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"El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-08-2006, 01:05 PM   #1
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"El Sandino" Returns

As many have likely noticed Nicaragua has also had a recent election. This election was also won by a candidate to the left of the incumbent.

The great statesman and destroyer of private property, Daniel Ortega.

He was not expected to win; in fact his victory was way less than a majority. Still, the other guys split the more conservative voters, and Ortega is back.

My take- if you like Latin America, especially the parts with lots of poverty, go on down. But consider renting.

Myself, the mere sight of a banana tree causes nausea.

Ha
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-08-2006, 01:17 PM   #2
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

I guess Rumsfeld won't be retiring there, huh :

And hopefully Bush will be too busy making rapprochement with his new colleagues to embark on any Iran-Contra redux (don't tell him that Ollie North is already down there to influence the election visit friends).
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-09-2006, 12:15 AM   #3
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

Whats the deal? Every thread I run into seems to have a Rumsfeld/Bush jab. These boards are shooting more political rather and a retirement discussion forum. It wouldnt hurt to make a whole new section. Bash the government here...
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-09-2006, 07:05 AM   #4
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwsinron
Whats the deal? Every thread I run into seems to have a Rumsfeld/Bush jab. These boards are shooting more political rather and a retirement discussion forum. It wouldnt hurt to make a whole new section. Bash the government here...
Duh. Do you read the news? This is on people's minds. Relax, it will cool off in a bit and the jabs will switch from Bush/Rummy to the ineffective dem majority
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-09-2006, 07:36 AM   #5
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

Sorry about swinging at the fat pitch. For many of us over 50, Daniel Ortega, Oliver North, and the Iran-Contra affair are our major associations with the country of Nicaragua. If Reagan had been a lesser politician--or a less popular one, it might easily have brought his administration down. I'll never forget his speech where he defended his actions, saying something like, "In my mind, this wasn't an arms-for-hostages deal."

BTW, joking that Rumsfeld won't retire to Nicaragua is as much a slam against the Communist-turned-Socialist Ortega as against the (presumably) war-weary Rumsfled.
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-09-2006, 11:34 AM   #6
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

Our entwinement with Nicaragua goes back a very long time- I think Marines first were sent there to stay before the beginning of WW1. That was in the days when the officers were good, and a few thousand Marines could materially change the course of an entire country. It was often seen as unwarranted interference on our part, but in many cases it rally made life possible for the peasants who were being brutally oppressed by local warlords and politicians. Miguel Cesar Augusto Sandino won an election in 1924, and the Marines were sent again, or more properly I believe a small garrison already there was reinforced. Sandino was a skilled and merciless leader, and fought the marines more or less to a standstill. Finally using stealth and trickery, another name from the past came on the scene- Anastasio Somoza. He managed to assassinate Sandino, and the US Marines came home.

Interestingly, in 1979 when the revolutionary forces got going and became to be known as Sandinistas (after General Sandino) they threw out the Somoza dynasty, and held elections which produced a victory by Daniel Ortega. Followed by our backing of the Contras, etc., etc.

Now the worm has turned once more. We shall see what happens this time, but I for one don't hold much hope.

I am glad I did not succumb to the blandishments of International Living to come down to beautiful Managua.

The only beauty I have ever seen from Nicaragua is Bianca, and a gorgeous Nicaraguan lab instructor from my college botany class. She thrilled us both on rainy November mornings when she leaned hard into my back to check if I had put the pointer on the right organ in my microscope’s specimen. I needed a lot of help.

Ha
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-09-2006, 12:03 PM   #7
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Our entwinement with Nicaragua goes back a very long time- I think Marines first were sent there to stay before the beginning of WW1.
Vanderbilt, of all people, had a Nicaraguan canal (of sorts) operating there long before the Panama Canal. That type of geography (and financial opportunity) meant that the Marines were just one unit in a long line of U.S. interventions there-- although it's a little hard to find unbiased sources, here's one of the presumably less biased summaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
That was in the days when the officers were good...
So whaddya trying to say? I don't think any of the armed forces have had a particularly even record, let alone a monopoly, of producing exceptionally good or exceptionally bad officers. I think the Marines have produced more than their fair share of quotable ones, though.
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-09-2006, 12:46 PM   #8
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

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So whaddya trying to say?
Only that the early 20th century marine expeditionary forces sure got a lot done with few men and few casualties, on the cheap to boot.

Of course they might have been helped by the slow communications from Washington back then. Get in there, get 'er done, and confer with Washington later.

Ha
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-09-2006, 12:52 PM   #9
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Only that the early 20th century marine expeditionary forces sure got a lot done with few men and few casualties, on the cheap to boot.
I think your Nicaragua analogy contrasts poorly with USMC "experience" in Haiti, China, the Philippines, and France. Then there's the example set by the Army chasing Pancho Villa around Mexico.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Of course they might have been helped by the slow communications from Washington back then. Get in there, get 'er done, and confer with Washington later.
Can't argue with that!
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-09-2006, 08:29 PM   #10
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

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Then there's the example set by the Army chasing Pancho Villa around Mexico.
Well, I think ol' Black Jack and his officers learned a lot that might have helped them a few years later in Europe.

And don't disrespect my boyhood hero Chesty Puller. IMO he did very well in Haiti, a horrrible place then as now.

Ha
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-22-2006, 07:31 AM   #11
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

Nicaragua was never on my list. We have shirt-tail relatives who have a long relationship with the country and none of them ever recommended it, even when thinigs were looking better. There seems to be a lot of gringos speculating in real estate there these days, though.
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-22-2006, 09:46 AM   #12
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa

Of course they might have been helped by the slow communications from Washington back then. Get in there, get 'er done, and confer with Washington later.

Ha
I took a course covering the impact of technology on US military culture. One of the most interesting lectures was on the strong resistance within the USN (and other navies, I imagine) to the introduction of long-range radio communication. It fundamentally stripped all command autonomy from task force leadership, and naval leaders recognized and fought it hard. But, technology and the quest to touchl everything with the famous 10,000 mile screwdriver won out.

Now we have USAF transport pilots in Africa requesting permission from Illinois before engaging reverse thrust to back up on the ramp. Sad.

The authority of Ambassadors has been similarly eviscerated.
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns
Old 11-22-2006, 09:49 AM   #13
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Re: "El Sandino" Returns

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It fundamentally stripped all command autonomy from task force leadership, and naval leaders recognized and fought it hard. But, technology and the quest to touchl everything with the famous 10,000 mile screwdriver won out.
I think long-range communications caught on when crews realized that they could have the passenger vans & other amenities waiting on the pier at the next liberty port.

Oh, yeah, plus spare parts & fresh groceries too.

Submariners largely gave up the "Silent Service" moniker when Cold War funding dried up...
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