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Re: ER WITH KIDS??
Old 12-06-2004, 02:44 PM   #21
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??

I'm interested to see some very early retirees (30s early 40s) supporting several kids. I can see one. One kid doesn't cost that much, but 2-3-4 kids with no income? How do you pull that off? Are you practicing Daczyczyn style frugality, have you managed to pull together enough change to support a full family, or are you relying on outside support (pension, etc)?

One of the things that I would be concerned about is the development of my children's attitude towards work. I have known a few dads in my day that were 'bums,' and I don't think that it was healthy for their kids. I don't want my kids to have the expectation that work is something only other people do, or that they will be able to get away with working for only ten or fifteen years in their life.
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??
Old 12-06-2004, 03:08 PM   #22
 
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??

I have 3 children (all grown now). When I was
working, I lavished money on my kids and wife.
Seemed natural at the time. Once I saw the ER light,
I shed the wife (high maintenance) and did not
think the kids would be a problem. Alas, the youngest,
having been born with a silver spoon, continues to
plague my ER plans. I had hoped that as an adult,
we could discuss this stuff maturely. I failed to
see how ingrained the "I want it so Dad will pay"
had become. Too bad really, but I created the monster.

JG
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It's not as hard as it's made to look.
Old 12-06-2004, 11:30 PM   #23
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It's not as hard as it's made to look.

Quote:
I'm interested to see some very early retirees (30s early 40s) supporting several kids. *I can see one. *One kid doesn't cost that much, but 2-3-4 kids with no income? *How do you pull that off? *Are you practicing Daczyczyn style frugality, have you managed to pull together enough change to support a full family, or are you relying on outside support (pension, etc)?
I retired in 2002 (a bit before 42) after a 20-year career. *Spouse was a couple years behind that and has been working PT ($10-15K) until next year. *We have a trophy 12-year-old.

Two kids are probably twice as expensive as one, but it's less than linear after that. *Daczyczyn-style frugality works fine (how many kids did they have-- four? *five?) but you can also get group discounts and skip the really expensive material possessions. *

MSN.com has estimated child-raising expenses at $150K-$250K. *Private colleges in 2010 are estimated to be as much as $200K. *That's one answer right there, especially if you qualify for academic/sports scholarships, work/study programs, and student loans. *I grew up with a friend whose siblings (total of nine) could go to Penn State on the discounted-tuition group plan (the parents were paying) or pay their own way anywhere else. *I think 8/9 went for the subsidy.

Quote:
One of the things that I would be concerned about is the development of my children's attitude towards work. *I have known a few dads in my day that were 'bums,' and I don't think that it was healthy for their kids. *I don't want my kids to have the expectation that work is something only other people do, or that they will be able to get away with working for only ten or fifteen years in their life.
Hey, I'm the hardest working surf bum I know. *My kid would probably trade places with yours in a heartbeat because the "problem" is that I'm always around to help-- or to supervise.

Our kid has move up from "take care of me" to "spend time with me" to "be available for me", and ER supports all those stay-at-home parenting goals. *No matter how much the kid may complain, extensive parental contact has to be healthier for the family than spending 50+ hours/week at a $100K/year job (although the income would probably pay a lot of therapy bills). *

I tell my kid that I hope she finds a job that she loves as much as I did (for the first decade). *If she finds that then a "good work attitude" will follow. *I tell her that if family or something else becomes more important than career then I hope she's been saving & investing so that she has choices! *She knows how to "get away with" only working 20 years before ER but she's not too keen on joining the military. *OTOH veterinarians are the #5-ranked occupation in "Millionaire Women Next Door", so if she keeps going down that road we won't be worried.

Of course there's setting a good example and then there's foolish. *I don't drive the surfmobile up the road until the school bus has been through.

Consider another aspect of raising kids-- Jarhead's teenage daughter was totally oblivious to the good example her father was trying to set for her because she had enough challenges just getting through the teen years. *Our kids may appreciate what we've done when they're in their 20s, but I don't expect mine to notice before then. *And I won't expect any thank-yous until she's coping with kids of her own!
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??
Old 12-07-2004, 03:41 AM   #24
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??

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Has anyone ER'd with kids? *I have two boys, 5 and 7, and I'd like to quit so I can spend more time with them and watch them grow up. *I feel like I've missed almost all of the kid experience so far due to work.

Anyone travel with kids for extended periods

billystu

Yes and Yes. I Er'ed in 2001 at 38 with 3 small kids...now I have 4 small kids (see what happens when you hang around the house too much ).

My kids are 8/5/4/2 and were a big motivation for my Er'ing. At 38, with 40-50 or more years of retirement to fund, unless you are mega-wealthy, you plan the best you can and hope the money lasts...but I figure in 20 years or so, the kids will all be grown, I'll have a pretty darn good idea of spending needs and if I miscalculated somehow (or all my assumptions about returns were wrong), and I need to pick up a part-time job to fill the gap...so be it. I'll also have a better idea of what SS holds for me as I get close to "real" retirement age.

I know I will never regret spending all the extra time at home with my kids. Why waste retirement on old folks?

As far as travelling with kids. I kicked off my retirement with a 2 month trip to a tropical island. IMO, its actually easier to travel for longer periods of time with small kids. Its the actual travelling thats hard on everyone...once you are there, kids just settle into a new routine and things are fine...but on the first day, 14 or so hours into my day that starts at 2:30AM, when all the kids are cranky and exhausted you start to wonder why you did such a crazy thing...BUT, you wake up refreshed at your destination and enjoy the rest of the vacation...until the trip home.

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Re: ER WITH KIDS??
Old 12-07-2004, 06:51 AM   #25
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??

Here's an interesting site:

www.road-school.com

Quote:
One of the things that I would be concerned about is the development of my children's attitude towards work.
I read something recently that mentioned this and the take was if you're working in a job you hate and your kids know that (let's face it, they are very intuitive about M/D moods, they've been reading them all their lives)they get the impression that work is bad and somethig to hate, try to get out of, cause for stress, etc. If you worked, enjoyed it, saved intelligently and were able to ER and then went on to do things you love and have time to help others, what better message could you give young children.

Judy

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Re: ER WITH KIDS??
Old 12-07-2004, 08:00 AM   #26
 
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??

I have no idea how my attitude toward work
influenced my kids. I can't see any workaholic tendencies nor any corporate ladder climbing in any of them.
The oldest got his degree at age 38 and works for
the USDA (outdoorsy type). The second is a stay
at home mom raising my 4 grandchildren.
The youngest is about done with college and I have no idea where she might end up. She does need to get over having everything handed to her on a platter.
The building up of that attitude was my fault.

JG
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Re: It's not as hard as it's made to look.
Old 12-07-2004, 11:03 AM   #27
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Re: It's not as hard as it's made to look.

I
Quote:


Consider another aspect of raising kids-- Jarhead's teenage daughter was totally oblivious to the good example her father was trying to set for her because she had enough challenges just getting through the teen years. *Our kids may appreciate what we've done when they're in their 20s, but I don't expect mine to notice before then. *And I won't expect any thank-yous until she's coping with kids of her own!
Nords: Exactly. But don't neccessarily expect thank yous at any age ;)
Proving once again we get too soon old, and too late smart.
In my opinion, I think most parents have an over-inflated attitude about how much effect they have on their kids, regarding home school, public school, etc.
My wife was reading me an article the other day that said most childrens basic character was set at less than 5 years old. In retrospect, it makes sense.
It may make you as a parent feel like you've given your child every possible advantage, and in the process feel good about yourself, but when society gets hold of them
it's a crap=shoot.
As I mentioned before, my dad was a Logger, with a large family to take care of, and I was the oldest in the family. When I left to join the Marine Corps. at 17, the only advice I remember getting from him (Other than don't let the door hit you in the -ss on the way out, was never ever play cards with a guy named after a city.
My brothers and sisters all held him in the highest esteem until he died. He took care of his family, never abused my mother, or us.
We all did o.k. in life, and the jury is still out on the current "all about the kids" attitude. (My wife and I certainly fell into that category).
You puts up your money, and takes your chances.
Regards, Jarhead

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Re: It's not as hard as it's made to look.
Old 12-07-2004, 11:25 AM   #28
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Re: It's not as hard as it's made to look.

Quote:
My wife was reading me an article the other day that said most childrens basic character was set at less than 5 years old.
I think character is established before then. * My guess would be that genes account for about 80%, environment before the age of 3 about 15%, and the rest accounts for about 5% of character.

My 21-month old daughter is cute, smart, funny, curious, goal-driven, and she can dance. * I figure my work is done *:)
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Re: It's not as hard as it's made to look.
Old 12-11-2004, 06:42 AM   #29
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Re: It's not as hard as it's made to look.

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My 21-month old daughter is cute, smart, funny, curious, goal-driven, and she can dance. * I figure my work is done *:)
Wab: Doesn't surprise me, in fact except for the dance part from I've been able to tell from your posts, that's the way I picture you. Computer guy and dance seems like a stretch.
A couple of years ago, saw a special, kind of a day in the life of Bill Gates.
They televised a segment showing him and his computer buddies playing golf. (Not a pretty sight) ;)
The last part of the program showed all of them at a dance. Sammy Davis would turn over in his grave ;)
Your wife probably has a great sense of rythem ;)
Regards, Jarhead

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Re: It's not as hard as it's made to look.
Old 12-11-2004, 09:09 AM   #30
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Re: It's not as hard as it's made to look.

Quote:
Wab: Doesn't surprise me, in fact except for the dance part from I've been able to tell from your posts, that's the way I picture you. Computer guy and dance seems like a stretch.
Come on computer guys can dance! Just look at Microsoft CEO Steve Balmer go at it. Perhaps Wab dances like him?

http://www.tarmo.fi/arc/monkeydance.mpeg

and

http://www.tarmo.fi/arc/developers.mpeg
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??
Old 12-13-2004, 03:33 PM   #31
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Re: ER WITH KIDS??

Bong2 wrote:

One of the things that I would be concerned about is the development of my children's attitude towards work. I have known a few dads in my day that were 'bums,' and I don't think that it was healthy for their kids. I don't want my kids to have the expectation that work is something only other people do, or that they will be able to get away with working for only ten or fifteen years in their life.


RE: my previous post. Yes I've had that concern in the past regarding my kids attitudes toward work and that most Dad's go to an office. My are still quite young (8 and 6) but I tell them that while I'm fortunate to be able to stay home while most Dad's go to an office, I tell then that just about anything I do that is not directly related to the household and their activities is Dad's work. That includes telling them that I need to go to work even though I'm going to contunuing ed classes, or working on the books of a non-profit at home is still work (but really it is for no pay and a few privileges). For the kids, I use a very broad definition of work.

Of course, for me, I work seasonally doing tax returns, so come December through April, I even get paid!!

RE2Boys
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