Are you cheap?

[laurence]

In my circle, I've always been happy to pick up a check, I just tell people to cover me next time, or some such thing. I've found that it all works out about even in the long run, and it adds to the warmth, because we always get a good laugh when one of my friends says, "Don't even think about it, I owe you, put that wallet away!", or surprises me with a drink from the bar, etc. And if I forget my wallet, everyone believes me!

[saluki9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence In my circle, I've always been happy to pick up a check, I just tell people to cover me next time, or some such thing. I've found that it all works out about even in the long run, and it adds to the warmth, because we always get a good laugh when one of my friends says, "Don't even think about it, I owe you, put that wallet away!", or surprises me with a drink from the bar, etc. And if I forget my wallet, everyone believes me!

Maybe I'm just sexist, but I think it's a guy thing. You don't have to tell most guy friends "Hey, cover me next time" most men are ALWAYS keeping score.

It could be 6 months since I've seen a friend but he will not forget that I picked up the last round of drinks. Even if he did, it wouldn't matter to me time with friends is more valuable.

[kcowan]

Since we have been serious about weight loss, we regularly pay for part of our friends meals/drinks when dining out together. I figure it as a cost of being slim. We will each order big entrees and then take half of them home. When just the two of us dine out, we will often split one entree.

[haha]

I am with the people that think this way of behaving is cheap. I would stay home or suggest something less expensive if I couldn’t happily buy in. Or invite them to my house and fix the meal.

Otherwise, I would figure I have a problem and go see a therapist to try to get it fixed.

Ha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mwsinron Guess I missed the detail that it was a birthday dinner.

No, you missed the detail that it might be someone's birthday, or substitute job promotion, or ? - The real detail was that one of the other parties might suggest picking up the tab for one of the other parties.

[Mwsinron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat No, you missed the detail that it might be someone's birthday, or substitute job promotion, or ? - The real detail was that one of the other parties might suggest picking up the tab for one of the other parties.

Im talking about Toejam's topic because that is what you quoted me on. Im assuming thats what you are talking about. Im going on the fact that this person doesnt drink or get appetizers so why should she have to pay 25 percent of the drinkers and appetizer eaters.

[laurence]

I have seen some abuse the "just split the bill" thing. Two or three drinkers who order steaks loudly saying, "just split the bill!" when it comes, meanwhile the other 3-4 of us got salads and a water. Depending on situation I let it slide or say "My salad cost $27?" in a joking manner, and usually they shut up.

[audreyh1]

I noticed when working and going out to lunch with coworkers that it was always the folks who ordered the most who suggested the "simplicity" of splitting the bill. Who did they think they were fooling?

Audrey

[AltaRed]

I have found that in fairly large groups, splitting the bill tends to work pretty good. Seems to be less likelihood that 1-2 people will stand out as arrogant, insensitive twits and in the event they do, spreading the risk out over the other 10-15 folks is not a big deal.

In smaller groups of 4-6, I have seen it work both ways. If there is a known leech in the group, very few people would argue against an upfront suggestion of 'separate checks' and I have suggested that a number of times..and it has gone over well. Generally speaking though, I've had few experiences that required separate bills and I certainly wouldn't quibble over a few dollars.

[ladelfina]

Quote:

I would figure I have a problem and go see a therapist to try to get it fixed.

Ha, the therapy (however needed) is gonna cost more than the drinks and apps!

On men and women: I have seen that women are more 'mindful' and are generally willing to split or not depending on the group dynamics. The men tend to be more 'outliers', either "you're money's no good here" or whipping out a calculator.

I remember going out in groups during college (especially to Chinese places where everything was shared) and having nerds geniuses (all guys) confidently declare that everyone owed $8.34. Then they would sit trying to come up with the right change for everyone somehow.. to the penny. The sons of the rich b***ds were the worst.

I think someone who is worried about a margin of 'error' of less than $10-20 just shouldn't be going out, or should at least try to avoid the worst repeat offenders/scroungers if they can't get over it. In Toejam's case, I personally would just feel free to order the lobster.

The point of going out is to have good food, good drinks, and a good time. If you need to pinch pennies, then organize a BYOB or pot luck at home.

[justin]

I don't think it is cheap. I'd just try to be tactful. Maybe tell the group you don't have any cash and want to charge your portion (maybe even mumble "so I can get rewards points on my credit card"). Ask the waiter to separate your charges out, and give him the credit card. Frugal, not cheap. I'd never order anything I didn't plan on paying for, and I would feel it would be an imposition on others to expect them to pay anything of mine. If I had the most expensive meal, I'd definitely ask to pay my fair share of the meal.

I'd have no problem if my meal was only, say, $20 and the 25% share was $25 or so. The problem is with the other three ordering the salad, filet mignon, dessert and 3-4 cocktails each for an $80 meal, and you only ordering a burger and water for $20. You end up paying $65 instead of $20. To me that is a significant amount of money (many times what I would normally spend on a single meal at a restaurant).

That being said, I very frequently pick up the whole tab for friends for birthdays or special occasions, or for those 1-2 times per year for "old friends". But we never go to the $65 a plate kind of restaurants. More like $5-10/plate. $10-20 is a trivial amount if you're spending it on friends who reciprocate (meaning they don't take advantage of your generosity).

[Andre1969]

Whenever I've been in this type of situation, we'd always just chip in for what we actually ate if there was a wide variance in what people ordered. For example, if someone ordered steak and a couple of mixed drinks, while others ordered just water and a salad. However, if the meals came out pretty close to the same price, we'd just divide it up.

Then there have been times when I'd go out with other groups of friends, and we'd just take turns picking up the tab. It would usually end up working out in the long run.

[bbuzzard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saluki9 With the women the calculators come out, and with the men it winds up looking like an Italian wedding with all the money flying around and each guy trying to pick up the whole check. I know for sure that If I go out with my 3 close friends for steaks and cigars that I'm going to have to fight them in hand to hand combat in order to even get near the check because we are all going to want to grab it.

I went to lunch every friday for 12 years (well 90% of them anyway) with a group of 4-7 engineers. Everyone would take the bill and figure what they owed and place it in a pile on the table. In 12 years, there was not a single (literally) time when the total was not 115% to 120% of the tab. That is the way it should be done. Why is this cheap?

[Martha]

I end up going out to lunch a lot with men who are clients or coworkers.* *No other women.

I find it very hard to get them to let me pay for lunch.

Most of the time they pay for me.

Maybe it's different if you are less than 50.

[eridanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 I noticed when working and going out to lunch with coworkers that it was always the folks who ordered the most who suggested the "simplicity" of splitting the bill. Who did they think they were fooling? Audrey

I've noticed this too. With friends, it's nothing a top shelf margarita can't balance.

[BunsGettingFirm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgeeeee I think the only difference between frugal and cheap is this. If the decision not to spend aligns with your own personal values -- it's frugal. If the decision does not align with your own personal values -- it's cheap. I'm frugal. My DW is cheap.

No, I disagree. I think there is a clear distinction between being frugal and being cheap. I had an ex-friend who flew to my place for his vacation (uninvited). I picked him up at the airport (I paid the $5 for parking). Then he had me drive him to Atlantic City so he can pretend to be a big shot (playing $10 poker). I don't gamble, so the drive was purely for him. He didn't pay gas or toll. He paid the $2 for parking and had the gall the ask for the money. I told him I was out of cash and didn't want to spend $2 at the ATM just to pay him back $2. I would give him the $2 once I can find a machine from my bank. He dogged me for the $2 for the rest of the afternoon. Finally, I said, enough and ate the $2 ATM charge and paid him back the $2.

Oh, yeah, he stayed at my place for 4 days. Ate my food. Didn't do the dishes. He bought me a 1/2 of 6-pack of beer as a "gift". He asked a mutual friend why I never called him back. Yeah, this guy is cheap, and he has no social graces.

In his mind, he probably thought that the fact he had spent $300 on an plane ticket meant that he need not spend any more money for the rest of the trip. The vacation was for himself. I didn't ask him to come out.

[73ss454]

A few years back I went to dinner with another couple that I've known most of my life. He is as cheap as they come and can't stand to spend a dime. His DW know's this very well and was amazed that he would even agree to go to dinner. We often joked about how tight he was.

When the check came he took out his wallet and was searching through it and finally came out with a crisp $100 bill.
When he handed it to me I opened it and made like I was reading something that was written on it. I said "What's this?Happy Graduation, Mom and Dad. I guess you had to be there but we all had a good laugh.

[Toejam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat Toejam, I think you need to look at life a bit different here. I would not blame you too bad on this if you were having trouble paying the light bill. But in this post you told us that your portfoilo was over $3.2 Million! http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...?topic=7766.45 What do you think your friends are saying or will be saying behind your back? Really, life is too short to worry about a dinner tab. Ever seen Charles Dickens 'A Christmas Carol'?

CutThroat: One's net worth has nothing to do with this. (But FYI, none of these dinner friends is poor - all are quite well to do. ) And please don't label me a Scrooge. You don't know me. If you go back and read my posts (and please do not focus on my finances), I think you can intuitively get a feel for the kind of person I am. You will not find any friends, family, neighbors, or even tenants who would consider me selfish or greedy. I live a simple and frugal life, but I also give generously: Christmas, birthday, wedding, baby shower, graduation, retirement gifts. Treating friends and close (former) coworkers out for lunch/dinner on their birthdays or special occasions in their life. Monetary donations to charities, finacial contributions for elder care/recreational activities, and thousands of volunteer hours helping out at the nursing home where my father spent the last 4 years of his life. Willing to help out friends and family in any way I can.

Going back to my original post, I have no problem dividing the restaurant bill equally when I dine out with these friends at casual restaurants during other times of the year. And I don't mind paying extra for what other people eat/drink, as long as there is not a huge discrepancy. However, I am starting to draw the line at these very fancy upscale dining establishments where the tab starts adding up very quickly in big numbers. When I order a $50 dinner (tax and tips included), but I end up paying $80 or $90 because of all the wine/beer/appetizers/sides/desserts that my friends order . . .well, it starts to get under your skin after awhile, and you start to feel like you are being taken advantage of. I got to thinking to myself: If I was one of these friends, I would certainly feel a little guilty and maybe even a little ashamed of this. My natural inclination would be to acknowledge the discrepancy and then pay my share or at least cut a little slack to the person. This would just seem like common courtesy and a decent thing to do. It's the principle underlying the situation, not just the $ part.

Considering I have been putting up with this for the last 20+ years, I don't think my friends would take offense if I politely requested a separate check at the beginning of the dinner. Thank you, Justin, for your suggestion about using my credit card to get mileage credits as sort of an "excuse" for separating the bill. I have complete confidence that my friends and I can continue to enjoy these dinners with this slight change in bill splitting.

[Toejam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa Otherwise, I would figure I have a problem and go see a therapist to try to get it fixed. Ha

Ha: I don't think I need a shrink . . . yet. But I will keep it in mind if and when the time comes that I feel I really need one!

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal No, I disagree. I think there is a clear distinction between being frugal and being cheap. I had an ex-friend who flew to my place for his vacation (uninvited). I picked him up at the airport (I paid the $5 for parking). Then he had me drive him to Atlantic City so he can pretend to be a big shot (playing $10 poker). I don't gamble, so the drive was purely for him. He didn't pay gas or toll. He paid the $2 for parking and had the gall the ask for the money. I told him I was out of cash and didn't want to spend $2 at the ATM just to pay him back $2. I would give him the $2 once I can find a machine from my bank. He dogged me for the $2 for the rest of the afternoon. Finally, I said, enough and ate the $2 ATM charge and paid him back the $2. Oh, yeah, he stayed at my place for 4 days. Ate my food. Didn't do the dishes. He bought me a 1/2 of 6-pack of beer as a "gift". He asked a mutual friend why I never called him back. Yeah, this guy is cheap, and he has no social graces. In his mind, he probably thought that the fact he had spent $300 on an plane ticket meant that he need not spend any more money for the rest of the trip. The vacation was for himself. I didn't ask him to come out.

While I would consider this cheap myself, it does not contradict my definitions.* Nor has anything else that has been said on this thread.* You see, you and I both agree that such behavior does not align with our individual values.* *