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Old 10-10-2008, 12:44 AM   #41
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Possible silver lining . . . if the financial crisis is bad enough, and lasts long enough, perhaps a sufficient number of baby boomers will delay retirement -- thus helping solve the social security conundrum. The toll exacted by an extra 5 - 10 years of the daily grind should ensure that few will live long enough to collect substantial SS benefits. Maybe this is what "Powers that Be" had planned all along . . . "the final solution of the Social Security question"
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:18 AM   #42
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1100 sq feet non-recycled 1950's home, including the office/ BR from which dh telecommutes.

thank you for the compliment, but I would hardly count myself amongst the enlightened, considering how much junk I have bought during my adult life. ...am though, continually on the path to reduce my carbon footprint. You know, trying to tread lighter.
I am a retired Environmental Engineer - I worked in this field for 30 years, before I sold the company and retired at age 50.

I'll give you an axiom to life by... by far the largest impact you ever made on this earth was on the day you were born. The second largest impact is when you have a child. The mere existence of humans on earth is irreversibly consuming, destroying, changing, and polluting this earth.

What a joke, "carbon footprint". Every ounce of food you eat has millions of carbon molecules. Every time you breath in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide you leave leave another carbon footprint.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing can be done to stop the progressive and irreversible destruction of the planet earth EXCEPT by reducing the population from the current 6 billion to some number well below 1 billion...100 million would be optimum.

Every second that passes brings you a little closer to death. And every second that passes brings the earth closer to massive starvation and the collapse of civilization as we know it today. It is not a question of "if", it is a question of "when". And their is not a whole lot that humans can do to change our date with destiny.

With 6 billion people on earth, it makes no difference whatsoever if you tread lightly or tread heavily. The end result will be the same. If you were ever looking for a good excuse to enjoy life to the fullest, now you have it.
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:30 AM   #43
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Happy days are here again,
The skies above are clear again,
Let us sing a song of cheer again,
Happy days are here again!
All together, shout it now,
There's no one who can doubt it now,
So let's tell the world about it now,
Happy days are here again!
Your cares and troubles are gone,
There'll be no more from now on; Happy days are here again,
The skies above are clear again,
Let us sing a song of cheer again,
Happy days are here again!
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:33 AM   #44
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Happy days are here again,....
Psst, Shirley Temple in "The Little Colonel."
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Old 10-10-2008, 05:01 AM   #45
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Put my oldest sister and her husband in the folks who had planned to retire this year at 60 but isn't. I feel somewhat sorry for them., my BIL has a horrible commute in LA, and they a respectable job of saving in their 401K. On the other hand they did treat their house like an ATM. They have owned it for 20+ years, and last I heard they owed roughly twice what the originally paid for it. Their plan was to sell the house and move to Oregon. This proceeds plus 401K and SS @62 would be a decent income. If the house was close to being paid off, I think they could execute the plan.

Instead they have a big mortgage and a dizzying collection of former cars, some nice wine, and my BIL has enjoyed many fine meals.
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:32 AM   #46
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Not this baby boomer either! I have done the just one more year thing for the last couple of years and I am putting a stop to it. Enough is Enough! Sure, I'm missing my goal nest egg since the market has been unfriendly this past year, but I'm not going to let it change my mind. I have 95 days to go.
Now I am answering my own quote! Pretty bad. I just wanted to say this market drop has now caused me to make the decision to delay retirement for 6 months. I've lost enough cushion to make me uncomfortable and I can wait a little longer and hopefully see stabilization in our economy before taking the big step. I really hate having to say that!
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:15 AM   #47
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Now I am answering my own quote! Pretty bad. I just wanted to say this market drop has now caused me to make the decision to delay retirement for 6 months. I've lost enough cushion to make me uncomfortable and I can wait a little longer and hopefully see stabilization in our economy before taking the big step. I really hate having to say that!
Oh no!! I am so sorry to hear that. Hopefully the 6 months will pass quickly.

I still am not planning to delay my November, 2009 retirement. But, I suppose that I always have that option if things get much worse.

It seems like the economy is getting into "uncharted territory".
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:36 AM   #48
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"Baby Boomers are Delaying Retirement".
Oh, really? Not this baby boomer...
Just 411 more days, 410 tomorrow.
yeeehaaaaaaaa! it really counts when it's countable.

i'm called a tail end boomer, but i prefer the term "space-age baby". i was born the year after Sputnik went up.
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:20 AM   #49
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yeeehaaaaaaaa! it really counts when it's countable.

i'm called a tail end boomer, but i prefer the term "space-age baby". i was born the year after Sputnik went up.
393 days, now! I'm a little older than you - - definitely a post-war baby having been born in 1948. I was in elementary school when you were born and I remember Sputnik, and the big math and science push in the schools afterwards. My teacher told us it was our responsibility to surpass the Russians.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:17 PM   #50
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Oh no!! I am so sorry to hear that. Hopefully the 6 months will pass quickly.

I still am not planning to delay my November, 2009 retirement. But, I suppose that I always have that option if things get much worse.

It seems like the economy is getting into "uncharted territory".

I actually told a co-worker today that I'd consider working a few more years if the market continues to plummet. Blah!!! I shudder at even allowing that to enter my mind. I'm lucky to have a 57% of my salary pension to live off of and not have to dip into the portfolio at all for years if at all.

Retirement plan in approximately 8 months still a "go"-
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:43 PM   #51
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Hobo:

thanks for your explanation. My background is also in science so I understand/ knew already what you wrote.
It's just differences in perspective. Half glass, half full.
I'll die in a few decades, give or take. In the meanwhile I watch what I eat, exercise, try to be positive. Doesn't matter in the long run, cause I'll die anyways.
Most of the people I randomly meet, I'll never meet again, or for sure in 5 - 10 years. But in the meanwhile I still try to be pleasant and neighborly. You live your life the way you see fit, and I do the same. That's all.
And like I said... the sense of entitlement displayed by BB constantly amazes me.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:59 AM   #52
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Hobo:

thanks for your explanation. My background is also in science so I understand/ knew already what you wrote.
It's just differences in perspective. Half glass, half full.
I'll die in a few decades, give or take. In the meanwhile I watch what I eat, exercise, try to be positive. Doesn't matter in the long run, cause I'll die anyways.
Most of the people I randomly meet, I'll never meet again, or for sure in 5 - 10 years. But in the meanwhile I still try to be pleasant and neighborly. You live your life the way you see fit, and I do the same. That's all.
And like I said... the sense of entitlement displayed by BB constantly amazes me.
Perhaps I came on a bit too strong. It really bothers me that many politicians and ordinary people who take information written in the media as the gospel truth.

By a "sense of entitlement" I assume you mean the BB's are insensitive to the limited resources on earth - displaying wanton consumption and could care less about how we leave the earth for our children to inherit.

That may be true if you look at things like the rate that the US consumes petroleum and non-renewable resources. On the other hand, it is not true if you consider the BB has stopped the population explosion (ie, achieved zero population growth) when over-population looked to be a real problem threatening the US in the 1950's. The BB also invested a lot of effort and money in cleaning up air and water pollution. In the 1960's most cities and factories were dumping raw sewage and industrial waste into our waterways - not so today. Also, the pollution from cars has been dramatically reduced - resulting in much cleaner air.

The BB's started the green revolution in the 1970's - finding biodegradable herbicides and pesticides, plus promoting foods grown without manufactured chemicals. Recycling has taken a huge step forward thanks to the BB's. Serious research and many pilot projects into alternative energy were the results of the results of the BB generation recognizing the energy problems facing the future.

As scientists, we must look for the heart of the problem if we hope to find a cure. The real problem is world population growth. When most BB were born, the population of the world was in between 2-3 billion people. Now the world population is above 6 billion - doubling every 12 years!

You can grouse about a "sense of entitlement" exhibited by the BB, but the problems facing our children and our grandchildren were not caused by greedy BB's. Global warming, pollution, food shortages, and consumption of our planet's non-renewable resources is a direct result of massive world population growth.

If every American recycled 100 percent of our products, drove electric cars powered by renewable energy sources, and reduced our carbon footprint to zero - all of the problems facing the world today would still be just as bad as they are today.

You and all your friends can "tread as lightly as you please", but it will not make the slightest difference. The rest of the world is running like a herd of stampeding elephants, mowing down everything in its path. And I do not see the slightest hope on the horizon that this worldwide problem can be halted before most people in the world die of starvation.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:32 AM   #53
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.....
You and all your friends can "tread as lightly as you please", but it will not make the slightest difference. The rest of the world is running like a herd of stampeding elephants, mowing down everything in its path. And I do not see the slightest hope on the horizon that this worldwide problem can be halted before most people in the world die of starvation.
I agree with this (as well as all of the preceding in your post not quoted)

To me the trick is for the US (& North America?) to focus on becoming an island of technology, military strength, food production, & a stabilized birth rate. This includes limiting immigration as necessary.

Let the rest of the world suffer the famines, poverty, land degradation, & industrial population until their populations are reduced or they embark upon birth rate stabilization programs of their own.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:47 AM   #54
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Oh no!! I am so sorry to hear that. Hopefully the 6 months will pass quickly.

I still am not planning to delay my November, 2009 retirement. But, I suppose that I always have that option if things get much worse.

It seems like the economy is getting into "uncharted territory".
If I bite the bullet I have 81 days to go! I think the problem is that my retirement model does not have market recovery built into it. Even though it still says I'm good to go, I don't like the loss of the cushion. I am probably being way too conservative. I just do not like programing future recovery into the model. Its like counting your chickens before they are hatched. My goal is to retire just before I'm 60 which happens in February. Really not sure what I'll do...wow, if that doesn't demonstrate my indecisiveness quote.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:00 PM   #55
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If I bite the bullet I have 81 days to go! I think the problem is that my retirement model does not have market recovery built into it. Even though it still says I'm good to go, I don't like the loss of the cushion. I am probably being way too conservative. I just do not like programing future recovery into the model. Its like counting your chickens before they are hatched. My goal is to retire just before I'm 60 which happens in February. Really not sure what I'll do...wow, if that doesn't demonstrate my indecisiveness quote.
I would be worried about losing my cushion, too. I don't like to count on market events and trends and recoveries that haven't happened yet. I don't think your approach is way too conservative, at all.

But then, I do tend to be pretty conservative myself.

What I have been doing is adjusting my plan to assume that the size of my ER nestegg is the new, lower size that it is today, and so a certain percentage withdrawal would be just that much lower. I am not assuming any further drop, nor any recovery. So far, so good but the future is still a big unknown.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:17 PM   #56
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I just turned 54 and backing off on my plan to voluntarily leave in 11-16 months. Due to a $31K drop in my 401K and the expected minimal growth of the remainder in "Stable Funds" over the next year, I'll need to work another year or significantly cut back in spending and save more to compensate. I've been frugal but there is room for improvement.

If I get laid off, the separation pay will more than make up for the loss.

(Now I'm trying to figure out how to legally remove my 401K, sale of 2 houses, and other savings from the US and pay minimal taxes.)
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Old 10-11-2008, 06:39 PM   #57
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Delaying retirement isn't terrible if it at least then becomes feasible. I'd like to see Social Security delayed to 68 or 69 if that will save the system. The bad thing is that retirement is become totally impossible for some people because of debt and similar financial woes.
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Old 10-11-2008, 06:49 PM   #58
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I agree with this (as well as all of the preceding in your post not quoted)

To me the trick is for the US (& North America?) to focus on becoming an island of technology, military strength, food production, & a stabilized birth rate. This includes limiting immigration as necessary.

Let the rest of the world suffer the famines, poverty, land degradation, & industrial population until their populations are reduced or they embark upon birth rate stabilization programs of their own.
Really. Africa is now and has been for a long time beyond any help. When their oil and other minerals run out, curtains. If we and the Europeans let them migrate at will, cutains for us too.

Latin America is on the cusp. They have lots of mineral resources and with good governemnt and population control could make a go of it. But these countries have never had good government for any length of time, and population control is hte last thing on their minds.

The Rio Grande is an important line for the survival of our civilization. But I imagine that with our Balkanized and corrupt politics we too will go down in flames not long after Central and South America.

Ha
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Old 10-11-2008, 07:04 PM   #59
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Really. Africa is now and has been for a long time beyond any help. When their oil and other minerals run out, curtains. If we and the Europeans let them migrate at will, cutains for us too.

Latin America is on the cusp. They have lots of mineral resources and with good governemnt and population control could make a go of it. But these countries have never had good government for any length of time, and population control is hte last thing on their minds.

The Rio Grande is an important line for the survival of our civilization. But I imagine that with our Balkanized and corrupt politics we too will go down in flames not long after Central and South America.

Ha
A provocative question: At one time, our industrial base was growing rapidly, and we were in the business of displacing or outrightly slaughtering American Indians, and settling their land. We needed people to do this, and encouraged immigration.

Fortunately, the slaughter has ended; and unfortunately, we are dismantling our industrial base, throwing millions out of work and forcing them to compete for jobs flipping burgers and stocking racks at malls.

Why do we need immigration at all? Yes, there is all the romance and lore of starry-eyed people disembarking at Ellis Island etc. etc. But the past is always romanticized--even slavery looks good in "Gone With the Wind." The last thing we need are more unskilled workers showing up competing for jobs that are already too scarce.

Maybe it's time to consign immigration, along with slavery, Wild West shootouts, and and women not being allowed to vote, to history--a history we can romanticize if we wish, but that shouldn't be allowed to dictate present-day policy.
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Old 10-11-2008, 07:26 PM   #60
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With the market turndown, my portfolio has lost 25%. Time to kick in Plan B, increase part time work. Got my new business cards, got another gig this week.

Plan C is to sell my townhome. Will see by spring if that is necessary.

Hey, Want2Retire, one of my plans (probably Plan G) is to move to a cheaper part of the country. You may very well see me in Springfield, MO if the crash continues.
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