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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-01-2006, 03:27 PM   #21
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Re: FI on the down low???

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Originally Posted by Martha
Manly men that they are, I am sure that they can take it.* But I do think that male ERs are going to get on the average more questions about their status than female ERs.*

Funny. Speaking of manly men, I just happened across this:

"Somebody said (or if no one did, I will) that women are realists pretending to be romantics, and men, romantics pretending to be realists. Yes. The male desire is to explore, to fly higher and higher, to invent and dare and go and see. The Apollo landings were not inspired by a desire to know the nature of lunar rocks. A man does not get on a rice-burning crotch-rocket on a desert road in Arizona and scream through the hot vastness, wap-wap-wap through the gears, 95, 105, 120…125 (go baby, get it on, do it for me), because it is particularly practical. It is the sheer glory of the thing, the speed and power, controlled but on the edge.

And now he wakes at five-thirty for the two-hour commute from Fredericksburg to Washington in crawling traffic, then to his cubicle at Agriculture where he tracks soybean yields in North Carolina. For his entire life.

It is not what men are wired to do. We just do not domesticate well. While male behavior is perhaps no more inherently absurd than female, it has little application to the suburbs and bureaucratic salt mines."

http://www.fredoneverything.net/SurvivalSchools.shtml


No offense, Greg, but I think I like Fred's writing better than tales of Rothbard.
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-01-2006, 03:32 PM   #22
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Re: FI on the down low???

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
There are good reasons why talking about money is generally taboo socially.
so much for taboo. it never made any sense to me.

sex, money, god.

but for maybe the androgynous, our sex is rather right out there. yet we are made to feel ashamed, to have to hide it. still not real safe for men to hold hands in public, but at least women here are not required veils.

money is just below the surface, in our pockets, but also above the surface, in our transactions. yet we should keep that far from view? it's only ok to flash a fancy car if you bought on credit, but if you actually have cash, run & hide.

god, i would think, would be held closest to the heart, yet is the first thing society throws in your face.

that we should be made to hide our most outward selves yet flaunt our most personal of relationships, how twisted is that?
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-01-2006, 03:39 PM   #23
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Re: FI on the down low???

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
No offense, Greg, but I think I like Fred's writing better than tales of Rothbard.
Greg,

Don't let brewer's panning of your literary efforts get you down. I was delighted to see the latest episode of “The Adventures of Gweneth and Rothbard” appear unexpectedly on the forum today. You must know by now I’m one of your biggest fans (actually I’m not all that large…) and I must say I was greatly relieved that Tumescent, the evil step-brother, did not appear in episode three as you had previously indicated. Even though his name might indicate otherwise, somehow I don’t think he’s a stand-up kind of a guy. :

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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-01-2006, 03:58 PM   #24
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Re: FI on the down low???

I agree that nothing separates the friends from the acquaintances like ER. And if those in-laws keep bringing up the topic then I guess the only other option is the "Miss Manners" approach-- stare silently for a second or two and then change the subject.

For a couple of years-- the really fun ones of 2002-3-- my FIL seemed pretty convinced that "we crazy kids" were going to put his only granddaughter in bankruptcy. Today he's resting easier and he can even calmly discuss $200 swings in the share value of Berkshire Hathaway. But I've learned not to discuss shorting stocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorklady
While you do not lie it is a bit harder for someone my age to get away with this, though I really am to blame for being so naive and loud mouthed, I was just so excited and happy for myself.
What age are you referring to? I ER'd at age 41 nearly four years ago...
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-01-2006, 07:19 PM   #25
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Re: FI on the down low???

Nords I am 30 now, and the problem and blessing came about a few years back.
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-02-2006, 09:22 AM   #26
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Re: FI on the down low???

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Originally Posted by newyorklady
I really am to blame for being so naive and loud mouthed, I was just so excited and happy for myself.*
Yep.* A lesson for all.* It's hard to not want to talk about plans successfully coming to fruition.* But when money is concerned, better to keep it to yourself!* I learned the hard way too!
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-02-2006, 09:46 AM   #27
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Re: FI on the down low???

The question I'm getting really tired of after only two months as an ER is "Are you getting bored yet?" I am, but it's really only with the question. I got rid of boredom when I retired from my boring job.

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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-02-2006, 01:08 PM   #28
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Re: FI on the down low???

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Originally Posted by setab
The question I'm getting really tired of after only two months as an ER is "Are you getting bored yet?"
Four years and I'm still getting it.

I reassure the person that being bored with their question doesn't indicate that I'm bored with talking to them...
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-02-2006, 02:18 PM   #29
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Re: FI on the down low???

Quote:
Originally Posted by setab
The question I'm getting really tired of after only two months as an ER is "Are you getting bored yet?"* I am, but it's really only with the question.* I got rid of boredom when I retired from my boring job.

setab
Yeah - why exactly are some people convinced that our lives must be horribly boring?!?!?!?

I just don't get it.

Oh well - I have much better things to do than enlighten such folks.....

Audrey
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-02-2006, 06:59 PM   #30
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Re: FI on the down low???

Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorklady
Nords I am 30 now, and the problem and blessing came about a few years back.*
Wow newyork lady....how did you do this?
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-02-2006, 07:54 PM   #31
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Re: FI on the down low???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Four years and I'm still getting it.

I reassure the person that being bored with their question doesn't indicate that I'm bored with talking to them...
Nords: When that question changes to "You aren't still working are you?", your current "problem" will be a fond memory.

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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-02-2006, 07:59 PM   #32
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Re: FI on the down low???

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Originally Posted by Jarhead*
Nords: When that question changes to "You aren't still working are you?", your current "problem" will be a fond memory.
Jarhead: I suspect Nords is afraid by the time his problem is a fond memory, his memory will also be a fond memory.

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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-03-2006, 09:08 AM   #33
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Re: FI on the down low???

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Jarhead: I suspect Nords is afraid by the time his problem is a fond memory, his memory will also be a fond memory.
I can't seem to remember why I spend so much time on this board. Oh I know, I am trying to remember why I am not working anymore.
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-04-2006, 05:54 AM   #34
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Re: FI on the down low???

I think I will just recycle a previous answer of mine: :
Was again thinking the above question through and while some proudly will yell to the world "I am retired!" I would not feel comfortable doing so still being in my 30ties. Call me old fashioned :grin:.

I would probably try to work a bit with offshore investments - with some good friends I have in that biz. I would make it clear that it would be commissions only and on my own schedule - and it would give me the reply to say that am am a financial advisor. For most people on the planet one will get the same reaction as if saying one is a banker :lol: . A blank stare and move on to the next subject.

The fact that I can do this biz anywhere (especially when advising myself!) makes things even easier, and with my 2 home bases (Thailand and Scandinavien home country) none of my friends in either place will expect me to work hard when I am THERE (thinking I must be more busy in the OTHER country).

Now; it is not just vanity towards friends and family and new people that drives this. More importantly; it is to ensure that I keep the profile of still working so I do not suddenly become an obvious target for abuse/loans/kidnappings/crime/more loans/never pay you back as you are rich/you buy all the drinks as you are rich Etc. attitude.

That could break some friendships through envy or greed and could also alinate the more conservative part of the family (trust me - they would NEVER understand - and instead be very nervous on my behalf) - besides the crime part.

Yes, it is sad that one has to do these hoops, but people are so programmed to work,work,work that I have decided not to use energy fighting such a losing battle: "what will you DO!?", "are you that lazy!?", "you have a great career!?", "it can not be done due to ......!"(fill out the blank with kids, salary level, education level or whatever), "don't you feel guilty!?" - ahh.. I could go on and on.

I previously had in my mind that I would convert more and more people into FIRE but have since learned that we are a VERY select few and that most others have mental blocks that will not allow the FIRE thought. Very often because it will impact their standard of living (above their means) now. Cheers!
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-04-2006, 08:44 AM   #35
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Re: FI on the down low???

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Originally Posted by ben
Was again thinking the above question through and while some proudly will yell to the world "I am retired!" I would not feel comfortable doing so still being in my 30ties. Call me old fashioned :grin:.
I didn't have your problem ERing in your thirties . Being in my late 50s, when necessary, I can easily mention that I have an imaginary small pension that I just get by on. I might even continue the illusion by pleading poverty when getting together with people for drinks, so if we ever meet up in BKK for "a" drink, you will understand if I only have one Chang but you are more than welcome to pick up my tab to help a poor, starving pensioneer jut trying to make ends meet at your expense.
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-04-2006, 09:45 AM   #36
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Re: FI on the down low???

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I think the humorous grief they get on this forum for their working wives isn't for simply having a working wife while they are not working. I think it's more for being labeled ER while DW still works. For example, if a woman stays home with children in lieu of a career, is she ER? We'd probably say no. It's a negative to not give a "housewife" credit for working in that role. But when a man stays home in the same situation, we might refer to him as ER. He probably doesn't want to be classified as a househusband.
I dont think of either a man or a woman as being an "ER" in the sense that we discuss it here if the other spouse works. That'd be nothing more than a 1-income family. My parents were a one-wage earner family too (dad worked, mom didn't) all of my childhood.

Either my wife or I could do that today, if we really wanted to. But that would only prove that both of us make enough to support our family on our own.

So in this case, you'd just say "so-and-so is the breadwinner" to answer why are you not working.
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-04-2006, 10:13 AM   #37
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Re: FI on the down low???

That's a perfectly acceptable definition to me Ananon. But, on this board, the definition of ER ranges widely. Stay at home spouses, part time workers, self-employed, misc escapees from corp cube farms now in different work, etc., are all considered ER by someone or another. But it's not really important. If you consider yourself retired from whatever you wanted to get retired from, then you're retired. I think CT mentioned that the achievement of FI is the real target. After that, whether you use your resources to stay at home and raise junior, work part time, do volunteer work or whatever, you're retired.
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-04-2006, 10:42 AM   #38
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Re: FI on the down low???

Well, i fully realize i'm only entitled to one opinion, but if someone like JG tells me he's retired or an "ER", but then reveals his wife works, i just think of both of them as having one wage earner, and give him no "credit" so to speak, for the other person being an ER.* I simply think of him/her as just someone that doesn't work for wages.*

My 2 year old son doesn't work either.* You say so?* That's exactly what i think about someone who's staying at home with a spouse who works.* He doesnt work for many reasons, one of them being because I do that for him.

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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-04-2006, 11:18 AM   #39
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Re: FI on the down low???

Well, I agree that quitting my job was not quite as gut wrenching due to the fact that DH is still working (and has health/dental ins, etc) but it was a BIG step in my life. I had gone through so much schooling and worked very long hours so deciding to leave that identity and become a non-working spouse was a big transition. Everyone knows about me, I didn't hide it.

As to whether I'm an ER... I still have to deal with the questions about what I do and am I going back etc. Also, some family members probably think I'm crazy for giving up my job to move for DH's career. Little do they know that he will be quitting soon too (and the move helped enable that) we ARE keeping his plans on the downlow since, as mentioned earlier, it is just harder to explain to society when you are a guy.

We won't keep it a secret forever. Maybe a year, once DH is used to the idea I think we will tell people that we are taking a few years off to travel while we are young (they don't need to know that we don't intend to go back)
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Re: FI on the down low???
Old 05-04-2006, 11:28 AM   #40
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Re: FI on the down low???

Azanon,

Again, no problem at all with your definition.

There are an infinite number of examples of people who consider themselved retired, but where someone else would question whether they really are retired. Someone retired but with a working spouse. Some retired but managing his/her fleet of rental properties. Someone retired but doing 40+ hours of volunteer work a week. Someone retired but working in a low stress career they always wanted to try. Etc., etc. Some seem like oxymorons. I just don't worry about it anymore. FI is the real issue. FI that gives you the choice to do any of the above and consider yourself retired or not.

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