Baby Boomers

[renferme]

Interesting articles in the Pgh Post-Gazette the past few days about baby boomers.
Since many of us were born between 1946 and 1964, I'll post them.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06025/643601.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06025/643600.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06024/643103.stm

[ronin]

and this from the LA Times Magazine:

http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-males04jan22[...]

EDIT by mod: Shortened URL. -BMJ

[haha]

Dave, I predict this post will win you many friends among the boomers on this board. Did you just take a*Dale Carnegie Course or something?

Ha

[JPatrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davew894 Like everything else, calling a boomer a boomer is an extreme generalization, Ha.* Of course, some pre-boomers dumped the trough all over themselves and some of the later generations do so as well.* The boomers just stand out because they were right in the middle of the excessive consumption era.* Again, it's not their fault.* Just being in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time, depending on your perspective.

That was some pretty fast back sliding Dave, are you in politics?

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davew894 I have been bothered by the condition the boomers have left this country in for as long as I've known what a 'boomer' is. It's a part of the reason why I want to FIRE. I'm not paying for these people to continue to rape, loot and pillage everything they see... be it moral, ethical or financial.

davew, there have been all sorts of reasons given on this forum for wanting to FIRE, but your reason is certainly one of the most....interesting.

[califdreamer]

Generalizations are tough. IMO, generations throughout time have acted well and poorly. "The Greatest Generation" brought us through WWII but they weren't ready for the Civil Rights Act. The Boomers have been self absorbed but created a more open and tolerant society (not to say it's as open or tolerant as it could or should be... spoken like a true Boomer, huh?)

And even those observations ignore the members of the WWII generation who were pushing for more progress on race, gender, etc. Or the Boomers who aren't so open and tolerant.

Generalizations are a b**ch.

[mb]

Quote:

Consumption will need to revert back to the 'mean' in order to have a sustainable planet on which to live.* Hopefully charitable activity and morals/ethics will revert back to the mean as well.

Dave, I would be curious as to how you would propose to do this?

MB

[HFWR]

Gosh, I feel so dirty... :P

I drive a 6yo pickup, live in a 21yo, 1650sf home, been paying taxes for 35yrs, I'm paying for my son's college, I give to charity, my morals are no one's business, my ethics are pretty good, I think...

Any more rash generalizations?

[grumpy]

dave,

Have you forgotten that it was the boomer generation that sparked the environmental movement? Greenpeace did not just spring up without any predecessors. Your generalizations show you to be ignorant of or ignoring some significant facts. Your statements seemed to have sparked a lively discussion but I think you are seriously off base.

Grumpy

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davew894 I expect that the next administration will change the structure of the social security system... decreasing or deferring benefits while increasing taxes some.* Boomer may be self-absorbed, but they vote, and I expect they will continue to vote for what is best for them, regardless of the consequences for the world, their kids or grandkids.

Although Dave does seem to generalize about Boomers, he makes a valid point about Boomers voting for what's best for them, which may not be what's best for future generations. *For example, I don't believe it's unreasonable to extend the age for receiving Social Security proportionate to the increase in average lifespan. *Some Boomers might decry doing so as breaking the "promise" made to them many years ago, but that promise was premised on them living for a shorter period of time.

[unclemick]

Duh

What's different about the Boomer? Ever heard of the word -recency? Take a trip down history lane - say the Brit's and the French. Anybody expecting something requiring govt/taxpayer funding/action - had better stay active in politics thruout their retirement.

The young crowd may be reading Thom Friedman's The World is Flat or something like that but Bernstein likes Angus Madison.

Ever since since I was 11 - the older folks were telling me how the younger generation was spoiled rotten and the world was going to hell.

Heh heh heh heh - after Katrina - everyday above ground is just plain wonderful. I may have beat the boomer's by 3 yrs(1943) - but I still had a whale of a time in the 60's and today ain't bad either.

heh heh heh - second cup of coffee post.

[MasterBlaster]

To Paraphrase Dickens and to be fair to the Davew894: It is the Best of Times, It is the Worst of Times !

Didn't (we) Boomers have similar ideas towards our elders a few decades ago.

Remember those songs "Don't give me your hand-me-down world" and "My generation" and others.

One day Davew894 will look back and have a different view. It's all part of the maturing process.

[HFWR]

We're supposed to mature...

[setab]

HFWR,

I hope not! Isn't in my plans.

setab

[cute fuzzy bunny]

**** Mature!

(an actual movie quote)

[SteveR]

Here is a recent article from Yahoo Financial on the 30 Somethings and their specific issues with living in today's world.

"Young and Broke"
http://biz.yahoo.com/special/youngearn06_article1.html


The short version is that they have their own unique issues; just like any other generation has had to deal with.

They are deeper in debt starting out in life than any other generation so far.

They may not do better than their parents financially.

They have been "sold" on mass consumerism and have consumed, and consumed, and consumed....leaving them with huge debts.

Debt has required they delay marriage, families, home purchases etc.

Warning: More gross generalizations ahead.

My personal experience with 4 kids in this generation is that they have higher expectations for immediate gratification than my generation.

My kids and DW's kids want it now and buy it now with no real thought on what it takes to pay for it. Credit is Free! Flash the plastic and get what you want.

One family has already filed for bankruptcy and is again in up to their ears in debt. No amount of talking has made a dent with them. They have to have it now and they deserve it.

The concept of getting a job or a promotion because you are qualified by experience is foreign to them. They should get the job or promotion because they are entitled to it regardless of experience. Education is only one part of getting hired but experience ranks way up their when I hire or promote people.


I will not try to defend my generation on social, civic or environmental issues because every generation so far has been required to use what ever resources are available to turn raw materials into marketable products so they can be sold to create more products and expand the company so more jobs can be created, more taxes paid and communities expanded to support the growing company. There may be a better way to do this but the cost would move the business off shore even faster than our current political environment.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby For example, I don't believe it's unreasonable to extend the age for receiving Social Security proportionate to the increase in average lifespan.* Some Boomers might decry doing so as breaking the "promise" made to them many years ago, but that promise was premised on them living for a shorter period of time.

There are 2 problems with your thesis. One, what counts in the context you are presenting is not lifespan, but active lifespan beyond retirement age.

Theses are not the same. Lifespan beyond retirement, given that FRA is migrating from 65 to 67, has only increased a little. Even more important, a lot of what medicine has done is to decrease mortality rates without having much effect on morbidity rates. Thus the old person has what is in some ways the worst of all worlds- he is living a bit longer, but no way could he still working. Yet he does require support to live.

Anyway, an early retiree making your argument is on very thin ice. A look at an economics textbook will show you that if you aren't being economically productive you are being supported by someone one who is. Remember- you can't eat dollar bills. You could heat with them, but not for long.*

Ha

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa Anyway, an early retiree making your argument is on very thin ice. A look at an economics textbook will show you that if you aren't being economically productive you are being supported by someone one who is.

I disagree. How is being an early retiree economically unproductive? Assuming I was retired, my investments would be generating an income for me, which I would use to purchase goods and services. Likewise, by reinvesting my money, I am purchasing equity in existing and growing businesses, thereby supporting those who initially fund such businesses by providing a secondary market into which they can resell their equity interests. The main difference between being retired and working is that I won't be paying as much in taxes.

Are you saying that if you're an early retiree, that you're a parasite on society?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby Are you saying that if you're an early retiree, that you're a parasite on society?

Ted did.

Not my dog Ted.

[yakers]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davew894 Therein lies the heart of capitalism. You can be the hammer, or you can be the nail... to the extent that you have the means to become a capitalist, it's your choice.

"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail...."

Simon & Garfunkle