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FYI: The West Coast of Mexico this year
Old 02-14-2009, 04:40 PM   #1
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FYI: The West Coast of Mexico this year

We just got back from a visit to the west coast of Mexico, stopping in Acapulco, Ixtapa and Manzanillo/Barre de Navidad and Maleque. We took private tours of Acapulco and Manzanillo areas.

Our group figured that tourism is WAY down in the places we visited. The high-class hotels were almost empty. We were there in the high season and the deck chairs by the pools were almost empty.

One of our tour guides said that last year 80 tour ships came to Manzanillo but this year only about 30 in the same time frame. The other tour guide did not want to address the question.

We got tours away from the sea-side, up into the hills above the cities, into the interesting neighborhoods. There is a lot of property for sale and for rent in those cities. There are some really nice view properties, too. There are a lot of half-built properties that have been stalled for years.

One of our guides was US-born, working for his Mexican uncle in a little town between Manzanillo and Barre de Navidad. He said a small lot on a hillside could be bought for about $8k US and a reasonable house built on that property for about $40k US. He showed us his house for reference.

I would not consider buying in general, but I bet that there are some good deals for rent or for purchase right now. Be sure to get something with good sewer service and good air conditioning.

Every time I go to Mexico I don't want to come back. (Especially to Calgary at -10C.) This year was especially tantalyzing as I am between real jobs, doing pick-up work for a friend.

Cheers,

el Gitano
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:31 PM   #2
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Hi Ed,

Billy and I have been talking about this exact same thing for months on other threads here on the ER Forum as well as on other forums in general. We see the opportunities - including a fulfilling lifestyle for less cash output - and are happy someone else does as well.

It's our position that no place is perfect, some places are less perfect than others and depending on one's financial circumstances, options that are outside of your particular norm are worth considering.

We just finished a month's travel up the west coast of Mexico ourselves and we saw what you saw. Tourism is way down, gorgeous beaches, good food, friendly people and opportunities everywhere. Opportunities come with a price tag even if it means the fact that you have to decide to take them.

We talked about it in our Bailout Your Retirement piece as well as giving the latest prices for what it costs to live in Chapala, Mexico. Sure, you can spend more - you can always spend more. But if you find yourself in a situation that you would like to change, there are places you can go to live a decent life without all the complexities and expenses we find 'up north'.

I know not everyone is willing to give up the familiar to try something new, but if you are, there are lots of beautiful places in the world to see.

Thanks for beginning this post.

Be well,

Akaisha
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Old 02-14-2009, 07:37 PM   #3
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Hmmm - since I would get laughed out of the room - I won't even bring up Tonganoxie. Last year's Nags Head family reunion is shaping up this summer to be north of Ensenada due to a condo owner in the family. That close to the border strikes me as Gringo Lite or not really ex-pat - more like going ashore from a cruise ship.

Looks like the family rotation scale is shifting back West. Wonder what the Peso to Dollar will be by summer?

heh heh heh - oh well I guess like the Saint's, Kansas is going to have to wait for it's day in the Sun.
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:25 AM   #4
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Hi, Akaisha,

Thanks for popping in! I get your bulletins by e-mail. Always good stuff.

It is nice to have our observations confirmed. Isn't it interesting that the locals don't want to fess up that tourism is weak?

Chapala is on my radar. I gather that there is a quilting society somewhere around there. Highly desirable. Do you know anything about that?

Cheers,

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Old 02-15-2009, 08:11 AM   #5
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Hi Ed,

Glad you enjoy our updates. Thanks for letting me know. We appreciate the feedback.

Re: the locals not wanting to admit that tourism is down - I think it probably depends on who you ask. In Asia this tactic of ‘not fessing up’ to what is rather obvious is called ‘saving face.’ Some Mexicans may not want to appear to have money issues or to be in need. Some - on the other hand - use the lack of tourism to try and get a better tip or to have you purchase their wares out of guilt or compassion for their situation.

What we personally found was that when we went to rent rooms we bargained. No one was in these hotels and so they were hungry. We said ‘we’ll stay ‘x’ amount of nights. What about this price per night?’ The owners were still able to keep their pride, have someone in their hotel and make money at the same time. It was a win-win. We did this from Oaxaca all the way up the western coast of Mexico and got great deals.

One room in Barra de Navidad went for $100+ USD (the following week during 'high season') and between bargaining and the Dollar-Peso exchange, we got it for $23. Another room in Oaxaca was $18 a night, and between bargaining and the better exchange, we got it for $10.50 nightly.

About Chapala - it has changed so much since we used to live here in the ‘90’s. Many more activities and options for entertainment, volunteering and learning than was ever here before. I personally don’t know about a quilting society, but I wouldn’t doubt it.

Why not take a look at our Chapala Travel page and click on one of the forums or newsletters listed there at the top and check it out?

If there isn’t one you could start one! I know some serious seamstresses and handiworkers here who would surely be interested.

Be well,

Akaisha
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:14 AM   #6
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Thanks, Akaisha.
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:32 PM   #7
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Hmmm - sooo is there a two tiered pricing system - especially in a down period - one for short time Kansas City cats who don't speak the lingo.

And one for knowledgeable ex-pats who speak Spanish and are 'in the know' because both parties can tell before and during the 'barter'?

heh heh heh - I don't haggle good at flea markets up here. .
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:19 PM   #8
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Bartering is a skill I learned after we retired. We spent such a good deal of our time overseas where this is common practice and, actually respected, that I had to learn how to do it.

Always ask for a discount. Start out simply. There are certain 'survival phrases' that you can learn off the bat, (please, thank you, how much?, is there a discount?) things like that and then build on those. If you have to, point to a calendar to show how long you will be staying and then ask Hay una discuenta (eye - oona - dis-qwenta?)

The fact that you even know that bargaining is accepted already puts you into a good position. Your Spanish doesn't have to be that good, really...

Billy says that after a couple of Margaritas, your Spanish will improve tremendously! Always be polite and respectful, and you'll be fine. Also the longer you stay in a place, the more likely they will give you a discount.

Local places are more likely to oblige than chain hotels, for instance. However, if you are bringing in other people to stay you might be able to get a group discount. Never hurts to ask.

Good luck!

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Old 02-15-2009, 05:23 PM   #9
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Thanks for the info.

heh heh heh -
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Old 02-15-2009, 07:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick View Post
Hmmm - sooo is there a two tiered pricing system - especially in a down period - one for short time Kansas City cats who don't speak the lingo.

And one for knowledgeable ex-pats who speak Spanish and are 'in the know' because both parties can tell before and during the 'barter'?

heh heh heh - I don't haggle good at flea markets up here. .
I'm sure there is. I've got a cousin who lives in the Keys. He says there's a whole different economy for locals vs. natives. If he goes to buy a baseball cap he shows them his license (address), and suddenly a $20 cap costs $10. Don't know how accurate that is, but it sounds reasonable in any such huge tourist area.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:42 AM   #11
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Thanks again, Akaisha, for valuable advice.

Cheers,

Lalo el Gitano
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:36 AM   #12
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You are welcome, Ed! No problem…

Quote:
I'm sure there is. I've got a cousin who lives in the Keys. He says there's a whole different economy for locals vs. natives. If he goes to buy a baseball cap he shows them his license (address), and suddenly a $20 cap costs $10. Don't know how accurate that is, but it sounds reasonable in any such huge tourist area.
Billy suggested to me that I didn’t really answer your question about the existence of two pricing systems.

In Thailand, one goes to a national park and there are 2 prices posted before you enter. One for Thai nationals and another for foreigners - which is easily 5-10 times higher. Vendors easily ‘size you up’ before quoting prices for any given trinket or even food at the markets.

Here in Chapala, it is not so prevalent. What I mean is that many prices are posted in stores and so anyone and everyone pays the same price, local or otherwise.

But if you go through a realtor to find a place to rent, you will be paying a higher price for the rent and the service of finding you a place than if you rented from a local Mexican and simply asked the vendors, the maids and the locals yourself.

But if you go to a bar, you will pay the regular price that anyone pays for a beer. If you go to a highly tourist driven place (like Puerto Vallarta) you will over pay for food, lodging, beer, and trinkets. Even vendors on the beach will expect to receive more for their trinkets and beach wear from you than what any local would pay.

I can go just about anywhere in Chapala and pay what locals pay - generally speaking. But because this place is filled with ExPats, the economy has been skewed upwards. For instance, the hourly rate of paying a maid. Locally, the price is 25 pesos per hour (currently about $1.75) - which is what I pay. But the Westerners living here and in Ajijic have affected the price of maids dramatically - to the point where they pay 50-75 pesos an hour. ($3.50 - $5.25)

Now at first blush one might say “oh big deal that’s not a lot of money, and it’s a crime to pay these people such pittance wages” but that is only part of the story.

Throwing money at these people in this manner has had the affect that young girls now choose to become maids instead of going to school to become teachers or office workers or what have you. Working for Gringas cleaning toilets and washing dishes will make them more money than what they would receive after getting a higher education. It has become a complex issue.

But I have gotten off topic here.

To sum it up, for the most part, in this town of Chapala living locally, there really isn’t a 2 price system, unless you want to count what Westerners pay other Westerners for their services and for renting from Westerners. Or if you go to a tourist town… It’s always a better price to buy something as a local from a local.

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Old 02-19-2009, 06:12 PM   #13
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Akaisha,

When we start thinking about visiting Chapala, I may give you a holler. OK?

Gracias.

Lalo el Gitano
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Old 02-20-2009, 03:36 PM   #14
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HI Ed,

Sure, no problem! We may be in Asia, we may be in the States, or we may be here in Mexico somewhere... Be sure to email us at TheGuide@RetireEarlyLifestyle.com and if we are here, we'll surely connect.

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slightly off-topic
Old 02-20-2009, 08:49 PM   #15
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slightly off-topic

Akaisha,

One thing I have been reflecting on during and since our trip:

I was thinking that we saw many places where we could set up camp for very reasonable cost, but we sure would stick out. I had not thought much about it until we were actually there, but we would be targets where we went visiting. Everybody knows you are there and someone will be watching for when you are away so they can clean you out. (I just read an account of that on the Viva Veracruz forum and several mentions of lesser thefts.) Apparently, this has happened in PV, too.

I am guessing that this might be less of a problem in Chapala or perhaps Guad. Maybe Mazatlan, too, in a well-chosen neighborhood.

It might be safest to appear portable, just passing through, but I know DW would want to have nice things and make a nest. What to do?

Ed
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:14 AM   #16
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Hi Ed,

Sorry for the delay in my response. We are packing up to leave Chapala and head back to the States on Tuesday. Been busy!

Quote:
I was thinking that we saw many places where we could set up camp for very reasonable cost, but we sure would stick out… we would be targets where we went visiting. Everybody knows you are there and someone will be watching for when you are away so they can clean you out. ..I am guessing that this might be less of a problem in Chapala or perhaps Guad. Maybe Mazatlan, too, in a well-chosen neighborhood.
Quote:

It might be safest to appear portable, just passing through, but I know DW would want to have nice things and make a nest. What to do?

Aaahhhh yessss… petty robberies.

Theft has been an issue here in Mexico for as long as I can remember.
There are some things you can do to effectively ward off this type of trouble - and the more of them you implement, the better off you are.

1.) Most Gringos live in these ‘Gringo Enclaves’ which look just like the suburbia they live(d) in back home, except tropical. It’s a country club type of feel or an upscale kind of neighborhood. Guess what? These are the primary targets for these kinds of thefts.

If you choose a neighborhood like this in which to live, make sure you have a guard at the gate, or have electrical fences around the compound, or have bars on your windows and doors and guard your skylights or --- all of the above.

Now I know that sounds awful to Americans or Canadians thinking of moving south, but this is very very common for living anywhere in Latin America and other locations like upscale neighborhoods in Thailand. The iron work done here in these countries is outstanding and you can find some really creative and engaging looks for your home without feeling like you are in jail. Basically - get with the program.

2.) Some people make a concerted effort to have house sitters stay in their homes while they are gone. This is a good exchange on both sides. Your home has someone living in it, your plants get watered, and if you have a pet, there is no need for you to put it in a kennel. You also don’t need to stop your cable TV, your internet service and what have you.

Sometimes, the gardener or maid (who might not be trustworthy while you are gone) will clearly see that someone is staying in your home and won’t open the door to friends, neighbors or relatives who are in the ‘clean-out-your-house’ business. They will feign innocence about knowing the thief, but ‘somehow’ the door was left unlocked by mistake or better yet, someone who has the key will let them in. Yes, this does happen. BTW, it’s reasonably easy to find reputable house sitters.

3.) You could choose not to live in such upscale surroundings (with upscale fees, needing a car for transport, - all adding to your costs - and all your neighbors will be white and speak English and you‘ll never need to learn Spanish, etc.) and decide to live more locally in a simple home right with the Mexican people.

You are absolutely right in that the Mexican people will all know where you are, where you are not, where you go and where you live. They will also put it together who your spouse is. However, I suggest that you use this in your favor.

Utilize your neighbors like a ‘neighborhood watch’ system. Make an effort to learn Spanish. If you over-buy fruits and vegetables (easy to do since they are so affordable) give them to your neighbors out of friendliness.

Learn Spanish. Shoot the breeze with them and find out what their kids’ names are, and so on. Hire a local or neighbor for your plumbing needs, or for whatever else you want. Get integrated into the neighborhood.

What happens so often, is that the Norte Americanos come down here dressed in all their matching upscale clothing, wearing the nice jewelry out on the streets that they wear back home, drive an outstanding vehicle, don’t make any effort to speak Spanish at all, and look down their noses in a type of ‘compassion’ that is easily seen through, all the while throwing money at a maid or gardener (who may or may not pay you back…). You may as well have a bull’s eye painted on your back.

Many of the locals could only DREAM of living how the Gringos do and there is such a chasm between these two societies that some justify it by setting up these robberies. It is not YOU they dislike so much, it’s what you represent: The wealth they will never have.

4.) Volunteer in the community. If you become involved in the schools or school programs, with the older folks in an old age home or in your neighborhood, volunteer in a hospice program, teach English as a second language or so on… you will become recognized by people of whom you have no idea. These people will protect you in ways that are very valuable. Word of mouth is powerful either way it is used. You want it to be positive and to your benefit.

5.) If you do leave for an extended period - you can put your treasured items in a storage location or give them to a friend in town. (computers, gems, whatever)

This is not to scare anyone off by any means. One can live well and comfortably for a modest amount if you choose to do so. But the more one flashes cash, toys, wealth and attitude, the more one becomes a target for emotional payback or a ‘native justice‘.

I’m sure there are other precautions, but these are the ones that come quickly to mind. All of that being said, Billy and I have lived locally here in Mexico for years and - knock on wood - have never been robbed.

Hope this helps.

Akaisha
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:07 PM   #17
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Billy/Akaisha,

Can you all please stop making these Mexican destinations look so darn appealing on your website! Some of us are still stuck working and can't get away yet!

Maybe I can squeeze in a week down south somewhere soon. I can do an almost free trip down with frequent flier miles, and the desinations available to me are baja sur (los cabos), puerto vallarta, ixtapa/zihuantanejo, cancun, cozumel, and el D.F. Not sure where I want to go though. Oaxaca looks nice, but it is a half day by bus from DF.
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:39 PM   #18
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Billy/Akaisha and others we're headed to Manzanillo on Friday for two weeks. Any must see/do things in the area? We'll have a car for the whole time so getting around shouldn't be a problem. We are planning to visit the turtle sanctuary 20 miles south on one day.

As usual we'll be scoping out the area with an eye to relocation should we decide to become expats. We're looking at "real Mexico" to relocate to, as Cabo and Mazatlan are too touristy to suit our preferences. Still want to check out more of Baja as well as other parts of Mexico.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:53 PM   #19
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Coastie,

Hiring a car with a reliable bi-lingual driver who will take you where you want to go is a very good idea. You can ask questions that way. I will try to find the contact for the one we used.

We went around the neighborhoods, up into the hills. We got a tour of the little town our driver lives in , Miramar. We went to Las Hadas and looked around and some of the other upscale places on that peninsula.

We went up the road to Barre de Navidad and Melaque. Moon has as pretty thorough book on the area. Frommer's has a Portable Puerto Vallarta, Manzanillo & Guadalajara that has a good section on Barre. Wander around. You will have the time. Take lots of pictures.

If some in your party want to shop for something specific (we went to the fabric stores, believe it or not), a driver is a good idea. If you will be on your own and you are staying somewhere with an English-speaking manager, you may be able to learn what you want from him/her.

Have a good time!
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:54 PM   #20
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Akaisha,

Thanks! That all makes good sense to me.

Cheers,

Ed
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