Do it yourself wills

roger r · 11-20-2008, 12:27 PM

Are there any of you who have done your own wills, medical power of attorney, living will, etc. who would have suggestions and recommendations. I've run across a few simple forms on the web that seem helpful but would probably be interested in a good book that has some descriptions and help. I have some books on estate planning from the financial standpoint and am OK there. I mostly need to get the formal documents in place. Thanks!

freebird5825 · 11-20-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger r

Are there any of you who have done your own wills, medical power of attorney, living will, etc. who would have suggestions and recommendations. I've run across a few simple forms on the web that seem helpful but would probably be interested in a good book that has some descriptions and help. I have some books on estate planning from the financial standpoint and am OK there. I mostly need to get the formal documents in place. Thanks!

disclaimer...i'm a FIREd engineer, not an attorney.
if you have a simple situation and your bequests follow the usual track (spouse, kids, parents, siblings), DIY is fine but i do not recommend it. i served as Alternate Executor for my mom, and Executor for my late husband. My mom's was DIY, my late husband's was done formally through an attorney. Guess which one went thru smoothly and which did not?
i personally use an estate attorney cuz i have a complicated inheritance situation. peace of mind has no price. and i KNOW my documents cannot be challenged after i'm pushing daisies.
i did my own many years ago by downloading forms from the Cornell University Law School library, www.cornell.edu and visiting the NYS Bar Association for articles about wills and HCP and Living Wills etc. i used these to put together drafts which were emailed and formalized and rounded out by my attorney. i saved myself some fees by doing that upfront work.
look for similar institutions in your home state.
NOLO puts out a good series of easy to read legal guidebooks.

M Paquette · 11-20-2008, 12:42 PM

Nolo Press has some good books and forms for this.

Wills & Estate Planning - Resource Center
Wills & Estate Planning - Resource Center

I've used these myself. Of course, I don't know how well it will work out in my case...

If nothing else, it will give you the background and details you'll need to fill in before visiting an attorney.

Life_is_Good · 11-20-2008, 12:48 PM

Disclaimer - I know nothing - don't hold me responsible for anything.

Here's a link to DIY forms for every state...

ILRG Legal Forms Archive - 2,000+ Free Legal Forms and Documents

Urchina · 11-20-2008, 12:52 PM

We did DIY wills using the Nolo books recommended above. We have a pretty straightforward estate right now, and are comfortable with our choice. It helps that our families are direct, sane and thoughtful -- we're not really worried about a big fight if/when we go (since we're young and healthy this is an even lesser concern).

If you've got a lot of contention in your family, it might be best to hire an attorney. Just my thoughts.

**Martha** · 11-20-2008, 01:07 PM

If you have a taxable estate for sure I would see a lawyer.

Goonie · 11-20-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird5825

disclaimer...i'm a FIREd engineer, not an attorney.
if you have a simple situation and your bequests follow the usual track (spouse, kids, parents, siblings), DIY is fine but i do not recommend it......

......i used these to put together drafts which were emailed and formalized and rounded out by my attorney. i saved myself some fees by doing that upfront work......

NOLO puts out a good series of easy to read legal guidebooks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Paquette

Nolo Press has some good books and forms for this.

Wills & Estate Planning - Resource Center
Wills & Estate Planning - Resource Center

I've used these myself. Of course, I don't know how well it will work out in my case...

If nothing else, it will give you the background and details you'll need to fill in before visiting an attorney.

Disclaimer....I'm just a big kid who does nothing but play all day....everyday. But I agree with Freebird and M Paquette.....NOLO's books (and included CD's with various documents and resources on them) are excellent. They walk you through it all pretty much step-by-step, and give clear examples. If you have more than a fairly simple estate and/or wishes, you can use NOLO's stuff to get a good idea of what you want and how you want it, and then take your results and go sit down with an estate attorney to hash out the details.....to make sure the I's are dotted, and the T's are all crossed....and to make sure that what you came up with is acceptable and legal in your state. Better safe than sorry, 'cause in the end, you won't be around to say "No! That's not what I meant or wanted!" Dead men tell no tales.....nor can they clarify what was written in their last will and testament!

**Bestwifeever** · 11-20-2008, 01:12 PM

I imagine a DIY will using NOLO's boilerplate is better than no will.

Goonie · 11-20-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urchina

If you've got a lot of contention in your family, it might be best to hire an attorney. Just my thoughts.

You've got that right! That's what we did with all of my Mom's 'end of life' paperwork....Will, POA, POA for health care, etc., etc. Only because one of my siblings, who has been a PITA before, is more than likely going to be a PITA in the future. They feel that they were short changed by our parents all of their lives.....which was never the case....so they will most likely try to cause problems when it comes time to settle Mom's estate. That's the #1 reason we had her have an estate attorney take care of everything....well worth the small fee!

Her attorney made sure that everything is exactly as she wanted it, and that everything is exactly the way it needs to be....no loopholes, no omissions, etc. Everything is spelled out very plainly in black & white. Plus all of her accounts (bank, insurance policies, investments, etc.) either are P.O.D. or have one of us as joint-owner or listed as beneficiary. The house and other personal property & affects are all specified in her will.

FinanceDude · 11-20-2008, 02:11 PM

Three words: DON'T DO IT!!!

I know this is a frugal crowd, but I have personally seen diasters coming out of WillWorks and some over programs. I am pretty sure in Wisconsin a licensed bar attorney has to sign off on estate tax stuff for it to be legit.........

OAG · 11-20-2008, 02:34 PM

I used Will Maker several year ago. Quicken® WillMaker Plus 2009

freebird5825 · 11-20-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonie

You've got that right! That's what we did with all of my Mom's 'end of life' paperwork....Will, POA, POA for health care, etc., etc. Only because one of my siblings, who has been a PITA before, is more than likely going to be a PITA in the future. They feel that they were short changed by our parents all of their lives.....which was never the case....so they will most likely try to cause problems when it comes time to settle Mom's estate. That's the #1 reason we had her have an estate attorney take care of everything....well worth the small fee!

Her attorney made sure that everything is exactly as she wanted it, and that everything is exactly the way it needs to be....no loopholes, no omissions, etc. Everything is spelled out very plainly in black & white. Plus all of her accounts (bank, insurance policies, investments, etc.) either are P.O.D. or have one of us as joint-owner or listed as beneficiary. The house and other personal property & affects are all specified in her will.

are we related? j/k
let me put it this way...a DIY will was by far the biggest nightmare my family had to deal with. As Alternate Executor, i had to have my attorney call the Executor's attorney and read him the riot act and threaten grand larceny charges due to the Executor absconding with my mom's assets while her will was in probate. it was almost declared invalid, but i had a signed original copy she had sent me recently. Yay Mom!!!
this is not a money saving area. it will cost you and your family more later.

Geoffrey · 11-20-2008, 02:49 PM

I've been an attorney for nearly 30 years, practicing in government contracts. I would NOT try to draft my own will. Perhaps if I was single and my assets were very limited I might give it a try, but anyone who has a family and substantial assets would be well-advised to see a lawyer -- one who has prepared numerous wills before. A will may appear to be a simple instrument, but there a many traps for the unwary. IMHO, drafting your own will makes about as much sense as trying to perform surgery on yourself, aided of course by a do-it-yourself book.

FinanceDude · 11-20-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey

I've been an attorney for nearly 30 years, practicing in government contracts. I would NOT try to draft my own will. Perhaps if I was single and my assets were very limited I might give it a try, but anyone who has a family and substantial assets would be well-advised to see a lawyer -- one who has prepared numerous wills before. A will may appear to be a simple instrument, but there a many traps for the unwary. IMHO, drafting your own will makes about as much sense as trying to perform surgery on yourself, aided of course by a do-it-yourself book.

I am going to borrow your last sentence, and put it in my signature, if that's ok with you........

freebird5825 · 11-20-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey

I've been an attorney for nearly 30 years, practicing in government contracts. I would NOT try to draft my own will. Perhaps if I was single and my assets were very limited I might give it a try, but anyone who has a family and substantial assets would be well-advised to see a lawyer -- one who has prepared numerous wills before. A will may appear to be a simple instrument, but there a many traps for the unwary. IMHO, drafting your own will makes about as much sense as trying to perform surgery on yourself, aided of course by a do-it-yourself book.

Thank you, sir. Case closed.

BTW, I was a PM for said contracts. We Engineers tried not to drive the legal folks too crazy.

Urchina · 11-20-2008, 04:33 PM

When I argue for a do-it-yourself simple will, it's with the following in mind:
1. Your personal situation is relatively simple.
2. Your estate is relatively small.
3. You have reason to believe that your will will be respected by your family.
4. You use boilerplate or forms from a reputable source.
5. You keep your brain engaged during the process.

While I agree that increasing levels of complexity provide increasing potential for major mess-ups, I remain unconvinced that using a well-researched and standard legal guide (such as a Nolo product) to write a simple will is a guarantee of disaster.

Indeed, I think a greater disaster would be to die without a will, leaving the disposition of your estate solely to the discretion of the courts.

There are other standard legal do-it-yourself forms out there that don't seem to be particularly problematic (health care directives come to mind), so I'm skeptical of claims that only an attorney can prepare a legal document that will hold up in court. No disrespect intended to attorneys in general, and I realize that they have a high level of legal training that is necessary for the more complicated maneuvers in our lives (irrevocable/revocable trusts, for example).

travelover · 11-20-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey

I've been an attorney for nearly 30 years................. IMHO, drafting your own will makes about as much sense as trying to perform surgery on yourself, aided of course by a do-it-yourself book.

Call me a skeptic, but I see a tiny opportunity for conflict of interest here.

Any other attorneys care to comment on the will preparation process - i. e. do you use canned software to generate a will similar to the do it yourself kits, then bless it as applicable to the client at hand?

**Martha** · 11-20-2008, 05:04 PM

Why a conflict? He isn't looking for business here.

What attorneys are able to do and are trained to do is think about all the bad things that can happen and how to avoid them. In fact, I just read that attorneys score far higher on pessimism than the average person. It is all that thinking about the worst case.

Estate planning attorneys also have the training to figure out the best way to minimize taxes while still effecting your intentions and they can give you ideas you never thought about so you may change your intentions as part of the process. I know that we did.

Some parts of the docs prepared are boilerplate or a choice among options. Other parts may be designed for you. But what you need and how to get there is the value added by the estate planner.

That said, if you have minimal assets, don't have prior families, illegitimate children, unusual assets, etc.,etc., etc., and plan to leave your stuff to your spouse, and if your spouse is dead to your kids, then a respected kit may be fine. Keep in mind issues with assets that don't pass through a will, such as joint assets and assets with beneficiary designations. There may be consequences with these assets. Joint account with a child? Can a creditor of your child get the account? Do you know? What about putting your house in a life estate with your kids? What happens if the kids get divorced? Or have financial problems? Do you know?

I also am a lawyer and did not do my own will. There were complications. Taxable estate. No children. Trust for disabled family members, and a few other issues.

Mistakes are costly. And don't forget, the rules change and your situation changes so you need to revisit your estate plan regularly.

**Martha** · 11-20-2008, 05:12 PM

People can get themselves in odd binds. I just remembered a situation with some people I heard about. They opened accounts in their children's names and gifted the max into the accounts every year. The accounts had their adult children's social security numbers. The 1099 went to the parents address and was ignored. Someone had a big tax problem. Who?

11-20-2008, 12:52 PM	#5
Urchina Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 389	We did DIY wills using the Nolo books recommended above. We have a pretty straightforward estate right now, and are comfortable with our choice. It helps that our families are direct, sane and thoughtful -- we're not really worried about a big fight if/when we go (since we're young and healthy this is an even lesser concern). If you've got a lot of contention in your family, it might be best to hire an attorney. Just my thoughts. __________________ "You'd be surprised at how much it costs to look this cheap." -- Dolly Parton

11-20-2008, 01:07 PM	#6
Martha Administrator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 10,065	If you have a taxable estate for sure I would see a lawyer. __________________ . Do not rely on the information provided--my posts are not to be taken as legal advice. Needless to say you must consult with your legal representative. I am not responsible for errors. If I offended you with cya I apologize. If I did not, I tried.

11-20-2008, 02:11 PM	#10
FinanceDude Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 7,695	Three words: DON'T DO IT!!! I know this is a frugal crowd, but I have personally seen diasters coming out of WillWorks and some over programs. I am pretty sure in Wisconsin a licensed bar attorney has to sign off on estate tax stuff for it to be legit......... __________________ Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)

11-20-2008, 02:34 PM	#11
OAG Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dublin, Ohio Posts: 1,926	I used Will Maker several year ago. Quicken® WillMaker Plus 2009 __________________ Proud Vietnam Veteran: Cu Chi 66, 1 Bde, 25ID & Pleiku 66-67 41st Sig Bn 1st STRATCOM - Army Retired Jun 1979.

11-20-2008, 04:33 PM	#16
Urchina Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 389	When I argue for a do-it-yourself simple will, it's with the following in mind: 1. Your personal situation is relatively simple. 2. Your estate is relatively small. 3. You have reason to believe that your will will be respected by your family. 4. You use boilerplate or forms from a reputable source. 5. You keep your brain engaged during the process. While I agree that increasing levels of complexity provide increasing potential for major mess-ups, I remain unconvinced that using a well-researched and standard legal guide (such as a Nolo product) to write a simple will is a guarantee of disaster. Indeed, I think a greater disaster would be to die without a will, leaving the disposition of your estate solely to the discretion of the courts. There are other standard legal do-it-yourself forms out there that don't seem to be particularly problematic (health care directives come to mind), so I'm skeptical of claims that only an attorney can prepare a legal document that will hold up in court. No disrespect intended to attorneys in general, and I realize that they have a high level of legal training that is necessary for the more complicated maneuvers in our lives (irrevocable/revocable trusts, for example). __________________ "You'd be surprised at how much it costs to look this cheap." -- Dolly Parton

11-20-2008, 12:27 PM	#1
roger r Dryer sheet aficionado Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 44	Do it yourself wills Are there any of you who have done your own wills, medical power of attorney, living will, etc. who would have suggestions and recommendations. I've run across a few simple forms on the web that seem helpful but would probably be interested in a good book that has some descriptions and help. I have some books on estate planning from the financial standpoint and am OK there. I mostly need to get the formal documents in place. Thanks!

11-20-2008, 12:42 PM	#3
M Paquette Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 112	Nolo Press has some good books and forms for this. Wills & Estate Planning - Resource Center Wills & Estate Planning - Resource Center I've used these myself. Of course, I don't know how well it will work out in my case... If nothing else, it will give you the background and details you'll need to fill in before visiting an attorney.

11-20-2008, 12:48 PM	#4
Life_is_Good Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 93	Disclaimer - I know nothing - don't hold me responsible for anything. Here's a link to DIY forms for every state... ILRG Legal Forms Archive - 2,000+ Free Legal Forms and Documents

11-20-2008, 01:12 PM	#8
Bestwifeever Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,228	I imagine a DIY will using NOLO's boilerplate is better than no will.

11-20-2008, 02:49 PM	#13
Geoffrey Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 54	I've been an attorney for nearly 30 years, practicing in government contracts. I would NOT try to draft my own will. Perhaps if I was single and my assets were very limited I might give it a try, but anyone who has a family and substantial assets would be well-advised to see a lawyer -- one who has prepared numerous wills before. A will may appear to be a simple instrument, but there a many traps for the unwary. IMHO, drafting your own will makes about as much sense as trying to perform surgery on yourself, aided of course by a do-it-yourself book.

11-20-2008, 05:04 PM	#18
Martha Administrator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 10,065	Why a conflict? He isn't looking for business here. What attorneys are able to do and are trained to do is think about all the bad things that can happen and how to avoid them. In fact, I just read that attorneys score far higher on pessimism than the average person. It is all that thinking about the worst case. Estate planning attorneys also have the training to figure out the best way to minimize taxes while still effecting your intentions and they can give you ideas you never thought about so you may change your intentions as part of the process. I know that we did. Some parts of the docs prepared are boilerplate or a choice among options. Other parts may be designed for you. But what you need and how to get there is the value added by the estate planner. That said, if you have minimal assets, don't have prior families, illegitimate children, unusual assets, etc.,etc., etc., and plan to leave your stuff to your spouse, and if your spouse is dead to your kids, then a respected kit may be fine. Keep in mind issues with assets that don't pass through a will, such as joint assets and assets with beneficiary designations. There may be consequences with these assets. Joint account with a child? Can a creditor of your child get the account? Do you know? What about putting your house in a life estate with your kids? What happens if the kids get divorced? Or have financial problems? Do you know? I also am a lawyer and did not do my own will. There were complications. Taxable estate. No children. Trust for disabled family members, and a few other issues. Mistakes are costly. And don't forget, the rules change and your situation changes so you need to revisit your estate plan regularly. __________________ . Do not rely on the information provided--my posts are not to be taken as legal advice. Needless to say you must consult with your legal representative. I am not responsible for errors. If I offended you with cya I apologize. If I did not, I tried. Last edited by Martha; 11-20-2008 at 05:10 PM..

11-20-2008, 05:12 PM	#19
Martha Administrator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 10,065	People can get themselves in odd binds. I just remembered a situation with some people I heard about. They opened accounts in their children's names and gifted the max into the accounts every year. The accounts had their adult children's social security numbers. The 1099 went to the parents address and was ignored. Someone had a big tax problem. Who? __________________ .