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07-11-2007, 02:34 PM
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#21
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
I assume that you are talking about the current (executive) administration.
I won't defend them by any means as they certainly have not addressed the problem seriously. However this problem has been ignored by both sides over several administrations to pursue their own separate agendas.
Meanwhile Rome is burning as the linked presentation shows.
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but the current administration passed the biggest unfunded liability every in the history of our country... the prescription drug bill..... this will cost us TRILLIONS of dollars.. kind of makes the Iraq war look puny...
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07-11-2007, 03:53 PM
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#22
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 223
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I guess all those who equate liberals and socialism don't use roads or police or fire departments or public education or state supported universities. And never go to libraries or museums. And do not use those socialistic programs that are mentioned in this thread (medicare and social security). Oh no can't have socialism - be sure not to sign up for medicare or social security when you are eligible. And if your argument is I paid into it already - wake up to the fact that you have been supporting socialism your whole working life, you liberal you.
"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society, including the chance to insure.”
Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
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07-11-2007, 04:23 PM
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#23
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Confused about dryer sheets
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1
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Quote:
I guess all those who equate liberals and socialism don't use roads or police or fire departments or public education or state supported universities. And never go to libraries or museums. And do not use those socialistic programs that are mentioned in this thread (medicare and social security). Oh no can't have socialism - be sure not to sign up for medicare or social security when you are eligible. And if your argument is I paid into it already - wake up to the fact that you have been supporting socialism your whole working life, you liberal you.
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Give me a choice. The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy.
There are no privately funded museums? Private schools? And before you say that these things would be too expensive, how much more would you have to spend if you didn't have to pay an federal income tax PLUS state income tax PLUS get nickled and dimed spending your already taxed money (sales tax, use tax, registration fees, property tax, the list goes on).
Regarding social security. Give me a choice. I won't take a dime if I am not forced to pay in. If I am forced (by the guys with the guns) to pay in, you better believe I'll take whatever crappy return they are giving me.
Its moot anyway, as I doubt I'll see a dime of our already bankrupt SS system as it is.
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07-11-2007, 05:41 PM
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#24
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
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"The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy."
Hmmm... let's take roads for example:
Roads -- Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- Funded by the private sector
Which would you view as more successful?
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
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07-12-2007, 07:59 AM
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#25
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-One
I guess all those who equate liberals and socialism don't use roads or police or fire departments or public education or state supported universities. And never go to libraries or museums. And do not use those socialistic programs that are mentioned in this thread (medicare and social security). Oh no can't have socialism - be sure not to sign up for medicare or social security when you are eligible. And if your argument is I paid into it already - wake up to the fact that you have been supporting socialism your whole working life, you liberal you.
"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society, including the chance to insure.”
Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
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And I guess you don't realize that we're forced to use the programs set up
by liberals. There is no choice.
Check out the governments in the socialist countries of Europe and then
check out their economies and then compare with the USA.
We're headed in their direction and it's not where we want to be going.
The liberals (socialists) will live to regret it.
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07-12-2007, 08:04 AM
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#26
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick S
"The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy."
Hmmm... let's take roads for example:
Roads -- Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- Funded by the private sector
Which would you view as more successful?
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Sort of off the topic, but even though railroads are private, they used the government to acquire the property for the railroad lines. There would be no railroads or roads without the power of the government to condemn.
__________________
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No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA
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07-12-2007, 08:20 AM
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#27
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Sort of off the topic, but even though railroads are private, they used the government to acquire the property for the railroad lines. There would be no railroads or roads without the power of the government to condemn.
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Maybe we need a thread on "eminent domain", perhaps the most powerful tool the US govt has used in the past..........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
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07-12-2007, 08:21 AM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
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07-12-2007, 08:31 AM
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#29
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
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To suggest that
Roads -- are Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- are Funded by the private sector
just shows the ignorance that abounds.
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07-12-2007, 08:43 AM
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#30
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
To suggest that
Roads -- are Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- are Funded by the private sector
just shows the ignorance that abounds.
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Interesting, I wonder why Congress supports Amtrak as a budget item even though Amtrak loses about $300-$400 million a year??
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
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07-12-2007, 09:09 AM
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#31
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
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...sorry...
I should have said that Railroads were originally primarily funded by the private sector.
.. which is why they are in such trouble today.
(I'm not that ignorant... and don't appreciate name calling).
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
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07-12-2007, 09:12 AM
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#32
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
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Rick S:
You need to go read the history of the railroads
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07-12-2007, 09:13 AM
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#33
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
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Fine... you've said it in a nicer way....
OK... everyone who's not for George W is clearly a socialist.
Happy now?
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
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07-12-2007, 09:26 AM
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#34
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
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07-12-2007, 10:16 AM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 7,677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpone
Give me a choice. The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy. ..
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I can see it now:
911:
My house is in fire, please send the firemen!
Which fire service do you use sir?
Acme Fire Services!
Wait until I connect you with their claims adjudicator...
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
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07-12-2007, 10:43 AM
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#36
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
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My earlier point is that to tell someone to "go read up" on something is just calling them ignorant in a different way.
... if you want to be helpful, provide some input and "educate" those of us that you think need it!
On the railroads,
" More of a "government grabbing the land" and "financial robber barons using foreign labor as expendable human sacrifice" than a nice and tidy partnership of equals....."
Is that really that different from how today's private industry runs... different terms, but same stuff happens, eh?
Actually, though, I like the 911 analogy better...
....although you'd probably first have to go through a menu tree to choose your 911 service:
"Press 1 for AAA 911 Emergency Service"
"Press 2 for Joe's 911 and Bait and Tackle Service"
... etc.
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
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07-12-2007, 01:16 PM
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#37
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick S
On the railroads,
" More of a "government grabbing the land" and "financial robber barons using foreign labor as expendable human sacrifice" than a nice and tidy partnership of equals....."
Is that really that different from how today's private industry runs... different terms, but same stuff happens, eh?
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Sorry, I was sarcastically summing up what ACTUALLY happened with the railroads back in the day......
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)
This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
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07-12-2007, 02:14 PM
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#38
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,203
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Quote:
Nope.... but there are few of us... and of course the Repubs will be voted out because of what they did and it will be 20 or so years before they get back in power...
I get pissed that the conservative party became the right wing wacko party
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07-12-2007, 02:20 PM
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#39
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
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Rick_S
You seem to be angry, yet you continue to espouse on which you know little. Ignorant and opinionated - that's a not a good combination.
So just to enlighten you on the socialistic nature of yet one of the well known railroad projects I post the following on the First Transcontinental Railroad ...
Two railroad companies were involved, the Central Pacific from the west and the Union Pacific from the east. Each was required to build only 50 miles (80 km) in the first year; after that, only 50 miles (80 km) more were required each year. Besides land grants along the right-of-way, each railroad was subsidized $16,000 per mile ($9,940/km) built over an easy grade, $32,000 per mile ($19,880/km) in the high plains, and $48,000 per mile ($29,830/km) in the mountains. The race was on to see which railroad company could build the longest section of track.
Those land grants, over the longer term by the way, were more valuable than the direct subsidy. As I recall they were given 10 square miles of prime farmland for each mile of line built.
Your example of roads and railroads was a very poor choice to contrast public and private investment and to contrast capitalism versus socialism.
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07-12-2007, 02:48 PM
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#40
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
Rick_S
You seem to be angry, yet you continue to espouse on which you know little. Ignorant and opinionated - that's a not a good combination.
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Thanks for your opinion of me personally.
I would think facts would be more persuasive than name calling, but, hey, whatever turns you on.
I'm fine with being told I'm wrong if you have facts to support it.
Being told I'm ignorant... well, you can go as low as you'd like.
I'm ugly too!
__________________
This life is a test... it is only a test. Had it been a real life, we would have been given further instructions on where to go and what to do.
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