Another Exciting Episode in Audrey's Great RV Adventure

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd Another (big) difference between "Travelers" and "Campers." The fuel required to haul that much weight around is waaaay outside my budget. I try to keep the storage tanks as empty as I can and use the water available at my destination. (Obviously, the Black Water tank is an exception as it requires a couple gallons as SOP.)

You may be surprised: the weight of your rig from added items including water has a fairly small effect on mileage. You hear all the time how even towing a 2000 lb toad with a 500 lb tongue weight only causes a 1 mpg drop in mileage. Weight is a factor but often not a big one.

We will try to minimize fresh water etc before long trips when it's convenient, but don't really fuss too much about it. Indeed, one trip the water source at the campsite was not functioning, and we were glad to have that fresh water on hand to use until we were able to switch sites two days later.

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I would not rule out a smaller class B for ourselves if I run across a good used one.

Since I don't know your requirements -- how about this:

Quote:

I have a Roadtrek 2007 with a little over 28,000 miles for sale. We bought it new, non-smokers and no pets in vehicle. White with silver trim,generator,awning,continental spare, two house batteries, armoire behind drivers seat. Added new 19" LCD HDTV( no convertor needed),XM radio and back up sensors. Located in Mississippi. Asking $54,000, sticker was $74,000 For photos and info contact Harry at hestaley@.... Phone 601-442-4218.

I copied this for you because it is on the Yahoo Roadtrek forum and you would need to register. Someone asked what model it is but he hasn't answered back yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I do not see us boondock for more than 2 or 3 days. And one can just do a sponge bath over such short periods, right?

Thanks to NASA there is an even more eloquent solution:

No Rinse® Products

I carry each of the products in the RV but other than to "test drive" the shampoo it is unopened. The shampoo was impressive -- not as good as the normal method with water but very acceptable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Ron, what kind of gas mileage do you get with your Roadtrek?

I get a little over 16 MPH on the highway and around 13 in town. Remember, I do have the biggest, heaviest model with a 6 liter gas engine. Roadtrek does have a diesel model that people claim to get over 20 MPH.

I should point out that gas milage is not a very important factor to consider. A 10 MPH difference at $2.50 a gallon on a 1,000 mile trip is $67 -- about the cost of a restaurant meal for two (with drinks) or about half the cost of a hotel room for one night.

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa You may be surprised: the weight of your rig from added items including water has a fairly small effect on mileage.

Yeah, reading back over what I wrote in the response to you and in responding to NW-Bound, I recognise that I went off the deep end. Thinking back on it, when we first got the vehicle we drove with the tanks full and even carried six gallons in jugs -- the mileage didn't suffer at all.

Never mind.

[audreyh1]

Since our rig weight is almost 30,000 full tanks don't have that much effect on our mileage.

And our long term average is 8.1 mpg and that is pulling a 4000 pound towed. Actually, I think we get around 8.5 mpg these days. Fuel mileage on these diesel engines improve over time and we rarely see below 8.5 these days.

The wind factors have the most effect on our mileage - a side wind or head wind really causes a drop.

Assuming the 8.1mpg number and a $2.75 diesel fuel price, it costs us $340 to travel a thousand miles. Our annual average mileage is around 10,000 - so $3,400 per year for motorhome fuel.

Audrey

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa You may be surprised: the weight of your rig from added items including water has a fairly small effect on mileage. You hear all the time how even towing a 2000 lb toad with a 500 lb tongue weight only causes a 1 mpg drop in mileage. Weight is a factor but often not a big one.

Yes. Though I have not owned an RV, when I studied the gas mileage of different types (class A, B, C and TT), I was at first surprised at their gas mileage difference being less than one would guess from their weight. Then, a bit of thinking gets one realize that most of the fuel goes into fighting wind drag, and these RVs all have higher profiles than sedans, and terrible drag coefficients with their protuberances. Knowing that aero drag increases as the square of speed, it is not at all surprising that gas mileage is shot at higher speed. After all, aero drag is 40% higher at 65mph compared to 55mph. Get up to 75mph and it is 86% higher than 55mph.

Weight may not be a great factor until you pull it uphill. But I would think it affects handling too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd Since I don't know your requirements -- how about this: I copied this for you because it is on the Yahoo Roadtrek forum and you would need to register. Someone asked what model it is but he hasn't answered back yet. I get a little over 16 MPH on the highway and around 13 in town. Remember, I do have the biggest, heaviest model with a 6 liter gas engine. Roadtrek does have a diesel model that people claim to get over 20 MPH. I should point out that gas milage is not a very important factor to consider. A 10 MPH difference at $2.50 a gallon on a 1,000 mile trip is $67 -- about the cost of a restaurant meal for two (with drinks) or about half the cost of a hotel room for one night.

Thanks for the info on the used RoadTrek. I can get a used class C, a bit older and with about twice the mileage for half that price or less. What I wonder is if these class Bs are still too cumbersome to drive into town. One still has problems getting into parking garages downtown.

Perhaps a class C pulling a small dinghy would still work the best for us. Money wise also. Do I convince myself, and my wife most of all, to go for a used but newer class B+ based on the Mercedes diesel frame? Yes, they are pricey.

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Though I have not owned an RV...Weight may not be a great factor until you pull it uphill. But I would think it affects handling too.

For every uphill, there's a down hill, right?

Re: handling, it's less the added weight that affects this, and more the balance and weight distribution. I have never noticed a handling effect when adding weight, but I have from moving heavy items from one side to the other, or front and back.

My suggestion is that you get out there and get some test-ride experience with all types you are considering, including some low end class A's like the entry level Damon or Georgetown. Some of your speculations may prove themselves right and some wrong.

Not too many people hit it just right with their first purchase, so at some point you'll just have to dive in. We went from a B to a collapsible trailer (hard wall) to an A. We sort of figured it would happen that way and didn't hesitate to trade up. Fortunately for us, the timing and recession mitigated the upgrade costs somewhat.

Do it.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa For every uphill, there's a down hill, right?

But, but, but the energy is not completely recovered downhill if you are too busy braking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa Do it.

I will! It's a matter of time.

I got my sweetheart excited about this. I could tell she was disappointed when we lowballed a class C at a dealership and were rejected. I still have plenty of time to shop. As explained earlier, my wife is still tied down with a family matter, and I "need" to w*rk for the next few months, perhaps into spring.

I told my wife I will continue to shop around for fun, and would steal buy one if the price is right. All I could do now would be to drive it up to my boonies place, and let it get snowed and rained on, unless it can fit on my driveway. However, I wouldn't want it sitting out in front of the house for long. Will I love it enough to use as a front yard ornament?

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound What I wonder is if these class Bs are still too cumbersome to drive into town. One still has problems getting into parking garages downtown.

Yeah, our Roadtrek requires 8'6" clearance (I use 9') and that does sometimes present a problem. However, it is fairly rare -- airports mostly. Other than that, I can take this vehicle anywhere a car can go. Granted, because it is 23' long, I have squished it into places I shouldn't have -- but have gotten no tickets and had no scratches or scrapes.

Driving it is no different from driving any other van -- it's just a large car.

It, btw, is pretty aerodynamic and wind does not effect the milage much -- starting out from a standstill seems to be the greatest fuel "waster." (That is true of all vehicles -- think rockets.)

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound But, but, but the energy is not completely recovered downhill if you are too busy braking.

I would like to expound on this a bit. My minivan has a real-time display of mpg as well as an average, until the latter is reset. Its average fuel consumption is 20mpg in town, and 25mpg on the highway.

When going up a 6% slope, it gets down to 6mpg. Interestingly, it shows no difference between speeds of 45 mph or 60 mph on the upslope as it would on level ground. On the down slope, coasting down, it shows the maximum 99 mpg which of course should be "infinite" as my foot is off the accelerator.

So, unless I pick up speed to coast as far as I can, the car only averages to 12mpg assuming symmetric hills. However, aero drag keeps me from getting that speed up high, and of course safety requires me to brake. I probably get more than 12mpg for the average, but certainly less than the 25mpg on the level ground.

By the way, I think every vehicle should have a real-time display of fuel consumption. We would drive slower by instinct. I am a mellow "geezer" and would drive slow anyway.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa You hear all the time how even towing a 2000 lb toad with a 500 lb tongue weight only causes a 1 mpg drop in mileage.

I guess it makes sense if one considers that the toad is in the draft of the big RV. That is not true in the case of a truck or SUV pulling a TT, hence the terrible fuel mileage of the SUV+TT combination compared to that of the SUV alone.

For short trips, it is true that fuel mileage does not matter much. Then I might as well buy a lower-cost class C to enjoy the space. However, I have big plans of driving many tens of thousand of miles, zigzagging across the US and Canada. I have read of people under-estimating the fuel cost, then just park their RVs because they couldn't afford or rather bear to fill them up.

I just want to prepare myself, since I am a cheapskate who already cringes at the gas mileage difference between my minivan and my SUV.

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound By the way, I think every vehicle should have a real-time display of fuel consumption. We would drive slower by instinct. I am a mellow "geezer" and would drive slow anyway.

I agree with this. It is also another reason to keep up-to-date (within ten years anyway) with automobiles. We have a Chrysler T&C with the basic unit in the head liner. The Roadtrek (A Chevrolet Express Van, actually) has a Driver Information Center (DIC) in the Dash beside the Speedometer.

The DIC has several trip/fuel monitors and several trip odometers. It keeps track of Fuel range, Fuel economy, Timers, Tachometer, Oil Life, Tire pressure, Engine hours, and, of course, it has a Compass. It also has a loud warning alarm -- one of my tire sensors malfunctioned. And a host of other things I have forgotten about.

I would say that the tire pressure monitor is worth it's weight in gold, what with the price of large vehicle tires. And with the Oil Life monitor the days of "every 3,000 miles" are gone.

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I just want to prepare myself, since I am a cheapskate who already cringes at the gas mileage difference between my minivan and my SUV.

Yeah, we bought the Roadtrek and gas prices shot up to $4.00 a gallon. On our first trip, we were out about 450 miles and we stopped to fill up for the first time. My heart stopped along with the pump at $100... and then to add insult to injury, I was told I needed to run the card again to finish the fill-up -- another $12.

After that trip, I was no longer that concerned about fuel economy. Isn't it terrible that I can be happy about $2.50-2.75 a gallon gas?

[audreyh1]

We had a Forerunner that got over 20 mpg - don't remember exactly. Pulling a 2500lb (or thereabouts) Casita the mileage dropped down to 14-16 mpg which I don't consider terrible at all.

Audrey

[hankster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonBoyd Well, still not exactly. We have a Roadtrek, which is comparable in size to a TT (without the setup/teardown issues). (Closet, however, is an appropriate word.) Roadtrek Motorhome, RV Camper Van, Class B Motor Homes# (Click on Models and then on 210 Versatile) If we would "boondock" and use the storage tank, the "Navy" shower technique is required unless we'd wish to go get more water -- which I am sure is the same in a small trailer. At an RV park, however, hooking up to the city water would allow us to take as long a shower as the water heater can handle.

Those Roadtreks are nice machines. DW and I are considering putting together a poor man's version of a Class B by purchasing a used 3/4 or 1 ton extended van and possibly adding a high top with roof a/c. At this stage of our lives, we are travelers rather than campers. All we really need are a good bed and a porta-potti to spare us from midnight bathroom trips at the campground.

We love the Sprinter chassis, but our budget will be more in line with a early to mid 2000s Chevy Express van or similar.

[NW-Bound]

A drop in gas mileage from 20mpg to 14mpg would not be bad. I could live with that. Were you driving slow?

The first TT I seriously consider was the new R-Pod by Forest River. See picture. The R-Pods are actually a series of TTs with similar shapes, but of slightly different lengths and floorplans. They are light enough to be towed by small SUVs.



This new TT Series has a fan club. I went to their forum and read about their experience. Reports of gas mileage ranged from 8 to 10 mpg. So, what went wrong?

It could be that many people drive too fast. My neighbor who has a popup camper admitted to towing it at 80mph and blew up both of its tires on a trip.

On the Web, I read about an RV'er bragging about having enough power in his truck+fifth wheel to be able to pass anybody he wants to on the freeway.

Good grief! I have read a few articles proposing theories on how the USA is a country of impatient if not ADD people. But I digressed...

[RonBoyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankster All we really need are a good bed and a porta-potti to spare us from midnight bathroom trips at the campground. We love the Sprinter chassis, but our budget will be more in line with a early to mid 2000s Chevy Express van or similar.

That describes us also. All we were looking for was an alternative to a hotel (for many reasons) and a restaurant (also for many reasons).

We considered the Sprinter, of course, but ruled it out primarily because it was so tall and narrow. I was a little leery of all that weight/heighth on a 3/4 ton chassis (It is quite narrow inside too, btw). I felt more secure with the much shorter wider version on a 1-ton frame. (Yeah, I know the Stabili-track kinda levels the playing field but just the same.)

The diesel engine in the Sprinter is attractive though.

It is my understaanding that in building it yourself, you will spend almost as much when you finish up.

The used (~2000) seems like an excellent choice to me.

[dm]

My gas mileage dropped from 20 to 12 pulling my 26' travel trailer with my Chevy Avalanche. My trip home after buying it was around 60 miles and it was flat interstate traveling around 60 mph.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound A drop in gas mileage from 20mpg to 14mpg would not be bad. I could live with that. Were you driving slow?

No, not really. I didn't drive super fast either. I usually drive the speed limit up till 55 mph, and then not much faster.

It might have been 13 to 14 mpg with the 4Runner, it might have been the Sequoia that got 16 mpg pulling the Casita - and it would often get 21mph highway without towing. With the Sequoia you didn't even know the Casita was back there!

Anyway - I didn't think it was bad at all considering what we were carrying with us.

Audrey

[brewer12345]

NW, if gas mileage is your priority, drive a 4 cyl and pitch a tent. RVs and trailers get crappy gas mileage and there is no breaking the laws of physics allowed.

FWIW, most fulltimers seem to stay several days to a couple weeks in one place, so gas is a much less substantial expense than you would guess.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound This new TT Series has a fan club. I went to their forum and read about their experience. Reports of gas mileage ranged from 8 to 10 mpg. So, what went wrong?

Who knows? Could be the Casita had much lower air resistance since it is shaped like a boat hull clamshell. I doubt the Casita is lighter as it appears to be much more substantial than the rPod - we walked by some at a dealer the other day.

Could be that Toyota SUVs get better gas mileage that what these other folks were towing with?

Who knows?

Audrey