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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-15-2005, 08:29 AM   #21
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

OAP, maybe it is time for your friend to try to get together a family meeting with mom and sibs. There are so many complications here, including the stepfather and his family. If the family is too disfunctional to have a productive meeting, then your friend probably can't count on anything but future trouble.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-15-2005, 08:56 AM   #22
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

JG,
Likewise, my mom is now 76 and has always just ran her camping gear store. *Now she is starting to make some really questionable decisions about her business, home and money. *After I get back from the job gig, I'm going to visit her and try to help her make some good decisions.

It will get messy, I've been gone from there for 30 years or more and I can just hear the dear siblings now, "he comes back here and starts meddling in mom's affairs", "yack, yack, yadda, yadds" ,etc.

Problem areas */ *My goal
1. She has no will at present. / * (I'll get her a will) *,that should cause fireworks.
2. Business needs a transition plan. */ *(I'll discuss whether she sells or turns it over)
3. Home needs refurbing. */ *(I'll see what she wants done and arrange some contractors)

The real kicker is that this is not a feable older woman, she goes to work everyday. *This is simply that none of my siblings will lift a finger to help her.

Ahhh, family.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-15-2005, 09:03 AM   #23
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Martha,
Thanks for reminding me that this thread is about helping my friend. I started thinking about my own and I starting to see my own future (scary as well).

But, on topic. Thanks for the suggestion that they hold a family meeting. I don't know if it's possible but if it is it's a good start. I only know him and only have his descriptions of the family but I really think the family is very dissfunctional and coniving. Glad it's not mine.

I'll pass you suggestion on to him today as I plan to phone him about something else.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-15-2005, 10:07 AM   #24
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Quote:
Having only one child makes this stufff a lot less messy. However,
that is a pretty cold system of family planning IMHO.
Can't say I planned to have one child soley to avoid this type of mess just pointed out that with one child the mess should be kept to a minimum. My wife and I never wanted a big family and are content with one child for so many other personal reasons.
My mom on the other hand always said no man ever "qualified" in order for her to have more kids. I am 100% she wasn't thinking about estate planning either :

Quote:
What happens if you die early, your wife remarries and has more children........?

What happens if the marriage breaks up, and you start two new families......?
If I die early and my wife remarries then that is her ball to manage. Can't plan for too many things when your dead and others keep living.

If the marriage breaks up (highly doubt it) then the assets get split and we move on. Of course this is my reasoning after 7 yrs of marriage with little to no arguments during that time.


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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-15-2005, 11:28 AM   #25
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

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Originally Posted by Arif
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It will serve him well to learn these things from you. Capitalism in theory gets taught (one hopes) in school, but in practice, you'll be a far better teacher and he'll learn more from you.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-15-2005, 11:38 AM   #26
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
A friend in La Jolla, asked me for advice.* He moved from England to the US in 2004 under the understanding that his mother was giving him (pre-will) a condo worth $700k in La Jolla that would have been his when her will is probated.* He understood that he could live there free until she deceased.* He put about $40k of renovation to refurb a dated condo.

Anyone have advice on how he can protect the money he has put into the house?
He might be able to put a "mechanic's lien" against the property to recoup his investment.

Since he's lived there rent free, he might have "squatter's rights."* Time to consult an attorney.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-15-2005, 11:55 AM   #27
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Patrick,
Thanks for the lein idea. I'm calling him in about an hour and give him some feedback.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 03:44 AM   #28
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

I would also recommend family / eastate mediation for this.
An experienced mediator can work with the family to find a solution that is meeting everybody's interest and is open on the table.

1on1 discussions between parent and kid(s) will probably lead to nothing and destroy the last bits of trust between the siblings.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 08:05 AM   #29
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

To all who provided suggestions, Thanks.

I talked to him yesterday and he is leaning toward just taking his lumps on the money used for refurbishment. He and his wife have decided that the condo is too small for them anyway and they are going to move soon.

He said "I feel a bit of freedom just having made that decision." I took that to mean free of the petty bickering going on. He also said he will remain cordial to his mother and sisters but he now wants some distance from them both physically and mentally.

In my case, when my mother's will is read I hope it reads, "my estate is to be liquidated and all proceeds are to be given to the RSPCA." I can just picture my youngest sister (spendthrift extraodinaire) fainting.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 08:15 AM   #30
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
To all who provided suggestions, Thanks.

I talked to him yesterday and he is leaning toward just taking his lumps on the money used for refurbishment.* He and his wife have decided that the condo is too small for them anyway and they are going to move soon.

He said "I feel a bit of freedom just having made that decision."* I took that to mean free of the petty bickering going on.* He also said he will remain cordial to his mother and sisters but he now wants some distance from them both physically and mentally.

In my case, when my mother's will is read I hope it reads, "my estate is to be liquidated and all proceeds are to be given to the RSPCA."* I can just picture my youngest sister (spendthrift extraodinaire) fainting.
I know what he means about relief in having made a decision.

My family situation is pretty messy now. DW opines that she thought she was marrying into a stable traditional middle class family. (Hers is
dysfunctional). Now she thinks mine may be worse than hers.
Could be.

JG
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 08:23 AM   #31
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

I'm not going into it because it'll bore you, but DW had a pi**ing contest just last night with her siblings. I've had one or two with my brothers. And to think, we grew up with "Leave it to Beaver". Screw Beaver. Oops, that's almost funny!

Anyway, siblings will manipulate, if given the chance. Almost all the bickering is petty, and it's about control. Back to my rule. Independence. If you don't need 'em, they can't rule you. Become independent, financially, physically, mentally.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 08:36 AM   #32
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43
I'm not going into it because it'll bore you, but DW had a pi**ing contest just last night with her siblings.* I've had one or two with my brothers.* And to think, we grew up with "Leave it to Beaver".* Screw Beaver.* Oops, that's almost funny!

Anyway, siblings will manipulate, if given the chance.* Almost all the bickering is petty, and it's about control.* Back to my rule.* Independence.* If you don't need 'em, they can't rule you.* Become independent, financially, physically, mentally.*
And never forget.............Living well really is the best revenge.

JG
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 08:45 AM   #33
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Eagle43, not almost, that was funny. *Screw beaver is right. *And you are spot-on as the Aussies would say, INDEPENDENCE!!!!!!!!

My youngest sister is a 4th degree dan in emotional blackmail. *My 76 year old mother is the softest target you could find. *Collectively, the other siblings despise the sight of the younger sister. *She considers it petty jealousy on their part.

I remain convinced that my best course is to remain as far away as possible.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 08:47 AM   #34
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Eagle43, yeah, living well is such sweet revenge but it also make you the deep pockets target.

I'm now thought of as "Deep Pockets". Nothing to do with Watergate.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 09:48 AM   #35
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

An uncle of mine got stuck sorting out a situation where several of his youngest sibs (8 or 9 kids I think) were "helping Mom manage her money" and "borrowing" significant amounts of it for their own use. It came to light when Mom needed something and couldn't understand why her bank account was so empty.

Much rancor ensued among the various children, with the "helpers" put out that their sibs would even begin to think they had no intentions of eventually paying back the "loans" while the others were shocked/disgusted that the sibs could do that to Mom.

From the little I heard it seemed like a situation you'd pay money to avoid.

cheers,
Michael
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 12:03 PM   #36
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Michael,
My mother is reaching the age where I'm worrying a bit about her ability to fend off my spendthrift siblings.

A general question fo everyone:

Is there a way to set up something to protect an elderly, financially niave, loving mother?

1. Can her home be paid off and made untouchable as far as refinancing?
2. Is there someway to force VISA, etc. to stop giving her credit cards?
3. Are there reliable ways to insure her bills each month by setting up a funded account that only pays lights, water, gas, ets.?

I'm thinking of trying this when I get back from a work gig.
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 12:53 PM   #37
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Someone was quoted "there is nothing like a large loving, close family..... in a city far away from you"

Kitty
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 01:15 PM   #38
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty
Someone was quoted "there is nothing like a large loving, close family..... in a city far away from you" Kitty
Boy, this one was going to keep me awake at night.

"Happiness is having a large, loving, caring, close-knit family in another city." - George Burns
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 01:18 PM   #39
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

OAP, You might see about getting het to give you power of attorney for her. *You probably *won't be able to get a conservatorship until the person becomes incompetent to manage their affairs. *At that time as conservator you'd become the legal guardian (and that can be of either or both the person as well as the estate).

I don't know if it is possible for a competent individual to put all the burden on a legal representative and repudiate any actions they might take personally.

caveat: I'm not an attorney nor have I played one on television. *

cheers,
Michael
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....
Old 08-17-2005, 01:37 PM   #40
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Re: Advice on sibling manipulation.....

OAP, maybe your mother would be willing to transfer much of her assets into a trust, with her and someone else as trustee. Mortgaging or transfering the home, could require both trustees to agree. You might be able to work some kind of bank account and bill pay arrangement into it too.

Can't think of how to stop the credit card solicitations.
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