Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-03-2007, 09:03 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,139
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73ss454
NewGuy, I don't get. I've been reading your posts for about 8 months and you kept saying that you couldn't wait to retire. You were counting down weekly on the forum and seemed very happy when you retired a week or so ago. Now you seem to be happy that your back at work.

If working makes you happy by all means work. But I for one don't get it.
What 73 said. To each his own, but I would have darn sure taken a few weeks/months to decompress before I considered going back to work. I did...and had what might have been a panic attack when I made the mistake of sitting down and attempting to fill out a job application.

On the other hand, I think you said something about moving near your in-laws. That might explain it.

__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-03-2007, 10:34 PM   #22
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 886
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

My father FIRE'd at 58. He had "big" plans for his retirement. Outside one trip to Estonia, he stayed at home most the time puttering with jewelry making and with a few regional trips to see friends and family. He passed in his sleep of heart failure at 62, an otherwise healthy man. He was much more active before his retirement, and I tend to contribute his lack of activity to his early demise. Especially as family history has relatives living much longer. Just something to think about.
__________________

__________________

Trek is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 12:51 AM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferco
I've recently had very interesting conversations with retirees/elder folk. Many of those in this category went into retirement and after that last day of work did absolutely NOTHING. Of course they'd get up and take care of the mandatory "functions" etc. but nothing else. Many of them seem to have what I'd call subacute depression and seem to have over the years regressed mentally/ intellectually. I'm wondering if anyone has noticed this amongst some folks who've ER'd.
I frankly plan to FIRE later in 2007, but still do some of what I did when I worked for "a living", only on a "at will", optional level; this I believe will offer me the mental stimulation and the peace of mind in knowing on any given day, week, month, or year that I don't have to do it.
Satisfy yourself. That's what's important.

There's an attitude that gets expressed a lot on this board that any kind of work is repugnant and that those who work after "retirement" are not really retired. The implication is that if you get any kind of satisfaction from a job, then you are inferior. But it is an arbitrary value judgement to decide that interest in fishing, surfing, camping or golfing is acceptable but that interest in government, teaching, or writing is a job? It's not about money either. Many people have "hobbies" that generate income. What constitutes work? Is a volunteer activity work? What if the same activity could be done for pay? If you spend 20 hours as an election board member for $100, is that work -- or community service? If you spend several days counceling a troubled teen, is that work? What if the teen is a relative or neighbor? etc. . . Is it work if you teach? What if you are teaching surfing, fishing or golfing to someone?

I don't think a strict definition of "retired" or of what constitutes a "job" matters. Find a path that satisfies you. That path will be different for all of us. If some aspects of your career was satisfying then you will want to replace that in retirement. If that can be accomplished by performing a task for money, then do it. The money won't matter, but the satisfaction will.

For me, schedule requirements are the key difference between acceptable and unacceptable activities once I reached financial independance. Consulting was unacceptable because it always involved a client's timeframe -- not mine. Writing and reviewing are more "work" for less money, but I find these activities rewarding and I can do them on my schedule. My DW has found satisfaction from substitute teaching for much the same reason. She can choose to teach or not to teach on any day.

__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 06:55 AM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,119
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Like I had said its all about working when I want to, NOT working today. Going down to wilmington getting on a 45 foot deep sea fishing boat and heading for the gulf stream. I might sub teach sometime next week.

Yes I will be decompressing but the two days at those two schools on MY terms were a blast!
__________________
newguy88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 09:48 AM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 207
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Life is living at a huge Chinese buffet of infinite choices.

But a career is only being able to eat the same thing there, day after day, like it or not. You can LOOK at all the choices... then sigh and tuck into the same old, same old. :P

Retirement is being set free to taste ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING that appeals to you (as long as you can afford it of course).

This doesn't mean you can't snack on that old career plate. Just means you don't HAVE to anymore.

Tragic is the retiree that simply stops eating.
__________________
Can eat with either hand.
Joss is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 09:51 AM   #26
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Satisfy yourself. That's what's important.
There's an attitude that gets expressed a lot on this board that any kind of work is repugnant and that those who work after "retirement" are not really retired. It's not about money either. Many people have "hobbies" that generate income. What constitutes work? Is a volunteer activity work? What if the same activity could be done for pay? If you spend 20 hours as an election board member for $100, is that work -- or community service? If you spend several days counceling a troubled teen, is that work? What if the teen is a relative or neighbor? etc. . . Is it work if you teach? What if you are teaching surfing, fishing or golfing to someone?
I don't think a strict definition of "retired" or of what constitutes a "job" matters. Find a path that satisfies you. That path will be different for all of us. If some aspects of your career was satisfying then you will want to replace that in retirement. If that can be accomplished by performing a task for money, then do it. The money won't matter, but the satisfaction will.
I agree that people have to please themselves, but the first thing they need to consider is why they're doing an activity that involves a paycheck.

I think that many retirees work because they need the money, but they lie about it delude themselves by claiming that it's for personal satisfaction. I'm not sure that they're fooling anyone but themselves.

I think that many retirees work because they're retreating into a safe, well-regulated, externally-structured environment where they no longer have to be responsible for their own entertainment.

I think that many retirees work because they're bored and have no idea what do to with themselves. Like a Monty Python routine, they should be beaten over the head with paper copies of Ernie Zelinski's "Get A Life Tree".

Perhaps the key questions for any new paid activity should be:
- Would you still do it if you had to give the money to charity?
- Are you in a rut? How does this differ from the life you led when you were working for a living?
- Are you running away from boredom or an over-present spouse or some other problem that you don't want to tackle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Writing and reviewing are more "work" for less money, but I find these activities rewarding and I can do them on my schedule.
Here's a question based on my ignorance, inexperience, and genuine curiosity-- how does your editor feel about that "my schedule" comment?
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 11:13 AM   #27
Full time employment: Posting here.
Retire Soon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 655
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Thanks for the story Cut Throat, I think there is a lot of truth to it. I've been retired now for over 6 months and don't know how, "I ever had time to work." In the back of my mind I keep reminding myself of what I read in one of the "how to retire..." books (I don't remember which one) that emphasized when one retires, you should let the first year go by without any major commitments. That is, just go with the flow for the first 12 months. Don't look for a part-time job, don't volunteer, don't look for new hobbies, but rather just appreciate your new found freedom. I've been doing exactly that and have enjoyed every minute of it. I figure that after the author's suggested year, I'll know what I really want to do with the rest of my life.

As far as "doing nothing in ER" is concerned, I've worked with many people who really didn't have a life. They had absolutely no life outside of work. Some would stay at the school until 9 o'clock in the evening and then even go back to their classrooms on Saturday and Sunday. I think these were very lonely people, who would not know what to do if they did not have a career. Their life was limited solely to teaching and they found satisfaction in little else. Many employed people may appear to be very challenged and busy, but at the same time are still regressing both mentally and intellectually, because they have no life outside of work. They would be totally lost without the structure and security of a job.
__________________
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately... and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."

--Henry David Thoreau
Retire Soon is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 11:41 AM   #28
Full time employment: Posting here.
flipstress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 537
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Satisfy yourself. That's what's important.
Wise words, sgeeeee. Are you a guru of some sort?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joss
Life is living at a huge Chinese buffet of infinite choices.

But a career is only being able to eat the same thing there, day after day, like it or not. You can LOOK at all the choices... then sigh and tuck into the same old, same old. :P

Retirement is being set free to taste ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING that appeals to you (as long as you can afford it of course).

This doesn't mean you can't snack on that old career plate. Just means you don't HAVE to anymore.

Tragic is the retiree that simply stops eating.
I love your metaphors, Joss. (I also love Chinese buffets.) BTW, welcome to the boards!

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
I agree that people have to please themselves, but the first thing they need to consider is why they're doing an activity that involves a paycheck...
Perhaps the key questions for any new paid activity should be:
- Would you still do it if you had to give the money to charity?
- Are you in a rut? How does this differ from the life you led when you were working for a living?
- Are you running away from boredom or an over-present spouse or some other problem that you don't want to tackle?
sgeeeee was asking the definition of work--this is work, Nords, and could be painful, too. But in retirement, one has more time for self-examination and any resulting redirection that one desires.
__________________
flipstress is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 12:21 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
I agree that people have to please themselves, but the first thing they need to consider is why they're doing an activity that involves a paycheck.
People don't need to do anything to meet your or my expectations. I don't care why folks choose to perform an activity for money. That choice is theirs to make. If they are happy, then they've made a good choice for them. Whether they can express an exact reason for that choice and their happiness isn't really important. I don't think most people can explain the reasons why their choices please them to the satisfaction of others. You could probably write 100 pages about why you enjoy surfing and I doubt that it would appeal to me at all. CT could write that much about fishing (although I doubt he would because he would rather be fishing) and yet I have no interest. They are good choices for you, though.

Quote:
I think that many retirees work because they need the money, but they lie about it delude themselves by claiming that it's for personal satisfaction. I'm not sure that they're fooling anyone but themselves.

I think that many retirees work because they're retreating into a safe, well-regulated, externally-structured environment where they no longer have to be responsible for their own entertainment.

I think that many retirees work because they're bored and have no idea what do to with themselves. Like a Monty Python routine, they should be beaten over the head with paper copies of Ernie Zelinski's "Get A Life Tree".
Wow. You apparently know more about the devious nature of some of our posters than I do. I don't know if we have posters deluding themselves about why they choose to work any more than I know if we have posters deluding themselves about why they don't. I suspect human nature implies we have some of both. I'm not sure why that matters to anyone but them.

Quote:
Perhaps the key questions for any new paid activity should be:
- Would you still do it if you had to give the money to charity?
- Are you in a rut? How does this differ from the life you led when you were working for a living?
- Are you running away from boredom or an over-present spouse or some other problem that you don't want to tackle?
I'm not really interested in applying a test to other's motives. I think you could ask the last two questions about any of our poster's hobbies or passions.

Quote:
Here's a question based on my ignorance, inexperience, and genuine curiosity-- how does your editor feel about that "my schedule" comment?
I have a good relationship with several publishers. Since I have a track record of providing them content and understand the required role of an author/editor, they have accepted "my schedule". I am seldom out of email contact with my publishers (maybe 5 or 6 weeks a year) and I let them know when I will be out of electronic communication. I give them honest status reports if I'm developing a book or article and let them know that any projections of completed tasks is based on "nothing better to do" coming along.

Most authors are notorious for delayed submissions and unresponsiveness. This drives publishers crazy. They can't effectively schedule production and marketing and when authors get behind, they tend to ignore correspondance rather than admit they haven't been working on the project. The publishers I work with tell me that they are very satisfied with "my schedule" and are happy to work with me.

By the way, there is no significant money to be made in publishing the kind of specialized stuff that I have authored/edited. A great selling technical expert's book sells several thousand copies over a period of 2 or 3 years. Royalties run 10% to 15% (depending on the details of the contract). You do the math. Most writers (even non-technical) would have trouble justifying their writing based on income. For every best-selling author, there must be thousands who are struggling to make it work.
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 01:56 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,290
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

My mother, who is 86 'retired' back in 1982 I believe....

But, she did volunteer work for awhile, but they lost their worker at various times and she did the same thing for pay off and on for a few years...

She did water aerobics for seniors... but got her 'card' or whatever and started to teach a class.. again, got paid... but about 3 years ago was 'laid off' as they closed down the pool she worked.... Now, she has to drive farther to another club, but still does her water aerobics three times a week...

So, you can get paid for doing something you would be doing anyhow... is that "work"
__________________
Texas Proud is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 02:05 PM   #31
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
People don't need to do anything to meet your or my expectations.
Sorry, didn't mean to poke a nerve or wirebrush any sensitive appendages... IMO you don't need to feel that way!

Would it make you feel better if I expressed my opinion as "should" instead of "need"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Wow. You apparently know more about the devious nature of some of our posters than I do. I don't know if we have posters deluding themselves about why they choose to work any more than I know if we have posters deluding themselves about why they don't. I suspect human nature implies we have some of both. I'm not sure why that matters to anyone but them.
As a matter of fact I do, although I was referring to people in general and not any of our posters in particular. Hey, people "should" examine their motives for their own edification, and it's not any of our business. But I'm skeptical when I read about the "unfulfilled" retirees profiled in financial & business magazines.

Thanks for answering my curiosity about editors & publishers.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 05:08 PM   #32
Recycles dryer sheets
LeatherneckPA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Williamsport
Posts: 489
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

My 2 cents on this one,,,,,

I happen to ride two different (really different) motorcycles. One is a full dresser Harley and the other is a Suzuki on/off road screamer. Each group that I ride with is always asking a guy like me wound up with the other crowd. My answer is "It matters not what you ride, only that you ride."

In ER speak, "It matters not if others think you are retired, only that you think you are retired."
__________________
"Iron" Mike - Semper Fi
Jack of all trades; Master of none.
LeatherneckPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 05:21 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipstress
Wise words, sgeeeee. Are you a guru of some sort?
. . .
Shhhhhhh. I've morphed twice since those days.

I have been posting on this board for a long time under various names. I've seen a lot of posters come and go. It must be a sign that I am learning impaired that I haven't graduated myself.
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 05:22 PM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
. . . Thanks for answering my curiosity about editors & publishers.
You're welcome.
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 06:34 PM   #35
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 64
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

When I tell people that I ER'ed, a fair number of them say something like, "Man, I could never be happy doing nothing.".

This always stumps me. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt as to their intelligence. When they say such a dumb thing, I have to re-consider where to put them.

Maybe there are people who really wouldn't do anything, but I have a hard time conceiving it. There is so much interesting stuff to do! Especially when you are young and healthy enough to get around.

For instance, I interviewed for a high school tennis coach position today.

__________________
lifeisgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 06:45 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Retirement isn't for everybody.

My FIL is 70 and waaay FI. His kids and wife are riding him to retire so they can spend more time traveling. He owns a restaurant with his partner, and he has a buyout offer on the table.

The restaurant gives him a vibrant social life. As the owner, it gives him cachet in his community. It keeps him busy and engaged. It's a low stress gig. So, he sees retirement as a losing proposition. I suggested that he might hire a manager so that he has more ownership over his schedule, and forget about retirement.
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-04-2007, 07:00 PM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,649
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
Retirement isn't for everybody.

My FIL is 70 and waaay FI. His kids and wife are riding him to retire so they can spend more time traveling. He owns a restaurant with his partner, and he has a buyout offer on the table.

The restaurant gives him a vibrant social life. As the owner, it gives him cachet in his community. It keeps him busy and engaged. It's a low stress gig. So, he sees retirement as a losing proposition. I suggested that he might hire a manager so that he has more ownership over his schedule, and forget about retirement.
Probably a good suggestion. Popular restaurant owners often go down with the ship -- they love the life. A couple of weeks back I saw Duke Ziebert, a famous DC restaurant personality and previous owner of the restaurant with his name, serving as a maitre dei at a McCormick and Schmidt's down the street from his former place. He just wasn't happy unles he was greeting customers by name.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-05-2007, 05:35 AM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,119
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeisgood
When I tell people that I ER'ed, a fair number of them say something like, "Man, I could never be happy doing nothing.".

This always stumps me. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt as to their intelligence. When they say such a dumb thing, I have to re-consider where to put them.

Maybe there are people who really wouldn't do anything, but I have a hard time conceiving it. There is so much interesting stuff to do! Especially when you are young and healthy enough to get around.

For instance, I interviewed for a high school tennis coach position today.

Yes but some here as stated earlier in the thread say we should do nothing for a period of time. I packed it in only a week ago and will sign to be a varsity track coach for the spring today! Nothing wild a couple of hours a day for 2and 1/2 months. Something that I LOVE!!

Sub teaching on my terms, and yes quite frankly having an additional 1400 a month during my transition is well helpful, since my first pension check and my buyout on sick time may not be paid until march.
__________________
newguy88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-05-2007, 12:42 PM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
lazygood4nothinbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

did somebody mention doing nothing? because i'm very good at that. i can sit for hours in an empty, whitewashed room with no windows and be thoroughly entertained. i'm not sure if maybe the meaning of the word has changed but i constantly hear people tell me how bored they are. i don't believe i've ever known a moment's boredom in my life.

if i have any regret about doing nothing in er it is that i have no one to do nothing with. so i will force myself to do something. i might even have to meet someone new who enjoys doing nothing as much as i do. i can see it already: i am going to have to bore myself with travel and adventure.

www.idler.co.uk/forum
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
lazygood4nothinbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Doing Nothing in ER
Old 01-05-2007, 01:59 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 5,739
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Re: Doing Nothing in ER

There are four spheres of involvement in which we all engage:
Family
Community
Work
Profession

Many people lack a strong balance across the four spheres and rely on work for their identity. The comments about restauranteurs is particularly relevant because the successful ones I know ignore the first two spheres and focus exclusively on the third one.

A good example of a great transition is Professor Emeritus - simply a shift from sphere 3 to sphere 4. No more pay except for the pension but still listed in the faculty and with ongoing privileges.
__________________

__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:58 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.