FI on the down low???

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vagabond In a friendly conversation, my younger brother called me a freeloader. I ask; why are you calling me that, he answers; you are living off of society, I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you no longer contribute to society I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you are not spending much of your money. After about 5 minutes of back and forth dialogue, I said, oh, ok.*

Vagabond - you mean that he thinks you would be spending a lot more if you were working? And we all have a "duty" to spend a lot - and work so that we can spend more than if we weren't working?

Audrey

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorklady i am retired but my money is not.

Same here, but I guess its a fine line.

Since I do all our home maintenance, day care, yard work and car maintenance, pick everything up myself instead of having it delivered, cook all the meals and clean the house, i've replaced our former handymen, repair people, delivery people, cleaners and gardeners. Probably 5-10k a year in costs not including the meals, maybe another 5-7k a year in meals out that we dont eat? Another 5-10k a year in day care?

Most working couples carry a mortgage and car payments, for sake of argument thats an average of a couple of grand a year after taxes? I paid off the mortgage and cars from my pre-marriage funds.

So whats that...35-40k a year after taxes of "cost avoidance" I've created? 40-47k a year including meals? 45-57k including day care? Or just go with that recent study that said $133k a year, and that didnt include all the maintenance and repair stuff...

Remove my wife and her income from the equation, i'm still FI and have a viable retirement plan, as I did before we got married. Our portfolio, most which I brought into the marriage, has an income generating capability of about 90k a year.

Most of her income goes into 403b's and roths, although the residual pays the monthly utility and food bills.

Am I FIRE'd or am I the stay at home parent portion of a one income family?

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vagabond In a friendly conversation, my younger brother called me a freeloader. I ask; why are you calling me that, he answers; you are living off of society, I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you no longer contribute to society I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you are not spending much of your money. After about 5 minutes of back and forth dialogue, I said, oh, ok.*

Are you related to Ted?

Now get out there and spend!!* While you're at it, please spend my share of the burden, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny Am I FIRE'd or am I the stay at home parent portion of a one income family?

Perhaps you're just a financial planner who offers free childcare?

[Cattusbabe]

I don’t know. When my husband and I married up six years ago. (My first, his third) we decided that everything was going into one pot and that was that. It was ours. Period. At the time my assets, income and prospects were better than his. He was coming out of a busted, expensive; emotionally draining marriage had a fading career and was wiped clean financially from the divorce. Me I had a job making good money, a house, some savings and little else in my life and not much to look forward too. They used to call women like me spinsters. We were both in debt.
On paper we both looked pretty bad. However being the oddballs that we are it looked like a match made in heaven so we went for it. Best move we could have made. He has been retired for two years now. I bail in two weeks. The assets that we are using to FIRE are primarily from an inheritance that he received making him much wealthier that I. That “imbalance” lasted about a month. The first thing he did was to see an attorney and have all assets legally put in both of our names. I have done the same with any thing that I had and we move forward from there.

I guess where we came from and the hole that we dug ourselves out of has made us certain that this marriage is rock solid and for life. (His kids are less that thrilled at that prospect but they will get over it.) We are looking forward to time together. That is motivation for me to retire early. We got a late start and we are going to make the most of the time we have.

[donheff]

Re: the "if one person is working can it be RE" thread of this discussion, I believe yes in any sense of the concept. In our case, DW and I worked and saved to enable RE. When I hit 56, the numbers showed that with my Fed pension and our joint savings we could both RE and continue to live the live we are accustomed to. I pulled the plug, but DW decided to contine for several years. She is not unhappy at work, is making a lot of $ and likes the idea of savings overkill.

Since I benefit from her decision to stay in the harness for a while, I chose to serve as her chauffer and the household errand boy (I have always been the cook). Hmmm, maybe that makes me employed part time....

The bottom line is RE is in the mind of the participant. If you have pulled the plug from the rat race, even maybe, doing some part time gigs for mad money, it strikes ne that you have "retired." I'm here, I'm FIRE'd, get used to it!

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha I am originally from a very small town that is one of the poorer areas of my state. Once in a while I put on my small town hat and think "what would people in my home town think"? If you are male or an unmarried female, less than about 60 years old,* and you don't work, you are either rich, laid off, or "troubled."* No one would ever use the word retired to describe a young person who doesn't work.*

My Dad used to say, "That boy is off the rails." Needless to say, he at times considered me to be off the rails too. As did my old school Norwegian insurance agent who brought me 25# sacks of beans from time to time. It was embarrassing to say the least.

Ha

[newyorklady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha I am originally from a very small town that is one of the poorer areas of my state. Once in a while I put on my small town hat and think "what would people in my home town think"? If you are male or an unmarried female, less than about 60 years old, and you don't work, you are either rich, laid off, or "troubled." No one would ever use the word retired to describe a young person who doesn't work.

Hey, can't I be rich, laid off, troubled AND retired? Well, I have never been laid off but rich and troubled wouldn't be a terribly bad thing to be.

[shiny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff The bottom line is RE is in the mind of the participant. If you have pulled the plug from the rat race, even maybe, doing some part time gigs for mad money, it strikes ne that you have "retired." I'm here, I'm FIRE'd, get used to it!

Well said donheff!

[cj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vagabond In a friendly conversation, my younger brother called me a freeloader. I ask; why are you calling me that, he answers; you are living off of society, I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you no longer contribute to society I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you are not spending much of your money. After about 5 minutes of back and forth dialogue, I said, oh, ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Vagabond - you mean that he thinks you would be spending a lot more if you were working? And we all have a "duty" to spend a lot - and work so that we can spend more than if we weren't working? Audrey

Well, you know, if we were all good citizens, we'd all go out and hire financial advisors!* Since most of us are managing our own money, think of all the poor financial advisors we are depriving of making a much better living!* Now all of you, get out there on Monday & contribute to the economy!* Hire yourself a financial advisor!

Sheesh.* *:P

CJ

(And just in case anyone doesn't recognize the sarcasm, that was it!)

[MJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Vagabond - you mean that he thinks you would be spending a lot more if you were working? And we all have a "duty" to spend a lot - and work so that we can spend more than if we weren't working? Audrey

he knows I'm pretty frugal. He and my other brother have always been critical about me not spending a lot of money to renovate my home like they have. They just didn't get that for me and being single, renovating my house wasn't that important. My other brother has redone his kitchen and basement twice. Nothing like a HELOC to keep you in hock for another 20 years. I guess he contributes to society (the economy) a lot more than I did.
It looks like out of all my brothers, I'm the only one with an incurable case of defective "work" gene which forced me to be extra frugal in order to save enough money to ER.
To each his/her own.

[MJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Are you related to Ted? Now get out there and spend!! While you're at it, please spend my share of the burden, too.

Hey Nords,
do you have unlimited memory or do you x-ref and index all the threads?

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vagabond Hey Nords, do you have unlimited memory or do you x-ref and index all the threads?*

Yes. C'mon, I'm a nuke!

Ted had his blowup shortly after I joined the board. Let's just say, before TH chimes in, that he made an impression...

[newyorklady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vagabond In a friendly conversation, my younger brother called me a freeloader. I ask; why are you calling me that, he answers; you are living off of society, I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you no longer contribute to society I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you are not spending much of your money. After about 5 minutes of back and forth dialogue, I said, oh, ok.

This mentality of your brothers is what is wrong with the world today. I know that I am preaching to the choir here, but I am not a freeloader. I am frugal and smart about my money. Money can buy you freedom or enslavement. Freeloaders are those on welfare. Freeloaders are those who spend too much, can't pay off their debts and then go bankrupt. I don't buy in to this whole materialistic American culture. I love America, but think that t.v. has ruined it. Look at those shows like lifestyles of the rich and famous, those mtv versions of it, don't know the name, think it is called cribs. We are breeding little mc hammers. forget that. i would rather have an old beat up car and no worries than a porsche and a noose around my neck.

[Andre1969]

My Granddad retired in 1971 at the age of 55, but Grandmom kept on working until the end of 1980, when the gummint closed down the hospital she was working at. She was 56, and I think she started getting her pension at that time, although she chose to continue working part-time, until she was around 70.

I never looked at Granddad as being "not retired" or a "house husband" or anything like that. Although he did do most of the cooking! And when I was a kid, he'd often watch me while my parents were at work. Sometimes Grandmom would come home during lunch (work was less than 2 miles away) and Granddad would cook lunch for her!

Still, Granddad retired because he was eligible, and he got a pension. He did not depend on Grandmom's income to keep him afloat, so he was never just not working and leeching off Grandmom's income.

Similarly, my Mom is going to be retiring from the gov't around January 2009. She'll get a nice pension, and just won't have to work anymore. My stepdad will probably have to go on a few more years though. But in this case, I'll still look at my Mom as being retired, and not being relegated to housewife status.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Ted had his blowup shortly after I joined the board. Let's just say, before TH chimes in, that he made an impression...

Nothing from here. I think I was here 3 days when he decided to melt down and call everyone a leech.

Somehow someone thought I had something to do with him leaving. I dont think I ever posted anything to any of his threads until his "goodbye and you all suck!" thread when I tried to get him to stay at first, then realized my mistake.

I do have a dog named Ted. But I dont think he's ever been using the computer to post anything. He definitely gets up in the middle of the night and eats my wifes snacks though. She doesnt believe it. Thinks its me.

[Martha]

I too was new to the board when Ted was in the process of decompensating.

I sometimes think about duty and what my obligations are to family, etc. Duty in part keeps me working. Sometimes I also think about a duty to make contributions to the greater good of society. But that doesn't have much to do with work for me. I remember during the Great IQ Debate I brought up Marilyn Vos Savant and the possiblity that she had a duty to contribute more to society than simply writing a goofy newspaper column. . . Where are the philosophers and great thinkers of today? Great gifts = great obligations? Maybe.

[MJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorklady i would rather have an old beat up car and no worries than a porsche and a noose around my neck.

I wouldn't mind a few big homes on sprawlling 500 acre properties, a few 50 acre lakes, RRs, porsches, a butler, maid and cook as long as I got the money easily (inherited, lottery, bank mistake, embeezlement) with obsolutely no worries.

[Caroline]

Quote:

In a friendly conversation, my younger brother called me a freeloader. I ask; why are you calling me that, he answers; you are living off of society, I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you no longer contribute to society I ask; what do you mean by that, he answers; you are not spending much of your money. After about 5 minutes of back and forth dialogue, I said, oh, ok.

Is this "not spending much of your money" as in "not wasting natural resouces by buying unnecessary things that cost petroleum and material to build, ship, and stock, not contributing to the landfill with the byproducts of same, not clogging the freeways and my airways going to work every day in a gas-guzzler, not taking a job from someone else who actually needs it, etc. etc. etc.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

I'd say you were contributing MORE than us working stiffs... Can't wait to start doing my share!

Caroline

[Gumby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha * Great gifts = great obligations?* Maybe.

..

[newyorklady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline Is this "not spending much of your money" as in "not wasting natural resouces by buying unnecessary things that cost petroleum and material to build, ship, and stock, not contributing to the landfill with the byproducts of same, not clogging the freeways and my airways going to work every day in a gas-guzzler, not taking a job from someone else who actually needs it, etc. etc. etc. I could go on, but you get the picture. I'd say you were contributing MORE than us working stiffs... Can't wait to start doing my share! Caroline

Good point. My cheapness or frugality does make me an environmentalist of sorts.