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Old 05-16-2010, 08:11 PM   #21
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It was like returning to a loud, boisterous family that constantly argues, makes up, etc. yet is so alive!
Reminds me a bit of this forum sometimes.
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:47 PM   #22
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Reminds me a bit of this forum sometimes:
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:05 PM   #23
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Reminds me a bit of this forum sometimes:
Who ARE those peeps WS? Don't watch much TV these days so I must have missed this somehow. Yup, still stuck back in the days of Star Trek, Mary Tyler Moore, and Seinfeld
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:05 AM   #24
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I love my county and would never, ever consider giving up my US citizenship. It's more precious that gold.

I do, however, reserve the right to gripe about stuff. That doesn't mean I don't love the USA. In fact, because I love this country so much, I want to work to make it a better place for all of us. Yes, I realize my ideals don't mirror everyone else's. However, I believe when people of different frames of mind make an effort the end result is better. That's what makes this country great. Freedom to disagree. Finding common ground. Taking into account diverse opinions and making it all work somehow. I am proud to be an American.
One of my friends renounced his citizenship in the USA. I don't blame him. Back in the sixties, his the American government told him "We have a job for you to do". He went to South-East Asia and did it. When he returned, he was spat on and called a 'baby-killer' by the people he he went to 'serve'. Employers shunned him so to get a job he came north. The 'people' he served (and who wouldn't hire him after) demanded tax returns. When he became eligible for citizenship here, his attitude was "USA can KMA".

YMMV.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:09 AM   #25
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Your friend wasn't called a baby killer by the people he went to serve. He was called a baby killer by a small percentage of idiots who had no concept of reality. Cops go through a similar thing on a smaller scale on a regular basis. People cuss at them, spit on them,and throw bottles at them by a small percentage of people who cant stand authority. That doesn't mean everyone hates cops.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:42 AM   #26
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I might travel the world and not come back, but give up my citizenship? Not on your life. That is only for the uber-rich, not me.

Once when I was traveling, a very old border control officer handed my passport back and said very quietly, "You are very lucky." All I could think of was to say "I know" and smile back.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:40 AM   #27
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One thing I don't understand is why people take it so personally when someone decides to renounce their US citizenship. Their doing so does not hurt you in any way so why the vitriol? It seems as if many take it as a slight upon the US when someone renounces their US citizenship.
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:34 PM   #28
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People renounce their citizenship for all types of reasons. They do what is best for them so I say 'best of luck'.

I will never renounce my US citizenship. I am fortunate to be very happy where I am and feel blessed every day of my life.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:38 PM   #29
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My uncle went over to Japan in 1945 and married a local woman. He stayed on they had three kids who were born and raised there. He has them give up their US citizenship since he didn't want them drafted for the Vietnam War. It made sense for them.

I am stuck with dual citizenship with Iran, which I can only renounce for a very large fee.
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Old 05-18-2010, 04:44 PM   #30
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Never!

I love to visit other places... but I would not want to be there permanently.

Well... I suppose the exception might be canuck land (maybe). Hey aren't they the 51st state anyway?

Cheers Y'all
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:58 PM   #31
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One thing I don't understand is why people take it so personally when someone decides to renounce their US citizenship. Their doing so does not hurt you in any way so why the vitriol? It seems as if many take it as a slight upon the US when someone renounces their US citizenship.
Why? It is a slap in the face to our forefathers who struggled to make this country independent and prosperous, our soldiers who have died protecting our freedoms, and to our fellow citizens who work every day to pay for our government, our infrastructure, our schools, social services, security, etc. so that we can all maintain a high standard of living.

Most people in the world would die (and many have) for a chance to trade places with many of the selfish, ungrateful loudmouths (Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Barbra Streisand, et al..) who publicly denigrate this country with their mouths full, while living in unparalled luxury, comfort and safety here.

Yeah, I do take it as a slight on the USA. But maybe that's just me.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:52 PM   #32
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Why? It is a slap in the face to our forefathers who struggled to make this country independent and prosperous, our soldiers who have died protecting our freedoms, and to our fellow citizens who work every day to pay for our government, our infrastructure, our schools, social services, security, etc. so that we can all maintain a high standard of living.

Most people in the world would die (and many have) for a chance to trade places with many of the selfish, ungrateful loudmouths (Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Barbra Streisand, et al..) who publicly denigrate this country with their mouths full, while living in unparalled luxury, comfort and safety here.

Yeah, I do take it as a slight on the USA. But maybe that's just me.
See to me you are making it something personal, someone's reasons for giving up their citizenship may be totally unrelated to any of the things you mention. As for those Hollywood types, I think they were beautifully characterised in Team America, they blather on and threaten to leave if their candidate does not win, but none of them ever seem to go.

Not everyone who gives up their US citizenship would be doing it to avoid taxes. For some, its just a case they were born in a place where they would prefer not to be. For example, you get people who are complete Francophiles, that's where they desire to be, that is where there heart belongs. I say good on them for following their heart, don't stay American or Australian or Canadian if your deepest desire is to be French and you have the opportunity to gain the piece of paper that allows you to say you are.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:56 PM   #33
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Yeah, I do take it as a slight on the USA. But maybe that's just me.
No...it's not just you. It bothers me too when US citizens yak away about what is wrong with our country, but I can tune them out and go on with my day.

Now, these same US citizens that are disgruntled can renounce their citizenship and move elsewhere...I feel the same in my previous post. I will say, "best of luck" as I wave goodbye.
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:05 PM   #34
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Who's to say which country is the best one to live in? Not I, but I have no reason to not want to live here--no job situation taking me anywhere, no romance with someone from another country, no persecution taking place where I live.

There is some truth in sticking with the devil you know, however, whether it's the US, China, France, or the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, vs. the grass being greener somewhere else (how's that for mixing metaphors ). Not to mention "bloom where you're planted."
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:25 PM   #35
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See to me you are making it something personal, someone's reasons for giving up their citizenship may be totally unrelated to any of the things you mention. As for those Hollywood types, I think they were beautifully characterised in Team America, they blather on and threaten to leave if their candidate does not win, but none of them ever seem to go.

Not everyone who gives up their US citizenship would be doing it to avoid taxes. For some, its just a case they were born in a place where they would prefer not to be. For example, you get people who are complete Francophiles, that's where they desire to be, that is where there heart belongs. I say good on them for following their heart, don't stay American or Australian or Canadian if your deepest desire is to be French and you have the opportunity to gain the piece of paper that allows you to say you are.
Nothing personal intended or implied.

As for your theoretical Francophile, all I can say is- au revoir, les allers simples sont meilleur marché...
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:52 AM   #36
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Do you think your family members would take offense if you denounced them? Why should they? Maybe you just feel like you were just born into a family that you really don't fit into.

I would say that if you dont get along with or feel like you dont fit in with your family, that you should spend less time with them. But to openly denounce them and state that you want nothing to do with them and and dislike them so much that you are willing to give up every benefit that comes with being part of the family (not sure what that would be but you get the point), that would really feel like a slap in the face to them.

Same thing when someone denounces their citizenship.

Personally, I fit into and get along much better with my wifes family than my own, but I would never denounce my own family.
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:18 AM   #37
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I too am not sure why some have such excessive passion on this topic. Some folks have so much, but are so greedy, and have no other values in their life that compare with greed, and so choose to change citizenship in order to enjoy the benefits of the developed world without paying for them. So be it. Who cares? The time I’ve spent on this thread exceeds the total time I’ve spent contemplating this subject over the past decade.

Funny nobody has brought up the US companies that do this all the time, usually for the same reasons.

Edward Everett Hale wrote an excellent short story in 1863 titled “The Man Without a Country”. I enjoyed this story as a young boy, this thread made me remember. Plot summary from Wikipedia
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The protagonist of the story is a young United States Army lieutenant named Philip Nolan, who develops a friendship with the visiting Aaron Burr. When Burr is tried for treason (historically this occurred in 1807), Nolan is tried as an accomplice. During his testimony, Nolan bitterly renounces his nation, angrily shouting "Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!" Upon conviction, the judge icily grants Nolan his wish: he is to spend the rest of his life on warships of the United States Navy, in exile, with no right ever again to set foot on U.S. soil, and with explicit orders that no one shall ever mention his country to him again.
The sentence is carried out to the letter. For the rest of his life, Nolan is transported from ship to ship, living out his life as a prisoner on the high seas, never once being allowed back in a home port. None of the sailors in whose custody Nolan remains are allowed to speak to him about the U.S., and his newspapers are censored. Nolan is unrepentant at first, but over the years becomes sadder and wiser, and desperate for news. One day he says to a young officer, as he is being rowed over to another ship on which he is to be held, he beseeches a young sailor never to make the same mistake he made, and to: "Remember, boy, that behind all these men..., behind officers and government, and people even, there is the Country Herself, your Country, and that you belong to her as you belong to your own mother. Stand by her, boy, as you would stand by your mother...!"
Deprived of a homeland, Nolan slowly and painfully learns the true worth of his country. He misses it more than his friends or family, more than art or music or love or nature. Without it, he is nothing. Dying, he shows his room to an officer named Danforth; it is "a little shrine" of patriotism. The Stars and Stripes are draped around a picture of George Washington. Over his bed, Nolan has painted an eagle, with lightning "blazing from his beak" and claws grasping the globe. At the foot of his bed is a dated map of the old territories. Nolan smiles, "Here, you see, I have a country!" Nolan dies content after Danforth finally tells him all that has happened to the U.S. since his sentence was imposed. Nolan asks him to have them bury him in the sea and have a gravestone placed in memory of him, at Fort Adams or at Orleans.
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Old 05-19-2010, 12:09 PM   #38
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Most people in the world would die (and many have) for a chance to trade places with many of the selfish, ungrateful loudmouths (Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Barbra Streisand, et al..)
You forgot Rush Limbaugh

Rush Limbaugh: I'll Leave Country Over Health Bill - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
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Old 05-19-2010, 12:13 PM   #39
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I too am not sure why some have such excessive passion on this topic.
I find it a little hard to understand also. Renounce citizenship is not the same as denounce America. Even if it were, who thinks that America is his family? Yecch!

People would be happier if they saved their passion for the bedroom, and realized that much else is just business.

Ha
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Old 05-19-2010, 12:16 PM   #40
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People would be happier if they saved their passion for the bedroom, and realized that much else is just business.

Ha
Yahooooo!
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