retiring abroad resulted in canning the idea rather quickly. At the end of the day, it came down to most of the reasons cited in the article. Now, if I live in weather challenging places like North Dakota, I'd be more inclined to look elsewhere for RE. But I live in BA and can afford to retire in the same place. If I am suddenly left with only $200k and became single, I will reconsider living abroad in places where $2000/month goes a long way.

When the thread was first posted, I thought it'd go about 20 posts before being shut down. Kudos for posters here exercising moderation. Let's close the thread before it gets bad now that I had my say .... .


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Old 07-16-2014, 11:06 AM   #66
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If you've lived in a metropolitan area, you can certainly move to lower-cost areas within the lower 48.

But depending on your interests, you may find places overseas which are more interesting, putting aside what difference there may be in COL.

I don't think people retire to Central America or Asia purely for cost reasons. There are other appealing aspects to those locations for them.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:21 AM   #67
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Way back when I was initially doing background research for ER I got a subscription to International Living for one year. Based on my knowledge of several countries, including the one I grew up in, I realized that the information was skewed, missing important details and presented with rose tinted glasses. Emigrating as an older adult is fraught with many pitfalls and is best suited to those who are already well travelled and will not be fazed by cultural differences. Tax considerations are another issue. For US citizens, there is, of course, FATCA. For Canadians, there is the "deemed disposition" rule, where all investments are deemed to have been disposed of on leaving the country, usually resulting in a huge tax bill and seriously denting the portfolio. Financially, socially and emotionally, I believe that if you are going to emigrate, it's preferable to do it earlier in life when you have a more open mind and less baggage.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:30 AM   #68
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I don't think people retire to Central America or Asia purely for cost reasons. There are other appealing aspects to those locations for them.

I'd be curious to hear some of these stories if anyone is willing to share.

I could easily stay extended periods of time in Asia, but I think I'd be hard pressed to make it permanent. It'd be interesting to hear from others that have made this choice and their reasons.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:56 AM   #69
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I wanted to live/retire abroad for just about my entire life. My husband wanted to retire to San Diego, which is more or less my boring old home town, for most of his life. Oh well, it could be worse ... I could still be w*rking.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:57 AM   #70
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I wanted to live/retire abroad for just about my entire life. My husband wanted to retire to San Diego, which is more or less my boring old home town, for most of his life. Oh well, it could be worse ... I could still be w*rking.
Definitely a first world problem!
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:07 PM   #71
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Life is very predictable in the US and most other developed societies. I found living in Latin America to be more spontaneous and uncertain, and with a much greater element of live the present vs plan the future. Many travelers find this frustrating, and on occasion I did as well, but I do miss it.
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:11 PM   #72
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I wanted to live/retire abroad for just about my entire life. My husband wanted to retire to San Diego, which is more or less my boring old home town, for most of his life. Oh well, it could be worse ... I could still be w*rking.
DW and I have the mirror image of your situation. I'm working on getting her to go to somewhere abroad for a month (or more) and be sort of local. We'd at least get a more thorough view of the area and culture. I'd get a travel fix and she'd get to "go home."
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:18 PM   #73
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Life is very predictable in the US and most other developed societies...
Ah, perhaps you have hit the nail, or one of them, on the head.

I think that now that I am older, I no longer welcome or can handle the big surprises in life. I can find enough pleasures in a serendipitous find of a quaint town, a lovely stream by the side of the road where I stop my RV for lunch, a nice restaurant found via Yelp or Urbanspoon. Occasionally, some of that, I stumble across in my foreign travel, and it is enough. I know I do not need the hassle of finding a good carpenter or plumber or calling the police in a foreign place. These latter chores are hard enough as is, in the US.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:37 PM   #74
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I wanted to live/retire abroad for just about my entire life. My husband wanted to retire to San Diego, which is more or less my boring old home town, for most of his life. Oh well, it could be worse ... I could still be w*rking.
What about some extended travel? We live in north coastal San Diego and while we love it here (I grew up here too), we also do love to get away from time to time and experience the rest of the world. Currently planning a three month out of country stay to see how it goes, will try to be "living" there rather than being "tourists". Except for the air fare we figure we can keep our expenses to no more than if we stay here (we will see).

Doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. And after a few extended travel experiences like this, one might find they really do want the excitement of becoming an expat, or that home is not such a bad place after all.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:08 PM   #75
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Life is very predictable in the US and most other developed societies. I found living in Latin America to be more spontaneous and uncertain, and with a much greater element of live the present vs plan the future. Many travelers find this frustrating, and on occasion I did as well, but I do miss it.
One of the language issues is that manana means not today when talking about a commitment from a vendor/supplier! So people continually get frustrated when things don't come/get done in the morrow.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:05 PM   #76
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One of the language issues is that manana means not today when talking about a commitment from a vendor/supplier! So people continually get frustrated when things don't come/get done in the morrow.
. So true.

Not just maņana. The word "soon". Ahora, ahorita, pronto are a few versions. Soon could be in a couple of minutes or a week from Monday. To live there and not get overwhelmed with stress you not only need to know what it means, you also have to be able to live with it.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:13 PM   #77
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I believe that if you are going to emigrate, it's preferable to do it earlier in life when you have a more open mind and less baggage.
It certainly was straightforward when I moved to the US since I had only about $1000 to my name. Moving back home or elsewhere carries tax issues from the US (and I'm sure that there would also be implications in other countries) because I don't have only a $1000 to my name which is a good thing.

I would have moved a long time ago I think to experience other places but got married to someone who was not so inclined to move anywhere. I still would like to experience more of the world from the standpoint of a non tourist but that seems to be unlikely unless I was single again and I don't have intentions of doing that
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Old 07-16-2014, 05:14 PM   #78
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Definitely a first world problem!
First world, one percent division.
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Old 07-16-2014, 06:26 PM   #79
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When I was in India on a business trip, I read a wonderful tongue-in-cheek article in the Times of India to the effect that the developing world should outsource its nursing homes to India. They mentioned the natural beauty, the reverence for the aged and the low land and labor costs, and pointed out what an interesting place it would be for the kids and grandkids to come visit. I liked the idea of wonderful Indian food 3X a day!

Now, 3 months after the birth of my lovely granddaughter, I have my doubts about how often my son and DIL would bring her from Des Moines to Delhi for a visit!
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Old 07-16-2014, 06:36 PM   #80
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The people giving up their citizen ship fall into two categories. A small number are the mega-rich that buy citizenship in a tax friendly country. They drop their citizenship primarily to save money.
I am appalled that is happening. We should track every one of them down, bring them back to USA, and make them work at McDonalds for each year they spent their lives as US citizen. Of course, upon return, their asset are immediately confiscated to offset US budget deficit. Who is with me on this? I am contacting my congress person to get a law passed on this.
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