Another Exciting Episode in Audrey's Great RV Adventure

[Martha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyduke a similar story can be found at the rv dreams site...

Excellent website heyduke! They use inflatable kayaks like I do, their east Texas kayaking sounds interesting and a possibility for this spring. A lot of good information on their website.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyduke Interesting following your thread here on your thoughts about buying a class c... I too am going thru the same mental issues and have read the miranda blog above...

Well, it's Audrey's thread which I might have inadvertently hijacked because of my current obsession about RV. I don't think Audrey would mind though.

I started thinking about RV last year, shortly after discovering this forum. It was in the following thread that I stumbled across Martha's mentioning of Andy Baird's blog: Motorhome purchase? Pros/Cons!

Besides being an good writer and illustrator, and apparently a nice man, Andy looked like a "geek" (in a good way), and that appealed to me. By reading his blog from the beginning, I followed his learning process about full-time RV'ing. Yes, he managed to ER and enjoyed life on not much money. I agree wholeheartedly with Martha that Andy's blog makes good reading and there's a lot to learn from his Web site.

I have read that "George and Tioga" is one of the most followed blogs on RV. He even shared what he earned from the ads on his site ($1K/month). I enjoyed his early posts where he was learning the rope about RV'ing.


By the way, I did a bit of research on travel trailer towing, and would like to share some videos I found about the peril of towing without proper equipment, undersized towing vehicle, or improper center of gravity. Going to and from my boonies home in the AZ high country, I have been passed on a hilly highway by aggressive drivers of pickup trucks towing a TT, and with their TT wagging like a dog tail behind them. I did not understand why they did not feel or see the TT swaying behind them. Were they so excited about being able to pass other cars that they were oblivious to the imminent danger they posed to themselves and other cars?

YouTube - The Little Car that Couldn't

YouTube - Trailer Sway Control Demonstration

YouTube - Winds of change

YouTube - Unstable caravan-auto jack-knife. Test by Olle Nordström.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound By the way, I did a bit of research on travel trailer towing, and would like to share some videos I found about the peril of towing without proper equipment, undersized towing vehicle, or improper center of gravity. Going to and from my boonies home in the AZ high country, I have been passed on a hilly highway by aggressive drivers of pickup trucks towing a TT, and with their TT wagging like a dog tail behind them. I did not understand why they did not feel or see the TT swaying behind them. Were they so excited about being able to pass other cars that they were oblivious to the imminent danger they posed to themselves and other cars?

I think that this is much ado about nothing. Towing is like everything else: idiots will do what idiots do; the rest of us will read up as necessary and do it safely. I don't know squat about towing, but have had no problem figuring it out and doing it safely. Of course, I actually gave some thought to matching my trailer to my tow vehicle and learned what to do to keep it safe. If you decide to skip that stuff, you take your chances.

In short, I do not find towing to be much of an issue even with a tow vehicle that isn't really designed for heavy duty towing (minivan).

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 I think that this is much ado about nothing. Towing is like everything else: idiots will do what idiots do; the rest of us will read up as necessary and do it safely... In short, I do not find towing to be much of an issue even with a tow vehicle that isn't really designed for heavy duty towing (minivan).

Exactly! In posting these interesting videos, I certainly did not imply that one cannot tow anything unless he has a pickup or an SUV.

Though my SUV has a factory tow package rated at 5000lbs, I have not towed anything approaching that. But in case I get a large TT, I would need such things that I do not have such as sway bars and a load-equalizing hitch. In researching the Web, I found these videos that were eye-openers for novices like myself.

I suspect that fish-tailing accidents are caused more by the tail, meaning the trailer, than the dog. Specifically, the user did not load the trailer so that its center of gravity is in front of its axle.

The guys I saw fishtailing on the highway had BIG pickups. This highway is a divided highway, with two lanes in each direction. It has many long stretches of 6% slope and, when crowded with camping weekenders, becomes a kind of race track where these guys are showing off their trucks. Yeah, "my diesel truck got more torque than your puny truck". Pulling trailers, they have no problem passing my minivan, which I keep on the right lane, going up 6% slope.

My theory is this. The type of trailers most popular in this part is the "toy hauler". An enclosed trailer, it has a ramp and an empty tail end so that the user can drive up his off-road vehicle such as quads, dune buggies. It's fairly common for the weekenders to bring up 4 quads, one for each family member. So, he might have loaded the trailer tail-heavy, which caused the trailer to wag like a dog's tail. The saving grace was that their gigantic pickup could handle that tail. It's still not kosher, wouldn't you say? One time, as a guy with a wagging tail was passing me, he was tail-gated by another guy. I slowed the hell down to let them get far from me as fast as possible, as they chased each other into the sunset. Yes, the literal sunset, as the highway was westward back into the city and it was Sunday late afternoon!

In surfing the Web for RV blogs, I ran across a guy who lost his dually pickup and his fifth wheel to a roll-over. He certainly was a seasoned RV'er, and was not towing it for the first time. He blamed it on the highway being "grooved", the kind of longitudinal grooves that were cut into the road to enhance traction.

Now, I have heard of motorcyclists complaining about these grooves, but for these to cause a dually truck and its fifth wheel to roll over? If I find it again, I will post the link. Though his big pickup and 5th wheel were totaled, he and his wife were OK. They climbed out and took pictures to post for their blog.

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Class C owners, I would like to hear from your experiences. Thx. The Adventures of Tioga and George Skylarking

There is another Blog that deserves mention: The Sandcastle. She is quite fun to read when she is on the road but it does bog down between trips.

Or better yet, go to her original website - sandsys.org - and click on "Travel" then on "Camping" and read her account of getting started on their RV adventure.

[brewer12345]

NW, if I were you, I would go rent a Class C for several days or a week to see how you like the experience. Much more satisfying than twiddling spreadsheets and you will learn a lot quickly.

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 NW, if I were you, I would go rent a Class C for several days or a week to see how you like the experience. Much more satisfying than twiddling spreadsheets and you will learn a lot quickly.

I agree. You are making it much more complicated than it needs to be. Come on in, the water's fine.

[Rich_in_Tampa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd I agree. You are making it much more complicated than it needs to be. Come on in, the water's fine.

Amen.

[huskerblue]

I have a Lazy Daze - wonderfully made vehicles as solid as a rock. We are a bit of a cult in our fanaticism about these rigs. Most people who have them live in California because if you go new, you can only buy them from the factory in Montclair, CA. I think we own the only LD in the state of Nebraska. To REALLY learn about these rigs, join the LD Yahoo group:

lifewithalazydazerv : Life With A Lazy Daze RV

We have had it five years and due to a number of factors haven't used it as much as intended. I could and would and may still live in it for long periods of time (such as summer months in the Rockies while the heat bears down on the plains). I doubt I'll ever go without a stick house to come home to but would likely give it a shot if circumstances presented that opportunity.

My DW would NEVER live in a rig full time and the jury is still out on how long she could live in it at any one time. If you are married, YOU MUST HASH THIS OUT IN GREAT DETAIL WITH YOUR SPOUSE!

PS - I attended the 2006 LD 50th anniversary Hoedown mentioned in Andy's blog. I met Andy and many of the people on that Yahoo site. Nice folks who are incredibly knowledgeable. Andy isn't kidding when he says he's shy!

PSS - A BIG reason I like our 26 foot LD is that we can get into the out of the way forest service campgrounds and the like that Class A's can't. I'm not a big fan of RV resorts and only stay there once in a blue moon. I much prefer staying in pristine backcountry with hiking, fishing and like opportunities away from civilization. I get enough of that in the stick house setting.

[hankster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 NW, if I were you, I would go rent a Class C for several days or a week to see how you like the experience. Much more satisfying than twiddling spreadsheets and you will learn a lot quickly.

An excellent idea! If possible, spend a couple of weeks with it.

We owned a Class C motorhome in the 80s and really enjoyed it. It was fairly easy to get around even in heavier traffic. It's nice to be able to pull over and use the bathroom or get a snack without stepping outside. It was a pain to unhook everything at a campground to go exploring, but that issue would be solved with a "toad".

[audreyh1]

If we weren't fulltimers we'd go for something shorter than 30 ft because you can get into a lot of nice backwoods places. However, even with a 37ft Class A, we are able to spend most of our camping destination time in state and federal parks and not in RV "resorts".

We've talked to folks who go out on long trips and then return to home base, and they often have TWICE the mileage on their motorhome than we do for the same model year.

10,000 miles lets us make a big coast to coast loop most years. We stay at a spot 3 days, 5 days, a week, 2 weeks - very rarely a month. Use the toad heavily of course for day trips.

You can see our travel pattern over the last 4 years - 2006-2008 are the most common travel patterns for us - click on the year under "By Years" below the map to see our trek for that year, and click on the push-pins to get the date a location for each overnight: Audrey & John's Travel Maps

Audrey

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 You can see our travel pattern over the last 4 years

Oh!!! I do like that. What program do you use to create these maps? I do need that -- for o' so many reasons.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd Oh!!! I do like that. What program do you use to create these maps? I do need that -- for o' so many reasons.

Well - DH learned how to program those maps himself a few years ago based on Google maps. I'll get the link from him where he's posted the code on some user forum.

Audrey

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Well - DH learned how to program those maps himself a few years ago based on Google maps. I'll get the link from him where he's posted the code on some user forum.

Thank you... in advance.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd Thank you... in advance.

First of all - if you create an account on the Google Maps page, you can customize and save your own maps and routes and make them available for public viewing if you want. I thought it was worth mentioning that first as no actual coding is involved.

Here is the info from my husband about what he does:

Here is the Google Map code documentation.
Google Maps API Concepts - Google Maps API - Google Code

Here is a simple example that I posted on the map forum. It uses routing code which is limited to 25 points. Our maps draw a polygon which has not point limit. I don't have an example of the "Where" code posted. The "Where" code on our Map Years and our Where pages are in a semi-compiled state on our web site. The real source code is kept on my computer.
Google Maps API - Route from Waypoints Example (route_waypoints.html)

Hope that helps!

Audrey

[Moemg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 I. You can see our travel pattern over the last 4 years - 2006-2008 are the most common travel patterns for us - click on the year under "By Years" below the map to see our trek for that year, and click on the push-pins to get the date a location for each overnight: Audrey & John's Travel Maps Audrey

I'm curious as to why you haven't ventured into a lot of the east coast especially New England ?

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moemg I'm curious as to why you haven't ventured into a lot of the east coast especially New England ?

Well, we tend to be drawn to the western US and only visit GA because we have family there.

But one of these years we'll spend going up New England and into the Maritime Provinces of CA - all the way to Newfoundland if we can.

Audrey

[cantlogin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Well, we tend to be drawn to the western US and only visit GA because we have family there. But one of these years we'll spend going up New England and into the Maritime Provinces of CA - all the way to Newfoundland if we can. Audrey

If I ever make it to Newfoundland I'm gonna go the extra ten miles and visit France.

Saint-Pierre and Miquelon

[NW-Bound]

In my earlier post today, I mentioned that we wanted to go look at a class C. Well, the owner was not home. So, perhaps during next week.

RV sales appear to be slow here. There are some sales all right, but on eBay so many auctions ended up below seller's reserves. The ones that got sold have been usually below blue book values. The only ones that got sold FAST and ABOVE blue book are Rialtas. I observed this phenomenon on eBay, RVTrader, and Oodle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by huskerblue My DW would NEVER live in a rig full time and the jury is still out on how long she could live in it at any one time. If you are married, YOU MUST HASH THIS OUT IN GREAT DETAIL WITH YOUR SPOUSE!

Yes, I know that I need to get my wife to "buy into" this. I always have her with me when out looking at RVs. I also have been telling her about gray/black tanks, the need to conserve resources when boondocking, etc... One thing we share is the love of travel, and if I am doing all the driving and wrestling with the drain hose, she will come along. I need my sweetheart with me. And she would be afraid I might pick up a companion along the trek.

Same as yours, my wife would not want to be an RV full-timer. That's OK, because I do not either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 NW, if I were you, I would go rent a Class C for several days or a week to see how you like the experience.

Please see my answer below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankster An excellent idea! If possible, spend a couple of weeks with it. We owned a Class C motorhome in the 80s and really enjoyed it. It was fairly easy to get around even in heavier traffic. It's nice to be able to pull over and use the bathroom or get a snack without stepping outside. It was a pain to unhook everything at a campground to go exploring, but that issue would be solved with a "toad".

Yes. I am thinking the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by huskerblue A BIG reason I like our 26 foot LD is that we can get into the out of the way forest service campgrounds and the like that Class A's can't. I'm not a big fan of RV resorts and only stay there once in a blue moon. I much prefer staying in pristine backcountry with hiking, fishing and like opportunities away from civilization. I get enough of that in the stick house setting.

We went out to look at small TTs and agreed that we like something bigger for long treks. Larger TTs may stress my SUV. I definitely would not buy a big truck just for a tow vehicle. That leaves the class C as most appealing, and the price of used ones is so reasonable I wonder what I am missing.

Class Bs have the allure of simplicity, i.e. no toad. However, there are cons. They command higher prices. There are fewer used ones to choose from. They are geared towards 2 persons, and my children might want to join us sometimes.

About renting to try out, I have read that one needs a longer time than a weekend to see if it would work. Now, we have gone to CruiseAmerica to look at their class Cs. The rental fee is not cheap! For a month's rental, I figure I can buy a used one, and if it does not work out, sell it and suffer a smaller loss than the rental fee for a month. Of course that is from a novice's viewpoint because selling one may not be all that easy.

We have spent a bit of time inside several class Cs and "know" that we will like it. I am really torn between a longer one of 28ft or shorter ones of 23-25 ft. I am quite familiar with the general floorplans now. The difference is the longer ones have room for a sofa, while the shorter ones have to settle for an easy chair. There are some slight variations between makers, but not a whole lot; one cannot make room out of nothing. For me, a sofa is important. I like to read, and read while laying down. Will I be happy giving that up? Why not just get the long class C? The debate is on inside my head because the shorter one can be kept at my city home, while the long one must be kept up in my boonies home. My cheapskate nature does not like to pay for RV storage.

So, by researching, studying, reading blogs, visiting dealerships, I slowly learn what would work for us. Mistakes might still be made, but at least I am making attempts to avoid them.

Our travel style is such that we must have a toad. Here's an example. The last time we were in Seattle, which was the 6th or 7th vacation we had been there, we drove to Snoqualmie Falls and took a hike to the bottom of the fall. We spent time to walk along Green Lake and did a bit of people watching. We went to Discovery Park for a walk, and happened to observe a Pow Wow at the Indian Center inside the park. As described earlier, we have plenty of "nature" at our boonies home and do not avoid humanity when we travel. We will need a toad to get around.

Future travel will be different in that we will return to our "home on wheel" at the end of the day, instead of a hotel room. And I certainly hope travel by RV will be cheaper, which allows us to go for longer trips than in the past.

Many pleasures in life are free. However, it costs money to get to and to stay there. An RV should help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 No way would I ever use a dolly! It's an extra piece that you gotta store while camping. I'd say hassle factor would be really high.

This is the argument I read time and time again against a dolly. I wonder why. Is a tow dolly that burdensome? Or is it because it can be stolen? I thought it is neat to be able to tow any front-wheel-drive car with the same dolly. Flat-towing should be simple, I thought, but then Andy had a bit of trouble with his setup. Have you looked at his blog?

Hankster, thanks for the link on RV towing. I did not realize the towing brake can fail and cause much grief. Also, it appears that the use/non-use of braking system on the toad has been a source of contention among RV'ers. Gee! I hate to think what would happen if they start to talk politics. Oops. We used to talk politics here too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantlogin If I ever make it to Newfoundland I'm gonna go the extra ten miles and visit France. Saint-Pierre and Miquelon

That's neat. Here's another oddity. Look on the map for Point Roberts, Washington State, 98281.

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 10,000 miles lets us make a big coast to coast loop most years. We stay at a spot 3 days, 5 days, a week, 2 weeks - very rarely a month. Use the toad heavily of course for day trips. You can see our travel pattern over the last 4 years -

This is what 40,000 miles looked to us... well the "lodging" cost anyway. We stayed at friends and relatives for a number of nights (e.g., two weeks in Annapolis MD and 1½ weeks in Pittsburg PA). There were a few multi-night stays in here that are not obvious (none over three nights). The most we paid was in Key West FL and Jackson WY.

Date	Payee	Memo	Amount
8/5/2008	KOA	Salina KS	$ 29.70
8/6/2008	KOA	Granite City IL	35.00
8/7/2008	Wolfies Kamping	Zanesville OH	24.44
8/17/2008	Red Barn Rendezvous	Edwardsville IL	27.00
8/19/2008	Double J Campground	Chatham IL	29.00
8/20/2008	Kentuckiana Kampground	Mackinaw IL	25.00
8/21/2008	Fish Lake Beach	Volo IL	34.00
8/22/2008	Sky High Camping Resort	Portage WI	41.78
8/23/2008	KOA	Gretna NE	32.82
9/12/2008	KOA	Rock Springs WY	30.88
9/13/2008	Virginian RV Resort	Jackson WY	62.01
9/14/2008	KOA	Cody WY	32.34
9/16/2008	Fort Caspar Campground	Casper WY	16.74
10/6/2008	Panhandle Campground	Guymon OK	10.00
10/7/2008	Gunsmoke Trav L Park	Dodge City KS	29.00
10/8/2008	USI RV Park	Wichita KS	30.60
10/9/2008	Fossil Creek RV Park	Russell KS	22.00
10/11/2008	Wacky West RV Campground	Valentine NE	13.44
10/28/2008	Happy Camper RV Park	Pagosa Springs, CO	14.45
10/29/2008	USA RV Park	Gallup, NM	28.03
10/30/2008	El Rancho Lobo RV Park	Deming, NM	11.25
10/31/2008	Road Runner RV Park	El Paso, TX	28.80
11/1/2008	Midland RV Campground	Midland TX	42.50
11/3/2008	KOA	Carlsbad, NM	39.77
11/4/2008	Enchanted Trails	Albuquerque, NM	14.84
11/5/2008	Trailer Ranch RV Resort	Santa Fe, NM	35.17
12/1/2008	KOA	Salina KS	24.93
12/2/2008	Mingo RV Park	Tulsa OK	28.00
12/3/2008	Mingo RV Park	Tulsa OK	28.00
12/4/2008	KOA	Choctaw OK	31.87
12/5/2008	KOA	Choctoaw OK	31.87
12/6/2008	Wichita Falls RV Park	Wichita Falls TX	45.00
12/7/2008	KOA	Lubbock TX	21.55
12/8/2008	KOA	Lubbock TX	21.56
1/31/2009	Ole Towne Cotton Gin RV Park	Quanah TX	23.40
2/1/2009	KOA	Montgomery TX (Houston North)	34.20
2/2/2009	KOA	Houston TX	72.00
2/3/2009	KOA	Houston TX	36.00
2/5/2009	Gulf Coast RV Resort	Beaumont TX	17.50
2/6/2009	KOA	Lafayette LA	39.73
2/7/2009	Maxie's Campground	Broussard LA (Lafayette)	24.64
2/9/2009	KOC Kampground	New Iberia LA	25.03
2/10/2009	Capri Court RV Park	Houma LA	27.05
2/11/2009	KOA	New Orleans LA	31.27
2/12/2009	KOA	New Orleans LA	31.27
2/13/2009	KOA	New Orleans LA	62.54
2/14/2009	KOA	New Orleans LA	31.27
2/17/2009	KOA	Lafayette LA	37.58
2/17/2009	Wispering Pines RV Resort	Tyler TX	15.00
2/18/2009	Ole Towne Cotton Gin RV Park	Quanah TX	23.40
3/14/2009	Palo Duro RV Park	Canyon TX	20.00
3/15/2009	KOA	Abilene TX	27.30
3/16/2009	Lonesome Dove RV Ranch	Del Rio TX	15.00
3/17/2009	Warwick Rentals (Towne North RV)	Laredo TX	25.00
3/18/2009	Breeze Lake Campground	Brownsville TX	27.00
3/19/2009	Watersedge RV Park	Rockport TX	26.10
3/20/2009	Lazy Longhorn RV Park	Victoria TX	25.00
3/21/2009	KOA	San Antonio TX	105.30
3/21/2009	KOA	San Antonio TX	35.10
3/25/2009	Hwy 71 RV Park	Austin TX	18.00
3/26/2009	Belton RV Park	Belton TX	25.20
3/27/2009	KOA	Abilene TX	31.79
3/28/2009	Lamar Sportsman's Campground	Lamar CO	22.50
4/19/2009	KOA	Salina KS	24.93
4/20/2009	Basswood Country Resort	Platte City MO	35.90
4/23/2009	Park Ridge Campground	Van Buren AR	20.00
4/24/2009	Tall Pines RV Park	Shreveport LA	32.57
4/25/2009	Battlefield Campground	Vicksburg MS	19.26
4/26/2009	Okatibbee Lake Waterpark	Meridian MS	8.56
4/27/2009	KOA	Tallahassee FL	32.40
4/28/2009	Ocean Grove Camp Resort	St Augustine FL	39.24
4/29/2009	KOA	Lion Country Safari - Loxahatchee FL	42.65
5/1/2009	Boyd's Key West Campgrounds	Key West FL	75.00
5/1/2009	Boyd's Key West Campgrounds	Key West FL	81.10
5/3/2009	Indian Creek RV Resort	Fort Myers Beach FL	26.00
5/4/2009	A Campers World Campground	Lamont FL	28.00
5/5/2009	River View RV Park	Vidalia LA	20.05
5/6/2009	Tall Pines RV Park	Shreveport LA	32.57
5/7/2009	Pavilion RV Park	West Monroe LA	19.02
5/8/2009	Glen Oaks RV Park	Waynesville MO	21.10
5/9/2009	KOA	Goodland KS	26.82
6/8/2009	Indian Campground	Buffalo WY	32.67
6/25/2009	Indian Campground	Buffalo WY	69.34
7/12/2009	Indian Campground	Buffalo WY	34.67
9/14/2009	KOA	DuBois WY	27.68
9/15/2009	KOA	Rock Springs WY	31.85
9/16/2009	KOA	Grand Junction CO	26.43
9/17/2009	KOA	Grand Junction CO	26.43
9/18/2009	Country Village RV Resort	Montrose CO	16.53
9/19/2009	KOA	Pueblo CO	34.60
			$ 2,793.88