Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-11-2007, 03:34 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
I assume that you are talking about the current (executive) administration.

I won't defend them by any means as they certainly have not addressed the problem seriously. However this problem has been ignored by both sides over several administrations to pursue their own separate agendas.

Meanwhile Rome is burning as the linked presentation shows.
but the current administration passed the biggest unfunded liability every in the history of our country... the prescription drug bill..... this will cost us TRILLIONS of dollars.. kind of makes the Iraq war look puny...
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-11-2007, 04:53 PM   #22
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
I guess all those who equate liberals and socialism don't use roads or police or fire departments or public education or state supported universities. And never go to libraries or museums. And do not use those socialistic programs that are mentioned in this thread (medicare and social security). Oh no can't have socialism - be sure not to sign up for medicare or social security when you are eligible. And if your argument is I paid into it already - wake up to the fact that you have been supporting socialism your whole working life, you liberal you.

"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society, including the chance to insure.
Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
__________________

__________________
F-One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 05:23 PM   #23
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1
Quote:
I guess all those who equate liberals and socialism don't use roads or police or fire departments or public education or state supported universities. And never go to libraries or museums. And do not use those socialistic programs that are mentioned in this thread (medicare and social security). Oh no can't have socialism - be sure not to sign up for medicare or social security when you are eligible. And if your argument is I paid into it already - wake up to the fact that you have been supporting socialism your whole working life, you liberal you.
Give me a choice. The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy.

There are no privately funded museums? Private schools? And before you say that these things would be too expensive, how much more would you have to spend if you didn't have to pay an federal income tax PLUS state income tax PLUS get nickled and dimed spending your already taxed money (sales tax, use tax, registration fees, property tax, the list goes on).

Regarding social security. Give me a choice. I won't take a dime if I am not forced to pay in. If I am forced (by the guys with the guns) to pay in, you better believe I'll take whatever crappy return they are giving me.

Its moot anyway, as I doubt I'll see a dime of our already bankrupt SS system as it is.
__________________
sharpone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 06:41 PM   #24
Dryer sheet aficionado
Rick S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
"The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy."

Hmmm... let's take roads for example:

Roads -- Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- Funded by the private sector

Which would you view as more successful?
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
Rick S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 08:59 AM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-One View Post
I guess all those who equate liberals and socialism don't use roads or police or fire departments or public education or state supported universities. And never go to libraries or museums. And do not use those socialistic programs that are mentioned in this thread (medicare and social security). Oh no can't have socialism - be sure not to sign up for medicare or social security when you are eligible. And if your argument is I paid into it already - wake up to the fact that you have been supporting socialism your whole working life, you liberal you.

"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society, including the chance to insure.
Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
And I guess you don't realize that we're forced to use the programs set up
by liberals. There is no choice.
Check out the governments in the socialist countries of Europe and then
check out their economies and then compare with the USA.
We're headed in their direction and it's not where we want to be going.
The liberals (socialists) will live to regret it.
.
__________________
renferme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:04 AM   #26
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick S View Post
"The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy."

Hmmm... let's take roads for example:

Roads -- Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- Funded by the private sector

Which would you view as more successful?

Sort of off the topic, but even though railroads are private, they used the government to acquire the property for the railroad lines. There would be no railroads or roads without the power of the government to condemn.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:20 AM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha View Post
Sort of off the topic, but even though railroads are private, they used the government to acquire the property for the railroad lines. There would be no railroads or roads without the power of the government to condemn.
Maybe we need a thread on "eminent domain", perhaps the most powerful tool the US govt has used in the past..........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:21 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
but the current administration passed the biggest unfunded liability every in the history of our country... the prescription drug bill..... this will cost us TRILLIONS of dollars.. kind of makes the Iraq war look puny...
Agree.........whatever happened to fiscal conservastism, am I the last one?
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:31 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
To suggest that

Roads -- are Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- are Funded by the private sector

just shows the ignorance that abounds.
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:43 AM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
To suggest that

Roads -- are Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- are Funded by the private sector

just shows the ignorance that abounds.
Interesting, I wonder why Congress supports Amtrak as a budget item even though Amtrak loses about $300-$400 million a year??
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 10:09 AM   #31
Dryer sheet aficionado
Rick S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
...sorry...
I should have said that Railroads were originally primarily funded by the private sector.
.. which is why they are in such trouble today.

(I'm not that ignorant... and don't appreciate name calling).
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
Rick S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 10:12 AM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Rick S:

You need to go read the history of the railroads
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 10:13 AM   #33
Dryer sheet aficionado
Rick S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
Fine... you've said it in a nicer way....

OK... everyone who's not for George W is clearly a socialist.
Happy now?
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
Rick S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 10:26 AM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick S View Post
...sorry...
I should have said that Railroads were originally primarily funded by the private sector.
.. which is why they are in such trouble today.

(I'm not that ignorant... and don't appreciate name calling).
More of a "government grabbing the land" and "financial robber barons using foreign labor as expendable human sacrifice" than a nice and tidy partnership of equals........

Where's Diamond Jim Brady to sort this all out for us??
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 11:16 AM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 5,735
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpone View Post
Give me a choice. The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy. ..
I can see it now:
911:
My house is in fire, please send the firemen!
Which fire service do you use sir?
Acme Fire Services!
Wait until I connect you with their claims adjudicator...
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 11:43 AM   #36
Dryer sheet aficionado
Rick S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
My earlier point is that to tell someone to "go read up" on something is just calling them ignorant in a different way.
... if you want to be helpful, provide some input and "educate" those of us that you think need it!

On the railroads,
" More of a "government grabbing the land" and "financial robber barons using foreign labor as expendable human sacrifice" than a nice and tidy partnership of equals....."
Is that really that different from how today's private industry runs... different terms, but same stuff happens, eh?

Actually, though, I like the 911 analogy better...
....although you'd probably first have to go through a menu tree to choose your 911 service:
"Press 1 for AAA 911 Emergency Service"
"Press 2 for Joe's 911 and Bait and Tackle Service"
... etc.
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
Rick S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 02:16 PM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick S View Post
On the railroads,
" More of a "government grabbing the land" and "financial robber barons using foreign labor as expendable human sacrifice" than a nice and tidy partnership of equals....."
Is that really that different from how today's private industry runs... different terms, but same stuff happens, eh?
Sorry, I was sarcastically summing up what ACTUALLY happened with the railroads back in the day......
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 03:14 PM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
Agree.........whatever happened to fiscal conservastism, am I the last one?

Nope.... but there are few of us... and of course the Repubs will be voted out because of what they did and it will be 20 or so years before they get back in power...

I get pissed that the conservative party became the right wing wacko party
__________________
Texas Proud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 03:20 PM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Rick_S

You seem to be angry, yet you continue to espouse on which you know little. Ignorant and opinionated - that's a not a good combination.

So just to enlighten you on the socialistic nature of yet one of the well known railroad projects I post the following on the First Transcontinental Railroad ...

Two railroad companies were involved, the Central Pacific from the west and the Union Pacific from the east. Each was required to build only 50 miles (80 km) in the first year; after that, only 50 miles (80 km) more were required each year. Besides land grants along the right-of-way, each railroad was subsidized $16,000 per mile ($9,940/km) built over an easy grade, $32,000 per mile ($19,880/km) in the high plains, and $48,000 per mile ($29,830/km) in the mountains. The race was on to see which railroad company could build the longest section of track.

Those land grants, over the longer term by the way, were more valuable than the direct subsidy. As I recall they were given 10 square miles of prime farmland for each mile of line built.

Your example of roads and railroads was a very poor choice to contrast public and private investment and to contrast capitalism versus socialism.
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 03:48 PM   #40
Dryer sheet aficionado
Rick S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
Rick_S

You seem to be angry, yet you continue to espouse on which you know little. Ignorant and opinionated - that's a not a good combination.
Thanks for your opinion of me personally.

I would think facts would be more persuasive than name calling, but, hey, whatever turns you on.

I'm fine with being told I'm wrong if you have facts to support it.
Being told I'm ignorant... well, you can go as low as you'd like.

I'm ugly too!
__________________

__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
Rick S is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
U.S. Government Rigging The Equity Markets? Donner FIRE and Money 57 09-15-2005 04:01 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:00 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.