Big mistakes in retirement

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon-nyc I'm surprised no one mentioned our own VA Collector, who retired with his entire nest egg in BofA stock before the financial crisis. There's a terribly depressing thread that took place over the course of a year or more, documenting the collapse of the stock and his determination to 'stay the course'. He ended up going back to work and quit posting here (though he's made a few cameos). Sad story and it unfolded right before our eyes. He was a real mensch about it, I wish he'd come back and post at some point.

He's still here. He posted recently about his wife wanting a new electric buggy of some sort.
You are right, he took a big hit due to his concentrated holdings in B0fA, but he just did what he had to do and moved on. I hope I'd be as big if it happened to me.

[Meadbh]

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Originally Posted by Moemg This really hits home. My Mom had my Sister drive three hours in a snow storm so she could have clean sheets when she had a cold .My Sister was nuts to do it but she always gives in to my Mom's demands . She had me drive 2 1/2 hours to take her to the beauty parlor .I am flying up to visit her next week and I am sure my days will be filled with errands including buying depends .I love my Mom but she can be exhausting .Two years ago she broke her shoulder so I went up to help her . Thank God for wine !

I once spent $2500 at the last minute, and cancelled a planned vacation, to fly across the Atlantic to accompany my mother to a meeting with her financial advisor. She made no changes to her asset allocation, which was already appropriate. A teleconference apparently would not do. But we did share a glass of wine afterwards.


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[Sarah in SC]

katsmeow, I wonder how you might be able to split up and have your DH go to visit sometimes (seeing his peeps) and you go sometimes to see her.

With our huge herd of animals, this is pretty much what we do w seeing DH's mom, and she's a 4 hour drive away. I just figure it is easier to send DH up there for visits, though she'd love to see me as well, she is happy he goes.

[Katsmeow]

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Originally Posted by Sarah in SC katsmeow, I wonder how you might be able to split up and have your DH go to visit sometimes (seeing his peeps) and you go sometimes to see her. With our huge herd of animals, this is pretty much what we do w seeing DH's mom, and she's a 4 hour drive away. I just figure it is easier to send DH up there for visits, though she'd love to see me as well, she is happy he goes.

And, that is something we've done particularly in the last year. It doesn't necessarily stop my mother from complaining, but when she has really needed something it has worked.

She visited here recently for about a week and was after me about us visiting up there this month. She had wanted us to visit early in the summer and we had kids doing summer classes at college all summer so that wouldn't have worked (even if the animals weren't an issue). I told her when she went back home and was talking about us visiting that we really couldn't all come up but I would be able to come up if she needed me in after September started. DH had rotator cuff/bicep surgery in July and can't drive yet so I wasn't going to leave him here alone. She finally seemed to be OK with that.

Part of the issue is that I express that I will come up there, but she is hesitant to tell me when she wants me to come.

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Originally Posted by Meadbh I sympathize! As we age, some if us regress to our childhood way of thinking, when we thought the world revolved around us. Remember the "terrible twos"? Seen through the eyes of a once again toddler, expectations are not rational and nothing can ever be quite good enough.

She has always tended toward this, but has gotten worse lately. My mom (who is in many ways a wonderful person) has always tended to be a "don't confuse me with the facts" kind of person. Once she gets something in her head, she has always been the type not to want to change her mind just because her facts are wrong.

One issue we have with her aging the past few years is that she forgets stuff and it often causes her understanding of the facts to be even more off. And, since she doesn't change her mind once it is made up that makes it worse. She was complaining awhile back that I hadn't called her in a couple of months. Actually I had been calling her an average of every week. It was easy for me to find this since I had cell phone records. I showed them to her, but it didn't seem to help....

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon-nyc I'm surprised no one mentioned our own VA Collector, who retired with his entire nest egg in BofA stock before the financial crisis. There's a terribly depressing thread that took place over the course of a year or more, documenting the collapse of the stock and his determination to 'stay the course'. He ended up going back to work and quit posting here (though he's made a few cameos). Sad story and it unfolded right before our eyes. He was a real mensch about it, I wish he'd come back and post at some point.

I wasn't around here for that. Instead, I witnessed it first hand with some people who live around here who shared their stories in the news. They worked for Nortel Networks, and most had incredibly sad stories. The story was familiar ... having a huge position in the company they worked for by buying into company stock in their 401k.

Really, really ugly stories.

Lesson in retirement or otherwise ... diversify.

[jon-nyc]

It may seem odd that I bring it up given that I registered in 2011, three years after the event. But I lurked for years before registering, so I remember it unfolding.

[Amethyst]

Oh geez. To her, it seems like you don't call enough, so that's her reality. She might expect you to apologize and promise to do better, not "try to prove she's senile" by showing her the call records. Now you have to decide if you're going to go the "just humor her" route. Personally I am terrible at humoring people (even senile people see right through me). What can you do.

Amethyst

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsmeow She was complaining awhile back that I hadn't called her in a couple of months. Actually I had been calling her an average of every week. It was easy for me to find this since I had cell phone records. I showed them to her, but it didn't seem to help....

[BuysToys]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsmeow She has always tended toward this, but has gotten worse lately. My mom (who is in many ways a wonderful person) has always tended to be a "don't confuse me with the facts" kind of person. Once she gets something in her head, she has always been the type not to want to change her mind just because her facts are wrong.

Please don't feel alone! DH and I are also dealing with my mom's inability to look at facts or see the whole picture. Everything is "right" if it's in her personal best interests, agrees with her personal view point, or benefits her in some way. If not, then it is inherently "wrong" and nothing you say will convince her otherwise.

We're also in the midst of dealing with her need for more "stuff." She has at least 30 huge boxes of "stuff" lined up against her garage wall, boxes of "stuff" crammed into the closets of her apartment, and it's still not enough. All I can say is thank goodness she got pissed off at DH and me last fall and hasn't moved in with us yet. There are going to be some major hurdles to get over before that can happen.

[H2ODude]

I'd just caution anyone considering having parent(s) moving in with you to really think it through, do some reading and know what you are getting into. We built addition for MIL and after 8 years of DW being personal assistant, nurse, you name it, we had enough after 3 hospitalizing falls in 3 months as a result of doing stupid things with or without walker. Off to assisted living, and now we're s__t because of it. Oh, and as to what would she have done 8 years ago at 80 unable to work? She'd have worked SOMETHING out (with ~$1,000 a month SS), or so she says. I don't expect accolades but some recognition of the 8 years of room, board, transport, nursing service would have gone a long way. I read about expectations of some parents and just grit my teeth. We cared for my mother and father in their last 6 months with hospice in our home, and it was as good an end and experience as one could hope for given the circumstances. None of it was expected, all of it was appreciated. To say YMMV is a wild understatement. I expect my kids to be there for moral support only, am glad nothing else needed or expected. Good luck all.

[AnIntentionalRoad]

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Originally Posted by ProspectiveBum He's always been terrible with money, and sadly has absolutely nothing to show for it (he's never owned a home, for instance). I actually have no idea where his money goes; it's certainly not to anything lifestyle related. He drives a junky old car, and has old clothes and fur...

Very possible one or more of prostitutes, drink, drugs, or casinos.

I was a semi-pro poker player in my 20's and I witnessed many acquaintances go down those paths; many were divorced, middle aged introverts. This was back in CA in the 90's.

[athena53]

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Originally Posted by H2ODude I expect my kids to be there for moral support only, am glad nothing else needed or expected. Good luck all.

Years ago, DS (my only child) told me he'd take me in when I got too frail to live independently. It warmed my heart when he made the offer, but at the time he was unmarried. That's a huge promise to make for you AND your future family! He's married now, with a wonderful wife and a new baby daughter. As I noted earlier, I may move nearer to them when I'm much older, but it will be a CCRC, and I hope they visit me a lot!

[bulbar]

Really good thread on retirement mistakes. I was considering retiring to a rural location but will think about one closer to hospitals, etc after reading this. I'm thinking of retiring to the Texas hill country and near the town of Wimberley. I think that's close enough to San Antonio. But my wife will probably want to stay in Houston, so maybe not. Either way we'll buy something used and small. I've made some big investment mistakes along the way but nothing like what i read here - day trading your retirement - wow. I am sick of working tho and wish i was closer to being able to quit. My advisor says we need $3mm. Maybe another 7 years but then i'll be 60....

[WestcoastRN]

Two of my closest couple-friends retired from the military about 10 years ago. They retired after 25 years of service, with really nice military pensions and healthcare. Upon retiring they bought 2 new cars, a 42 ft. motorhome, took multiple European trips, and refinanced their house not once but twice to help pay for it all. They also cashed out their TSP accounts because “it’s better to use that money now when you really need it.” They lasted less than 6 months. He ended up having to go find work, and was really lucky when he found a civil service position (using his military connection). With their escalating debt, she had to find a job as well.
Now that they are in their mid-50’s, they are talking about trying retirement again, though their spending habits are just as bad, if not worse. Those 2 pensions plus 2 additional paychecks have given them a false sense of wealth. The car loans have been extended, including the motorhome. And I think they recently refinanced their house for a third time. Now they are talking about selling their home and moving to a more expensive cost of living state to build their dream home. Retirement mistake part II in the making...

[bulbar]

You have to wonder who raised these people? Thankfully I had conservative financial parents I guess. My dad recently passed but had set up my mom well financially by never living above our means. I've only bought 1 new car in my whole life and that was when got my 1st job out of college. Even that made me nervous. Never had any debt except the house. I don't know how you could live any other way unless I guess you are loaded.

[Options]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestcoastRN Two of my closest couple-friends retired from the military about 10 years ago. They retired after 25 years of service, with really nice military pensions and healthcare. Upon retiring they bought 2 new cars, a 42 ft. motorhome, took multiple European trips, and refinanced their house not once but twice to help pay for it all. They also cashed out their TSP accounts because “it’s better to use that money now when you really need it.” They lasted less than 6 months. He ended up having to go find work, and was really lucky when he found a civil service position (using his military connection). With their escalating debt, she had to find a job as well. Now that they are in their mid-50’s, they are talking about trying retirement again, though their spending habits are just as bad, if not worse. Those 2 pensions plus 2 additional paychecks have given them a false sense of wealth. The car loans have been extended, including the motorhome. And I think they recently refinanced their house for a third time. Now they are talking about selling their home and moving to a more expensive cost of living state to build their dream home. Retirement mistake part II in the making...

It could be said that two of the biggest mistakes in retirement, as in all financial planning, are overconfidence and confirmation bias. Brian Tracy has wisely advised to always consider the possibility that your most precious ideas and beliefs are flat out wrong. This advice has served me well over the years and continues to do so.

[Calico]

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Originally Posted by bulbar You have to wonder who raised these people? Thankfully I had conservative financial parents I guess. My dad recently passed but had set up my mom well financially by never living above our means. I've only bought 1 new car in my whole life and that was when got my 1st job out of college. Even that made me nervous. Never had any debt except the house. I don't know how you could live any other way unless I guess you are loaded.

I agree that sometimes fiscally irresponsible behavior is learned in the home, and then repeated. However, that is not always the case.

My father was a complete spendthrift; in debt most of his life, and died still owing money. At a young age I observed how he (mis)handled money, and then did the exact opposite my entire life. I learned what not to do from my parents.

[bulbar]

Good on you calico. I will say that my brother is loose with his money and has sizeable debt but then he's loaded. I just wish costs were not going up so much. Food, energy, you name it. Makes it that much harder to RE.

[robnplunder]

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Originally Posted by bulbar R I was considering retiring to a rural location but will think about one closer to hospitals, etc after reading this. I'm thinking of retiring to the Texas hill country and near the town of Wimberley. I think that's close enough to San Antonio. But my wife will probably want to stay in Houston, so maybe not. Either way we'll buy something used and small. I've made some big investment mistakes along the way but nothing like what i read here - day trading your retirement - wow. I am sick of working tho and wish i was closer to being able to quit. My advisor says we need $3mm. Maybe another 7 years but then i'll be 60....

Need $3 million to retire? Really? I didn't know living in Texas was so expensive. I am thinking $2M is enough for retiring in Northern California with good balanced portfolio. Perhaps, you can open a thread to have RE.org members to weigh in on your situation if you are so willing.

[Calico]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulbar Good on you calico. I will say that my brother is loose with his money and has sizeable debt but then he's loaded. I just wish costs were not going up so much. Food, energy, you name it. Makes it that much harder to RE.

I know what you mean. I have two siblings, and neither one knows how to hold on to a dollar (and they are not loaded). Funny how siblings raised in the same house can turn out so differently. There are threads on this forum about that very subject.

[Walt34]

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Originally Posted by WestcoastRN Retirement mistake part II in the making...

I've often wondered about this and other strange behavior that flies in the face of even loose logic and grade-school arithmetic by otherwise apparently normal and reasonably intelligent people. If you're curious about people's behavior then law enforcement is a good career because you get a front-row seat to some of the weirdest.

Anyway, I've tentatively concluded that with rare exceptions (and present company excluded of course) people are nuts and no amount of analysis will ever determine why.