collect unemployment????

[2B]

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud This is wrong... at least in Texas... I have collected unemployment and been paid for severance... I was laid off, no access to work, no expectations of me doing any kind of work... heck, payments for me not to work.... Now, a second time the company said they would continue to pay me but that if they needed me they would call.... THIS means you cannot get UI... Info above from the source itself... I asked my case worker why I did not qualify for the second one and did for the first....

Some firms in the E&C business have "company convenience leave." You're basically laid off but if you have PTO you can take it. When the PTO is gone, you continue to get benefits but you have to physically pay your share of any costs. When on this type of leave, you aren't eligible for UEI. Companies will only typically do this for a couple of months and then only when they expect/hope to bring you back to the regular payroll.

I've known people to refuse "company convenience leave" to get the unemployment. If you hope to continue working, a good half of any UE would go towards your COBRA costs unless your spouse is insured. It also probably puts you at the end of the line if people start getting called back.

[Al in Ohio]

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Originally Posted by Senator If you get severance pay in a lump sum, you can apply the next week. If you get it over several weeks/months, you have to wait until the severance runs out. The fact you got severance pay, means you got laid off. Not retired. You are entitled to any UE benefits that are available.

Then the state you live in is pretty liberal in policy. I know in my state they calculate just how long that severance amount will carry you under a formula and it would still work out to be a long time before eligibility.

The analogy is the same as if you suffered loss from someone's actions say in an auto accident in which the other party was at fault. You sued and won a settlement. Your insurance company only pays out what is covered under the insurance policy minus what you won it court. It's unemployment insurance. It's there to make sure you don't go hungry and can pay your bills in case there is no rainy day fund of your own to give you time to get another job. If you get a settlement or severance, then your already taken care of for that length of time or equivalent income period.

I'd suggest you just call up your local office, be honest with your final separation terms and outlay, and see what they say.

Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[brett]

I had a golden handshake but had to negotiate. One of the first things my lawyer said was to register for employment insurance. I did.

Ended up taking 38 weeks of insurance. I was entitled to it. I had never made a claim in 42 odd years of paying in. Did I feel guilty knowing that I had no intention of returning to work...unless it was a fabulous offer. No.

[Walt34]

As mentioned it varies by state. Since your HR dept. mentioned it, it may be expected, go ahead and apply. The worst they can do is say "no".

While it is generally true that while receiving UI benefits one has to be actively searching for work, what defines "searching for work" varies widely. It may be very little effort at all.

[outabout]

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Originally Posted by DFA In CO, I applied, but payments were delayed by the following: severance + vacation paid divided by weekly pay rate at employer, equals number of weeks of delay, but I am still able to collect as long as I am actively looking for a job once the delay is over.

Thank you. I am in CO and is faced with the similar situation. This helps me understand how it work in CO.

[FUEGO]

In my state, I would apply and they would count any severance or vacation time payout as basically continued pay from the company. Whether it was lump sum or a recurring payment. I actually applied for unemployment, and they didn't process mine correctly, so I started getting UI payments after 1 week of unemployment even though I had 6 weeks of vacation payout in my final check. My coworker (who was fired at the same time as me) was in the same situation, and they deemed him ineligible to collect for 6 weeks due to the vacation payout.

[Walt34]

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Originally Posted by FUEGO In my state, I would apply and they would count any severance or vacation time payout as basically continued pay from the company.

This is a good example of how it varies from state to state. In WV the vacation payout was not considered since that was earned while still employed even though the money was paid after my position was terminated.

That's why it is best to go ahead and apply and not listen to anyone else. The rules are all over the map and you won't know until you apply.

[FUEGO]

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Originally Posted by Walt34 This is a good example of how it varies from state to state. In WV the vacation payout was not considered since that was earned while still employed even though the money was paid after my position was terminated. That's why it is best to go ahead and apply and not listen to anyone else. The rules are all over the map and you won't know until you apply.

Yeah, the rules in NC are that your UI checks are postponed one week for each week of vacation pay out, or each week of severance pay. Like if you received $4000 severance and you used to make $1000/wk, that means you can't collect UI until after 5 weeks (1 week wait is the default plus 4 weeks of "termination pay" or whatever they call it).

Good advice though - just apply, be honest on the application and be honest when they call you for your initial determination of eligibility.

[Texconsin]

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Originally Posted by marko +1 Exactly! I'm tired of the TV pundits who call it 'welfare'. We PAID for this!

Absolutely right!

And get off my lawn!

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by 2B Some firms in the E&C business have "company convenience leave." You're basically laid off but if you have PTO you can take it. When the PTO is gone, you continue to get benefits but you have to physically pay your share of any costs. When on this type of leave, you aren't eligible for UEI. Companies will only typically do this for a couple of months and then only when they expect/hope to bring you back to the regular payroll. I've known people to refuse "company convenience leave" to get the unemployment. If you hope to continue working, a good half of any UE would go towards your COBRA costs unless your spouse is insured. It also probably puts you at the end of the line if people start getting called back.

Not sure what the difference is.... when I was let go by mega I received 7 or so months of severance pay.... it was just like my old paycheck.... they took out my contribution for insurance and IIRC for the 401(k)... I cannot remember if they mentioned UI or not... but I did apply and answered all questions correctly and received it...

The only time that was excluded was the weeks that was a notice requirement which they did not require me to come to work... I got 8 weeks... had to work 4 and could stay home the next 4... after that I qualified...

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by Walt34 This is a good example of how it varies from state to state. In WV the vacation payout was not considered since that was earned while still employed even though the money was paid after my position was terminated. That's why it is best to go ahead and apply and not listen to anyone else. The rules are all over the map and you won't know until you apply.

I think in Texas it is considered since that is one of the questions they ask...

[Options]

HR rep was a good person, as they didn't have to tell you to apply. Technically, at least in California, you can only collect if you lose a job through "no fault of your own", which excludes resigining. I tell everyone to apply, whether they've resigned or not. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. For you to not get the benefits, the company has to challenge the application. I tell people when they ask for the reason for leaving the organization, to state "separation" with no further explanation. This puts the onus on the employer to challenge.

Also, after resignation, if you work even a week on a temp job and it ends, you can apply for unemployment. The unemployment will come from the account of the employer you resigned from.

[photoguy]

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Originally Posted by Senator I collected UE a while back. All you have to do is put in a resume on line, and watch it disappear. Maybe 3-4 a month. No one ever audit any places. It's a pretty good gig if you can get it.

The OP had asked about the ethics of obtaining UE and stated that he/she had no intention of returning to work. If this is indeed true, then the OP should not obtain UE since he/she would fail the willingness to work requirement.

California requires one to certify that they meet the eligibility requirements (probably other states require something similar). If the OP were to certify they meet the requirements for UE but really had no intention of returning to work -- that would be an intentional misrepresentation (i.e. fraud) and in my opinion would not be ethical.

Now I'm sure many people get UE and certify even though they do not intend to work. It would probably be nearly impossible to prove that a person was just going through the motions solely to get the UE checks. So I don't think there's any risk but I see this as a separate issue from whether it is right or not for the OP to apply for UE.

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UE is no different than SS. It's an insurance you pay into, and collect when you need it. The employer pays 100% of the premium, much like SS where the employer pays 50%.

I don't see them as the same as UE has a different set of eligibility requirements.

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by jim584672 If the HR rep mentioned UI then they are expecting you will apply and it shouldn't be a problem. As long as you are actively seeking work your claim is valid. Some states require a declaration that you are actively seeking work. As far as severance preventing UI, it depends on the laws in your state. You could apply and see what happens.

This is how it works in Illinois and how it worked for me. Getting a severance was OK but you do have to be actively looking for work and keep records to prove it.

[freebird5825]

I say go for it.

Be honest throughout the application process, follow the rules to the letter, see what happens.

[RunningBum]

I never filed for unemployment insurance when I got let go with a separation package.

Employers pay for the insurance, not employees, so I never felt like this was something I paid into all these years. Maybe I would've gotten higher wages had my employers not paid this insurance, maybe not, but it is not something workers directly paid for.

Social security is something I did pay into, and as I see it, it is set up as a payment for those in later years to help with expenses. When I get into those later years it will apply to me and I will take the benefit, just like taking the small pension I got from one of my jobs.

Unemployment insurance is set up to provide money to those out of a job while they are looking for another job. Since I wasn't looking for another job I didn't feel like this applied to me, so I didn't try to take the benefit. It just didn't feel right to me to apply.

If others in a similar position do differently, that doesn't really bother me. Maybe some planned/needed to work another year so collecting a year of benefits gets them through that time. Not for me to judge.

[unclemick]

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Originally Posted by Senator I would apply for UE for sure. Worst case, they deny your claim. It is not illegal to apply, it is illegal to get benefits under false pretenses. Answer the questions honestly, and get what you have coming. After all, UE is an insurance, not a hand out.

Layoff - 16 wks severance. Then unemployment the max ?23 wks. In my case I ended up as a temp after a year. Could not refuse the $ as a jobshopper.

Which also cured of any thoughts of work.

heh heh heh - as I have said before it took a while to make the mental shift from 'unemployed slacker' to 'high class ER'. I think I even gave up the clothesline and got a dryer for dryer sheets.

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by RunningBum I never filed for unemployment insurance when I got let go with a separation package. Employers pay for the insurance, not employees, so I never felt like this was something I paid into all these years. Maybe I would've gotten higher wages had my employers not paid this insurance, maybe not, but it is not something workers directly paid for. Social security is something I did pay into, and as I see it, it is set up as a payment for those in later years to help with expenses. When I get into those later years it will apply to me and I will take the benefit, just like taking the small pension I got from one of my jobs. Unemployment insurance is set up to provide money to those out of a job while they are looking for another job. Since I wasn't looking for another job I didn't feel like this applied to me, so I didn't try to take the benefit. It just didn't feel right to me to apply. If others in a similar position do differently, that doesn't really bother me. Maybe some planned/needed to work another year so collecting a year of benefits gets them through that time. Not for me to judge.

The problem with this thinking is that the company paid into UI for the benefit of the employee... it is not some general tax that can be used for anything.... it can only be used for UI....

You only 'pay' half of SS... so in your thinking we could cut your benefit in half and you would be OK with that I think not...

The company pays for a lot of things where you get the benefit.... health, dental, life, disability etc. etc... would you refuse getting disability pay if you qualified for it just because the company paid for it Again, I think not...

[FUEGO]

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Originally Posted by RunningBum I never filed for unemployment insurance when I got let go with a separation package. /snip Unemployment insurance is set up to provide money to those out of a job while they are looking for another job. Since I wasn't looking for another job I didn't feel like this applied to me, so I didn't try to take the benefit. It just didn't feel right to me to apply.

You wouldn't be eligible for unemployment because you weren't actively looking for work. You have to certify each week that you are looking for work.

In my case, I was actually looking for work, and would have taken a job if the perfect one landed in my lap. I actually went to one job interview that, if offered the job, I would have taken. It just wasn't meant to be.

[Rustward]

You asked what we would do in similar situations. Because you have no intention of pursuing full time employment, technically, you will not be eligible for a benefit. That's it. Now you can get around that and collect a benefit, but you have to decide if that is ethical or not.

I was RIFd in 2001. Nice severance package. HR told me I would be eligible for unemployment. I took six weeks off then went to an outplacement outfit that was part of the separation benefits and they encouraged me to apply, which I did. Before I could collect anything, I started a contract job at a healthy rate, so I never collected.

RIFd again in '08. Owner offered me some cash contingent on me not applying for unemployment. He was positioning to sell out and wanted to keep things clean. We were already FI and RE was possible but I wasn't sure I could cope with the lifestyle change. I took the cash and honored my agreement to not apply, and eased toward RE. A deal is a deal. . . . and I adjusted just fine.

My suggestion is like some of the others: Go ahead and apply, but understand and follow the rules. If you qualify for a benefit, take it, but if you don't qualify, don't take it.