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Old 12-03-2013, 08:28 AM   #41
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Because I care about the increasingly raw deal the American worker is getting and that the balance of power between labor and employer is skewed way too far in favor of employer these days. If many workers realistically had much of a say about whether they accepted a job that required them to work on Sundays and holidays, I'd shrug and say, "whatever." But many of them went to work for places that always used to close on major holidays, so when they accepted the job they had that as a reasonable expectation. But now the rules have changed and it's not easy to respond by simply quitting and finding another comparable (or better) job that won't make them work on major holidays.

People can say that "you choose to work there", and that is technically true... but these days too many people work where they can find work and have very little leverage to find something else. Employers know that and they are (mostly) exploiting the hell out of it. I don't want to be part of encouraging that trend.

That said, I'm not criticizing others who shop on Thanksgiving Day, just that I disagree with it and I am free to vote with my dollars just as everyone else is.
We get what we deserve? Macy's CEO: Thanksgiving Shifts Were Employees' Choice - Daily Globe
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:32 AM   #42
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Maybe, maybe not. But is it, really? Again, the balance of power is so skewed in favor of management these days that employees may be afraid to say they aren't willing to work 24x365. There may be a fear -- and a rational, reasonable one IMO -- that saying they don't want to work on a major holiday is going to be a black mark in their personnel file. It certainly would limit their chances for promotion.

I do agree that some people -- especially those without family close by and can use the extra money -- would understandably jump at the chance to work a major holiday for (say) time and a half. But is that the norm? Are there enough people like that to fully staff a big box retailer that no one who would rather have the day off has to work that day? I'd like to think so, but I have a hard time believing that.

The bottom line is that I'm not trying to convert others to my way of thinking or suggesting that others are wrong -- so I'd like the same courtesy in return.
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:35 AM   #43
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Maybe, maybe not. But is it, really? Again, the balance of power is so skewed in favor of management these days that employees may be afraid to say they aren't willing to work 24x365. There may be a fear -- and a rational, reasonable one IMO -- that saying they don't want to work on a major holiday is going to be a black mark in their personnel file. It certainly would limit their chances for promotion.

I do agree that some people -- especially those without family close by and can use the extra money -- would understandably jump at the chance to work a major holiday for (say) time and a half. But is that the norm? Are there enough people like that to fully staff a big box retailer that no one who would rather have the day off has to work that day? I'd like to think so, but I have a hard time believing that.
I was an employer for 35 years. Other than Christmas, with very few exceptions (maybe 10%), my folks fought to work holidays for the premium pay, and most were outraged if they missed an opportunity. We had to negotiate the holiday schedule in advance annually to make sure there was absolute parity across shifts for holiday work opportunities. The desire may be more acute now, but it was always that way over my career...it was by no means "some people" - it was an overwhelming majority with the possible exception of Christmas. Christmas was about 50/50 for those who wanted to work for the premium, but I shut the plant down for Christmas Eve & Day every year because I thought they should be with their families one holiday each year. And you guessed it, half my employees were mad at me...

If you can find a case where employees are forced or somehow coerced to work holidays for normal pay, I might agree. There are usually/always incentives of some sort IME.

Just like holiday shopping, what many people say and what they do aren't always the same...
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:37 AM   #44
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I was an employer for 35 years. Other than Christmas, with very few exceptions (maybe 10%), my folks fought to work holidays for the premium pay, and most were outraged if they missed an opportunity. We had to negotiate the holiday schedule in advance to make sure there was absolute parity across shifts for holiday work opportunities. The desire may be more acute now, but it was always that way over my career...it was by no means "some people" - it was an overwhelming majority with the possible exception of Christmas.
If someone said they didn't want to work holidays, would that have made them less promotable in your eyes? If you had to choose between laying off one of two employees, would the unwillingness of one of them to work holidays be a "tie breaker", all else being relatively equal?
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:51 AM   #45
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If someone said they didn't want to work holidays, would that have made them less promotable in your eyes? If you had to choose between laying off one of two employees, would the unwillingness of one of them to work holidays be a "tie breaker", all else being relatively equal?
Absolutely not in both cases believe it or not, and my track record would show that without exception. Again aside from Christmas, 90% of my employees, in four different states over my career would have been very upset if I didn't let them work holidays with premium pay.

And I'm no saint, or that unusual despite what you read. We rarely hear about good doctors, lawyers, politicians, corporate folks, workers or any other line of work - typically we hear most about the worst exceptions. And it may skew our views of others somewhat. Workers pay has not kept up due to global competition in large part, not simply Corporate greed. However, I will agree those at the very top have rewarded themselves inordinately for decades. But that's not 99% of the workforce including many white collar workers. I am not completely unsympathetic to your POV...
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:55 AM   #46
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Flash... News...

Jeff Bezos, just played the biggest April Fool's Joke in history. A one minute interview, a toy helicopter,and a hundred million dollars woth of advertising...
on Cyber Monday!

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Old 12-03-2013, 09:18 AM   #47
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Growing up in a family that observed the Sabbath, our day of rest was from Friday evening until sunset on Saturday. That meant no shopping or doing errands during that time period. And for many years we had Blue Laws in MA that prevented stores from being open on Sunday. So that pretty much meant weekends were off limit for shopping. When the laws changed and stores were allowed to operate on Sunday, I remember hearing the same feedback about how we were preventing people from having a day off. But not everyone needs their day off to be on Sunday.

Over my career I've always had Christmas off because I have always worked in an office environment which kept a traditional holiday schedule. Had someone offered to let me work, even at straight time, I would have been happy to. When you don't celebrate Christmas, about the only thing left to do is go out for Chinese food, which has pretty much become my tradition each year.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:22 AM   #48
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Flash... News...

Jeff Bezos, just played the biggest April Fool's Joke in history. A one minute interview, a toy helicopter,and a hundred million dollars woth of advertising...
on Cyber Monday!

Yes he's managed to get lots of free advertising. Smart man.

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Old 12-03-2013, 05:33 PM   #49
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Again aside from Christmas, 90% of my employees, in four different states over my career would have been very upset if I didn't let them work holidays with premium pay.
I believe you. I worked as a police officer and of course knew going in that working holidays came with the territory so it never occurred to to me to complain about it. But since it paid straight time plus time and a half there was never a shortage of people willing to work holidays, generally even Thanksgiving and Christmas. Especially the first few lean years.
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:49 PM   #50
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:47 PM   #51
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I believe you. I worked as a police officer and of course knew going in that working holidays came with the territory so it never occurred to to me to complain about it. But since it paid straight time plus time and a half there was never a shortage of people willing to work holidays, generally even Thanksgiving and Christmas. Especially the first few lean years.
When working as a clerk while in college, I thought I had died and gone to heaven when I had the chance to work on Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, and more. I would have gladly done it for straight time, though I think I probably got a little extra that made this opportunity even sweeter. Just having the extra hours (= extra money!) was wonderful since normally I was just a part-timer and struggling to make ends meet.
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:52 PM   #52
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I suppose I could open up my Macbook Air and log onto Amazon and do the same with my Windows 7 desktop and zero in on the same item to see the price difference?

I can't believe Amazon or any online seller would have different pricing for customers with different OS's.
They'll pin your IP address. A better test would be to use one machine at home and then try the Air at the library or Starbucks or wherever.

A great FF Add-On is Camelizer, which charts Amazon prices.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...ce-history-ch/

There's User Agent Switcher so your browser can be a phone or iPad or desktop.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...er/?src=search
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Old 12-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #53
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They'll pin your IP address. A better test would be to use one machine at home and then try the Air at the library or Starbucks or wherever.

A great FF Add-On is Camelizer, which charts Amazon prices.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...ce-history-ch/

There's User Agent Switcher so your browser can be a phone or iPad or desktop.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...er/?src=search
Done! Very cool! Thank You!!
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:33 AM   #54
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They'll pin your IP address. A better test would be to use one machine at home and then try the Air at the library or Starbucks or wherever.

A great FF Add-On is Camelizer, which charts Amazon prices.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...ce-history-ch/

There's User Agent Switcher so your browser can be a phone or iPad or desktop.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...er/?src=search
Camelizer is great fun - doesn't track everything on Amazon - like 50 grams of Gallium - but now that there's an inquiry maybe it does track it. Thanks! Good link.
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