Golf Talk Tuesdays 2015-2020

[garyt]

#8 makes no sense. So you're on the tee and you can't hit because the other group isn't clear, but you can't take a practice swing while you wait? Makes no sense .
I could see not wanting people taking practice swings with an iron and taking divots, that's understandable.

[SecondCor521]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Hitter where do you normally play in boise? jcretre77 and I are crane creek members

I don't actually play all that much - once this year so far and once last year I think.

I like Falconcrest, Shadow Valley, and Quail Hollow the best.

@Midpack, what I meant by a "sorta 90 degree rule" is that if my ball is in the middle of a 50 yard wide fairway and there is a cart path along one side of the fairway, I will drive on the cart path until I get maybe 35-40 yards away from my ball then will drive on a 45 degree diagonal to my ball, play the ball, then drive on a 45 degree diagonal back to the cart path. A more direct path to the ball but on the fairway more than the 90 degree rule would imply.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecondCor521 @Midpack, what I meant by a "sorta 90 degree rule" is that if my ball is in the middle of a 50 yard wide fairway and there is a cart path along one side of the fairway, I will drive on the cart path until I get maybe 35-40 yards away from my ball then will drive on a 45 degree diagonal to my ball, play the ball, then drive on a 45 degree diagonal back to the cart path. A more direct path to the ball but on the fairway more than the 90 degree rule would imply.

Great. You’re not just driving down the center of every fairway like a few/some people do, what you’re doing is in the spirit intended as I understand it.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyt #8 makes no sense. So you're on the tee and you can't hit because the other group isn't clear, but you can't take a practice swing while you wait? Makes no sense . I could see not wanting people taking practice swings with an iron and taking divots, that's understandable.

I had never heard it before, but I assume it’s to avoid practice swing divots on tees. I assumed it was more common in the UK, but here’s a few courses stating in their rules no practice swings on tees.

http://www.teeaway.net/uploads/1/0/4...score_card.pdf

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/parks/g...-scorecard.pdf

https://www.meetup.com/NoVaGolfers/e...RTqk2UskxfJMFf

http://www.gcschlossernegg.at/en/golf/etiquette/

Many courses have something to discourage taking practice swing divots on tees in their rules, for those without common sense?

[SecondCor521]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack Great. You’re not just driving down the center of every fairway like a few/some people do, what you’re doing is in the spirit intended as I understand it.

Thanks. As I was writing that description I realized I had never asked anyone what the 90 degree rule meant. Since I'm a literal-engineer type, I assumed they meant actual 90 degree turns off and on the cart path, with a shortest-distance beeline to and from your ball. Which always seemed silly on a gut feeling level somehow.

[Midpack]

I may be the only one here trying to revive my game after a very long layoff, so hopefully I am on the steep part of the (re)learning curve. But I am diligently keeping stats from every round I play, to help focus what I practice and measure progress. To that end, I've found these two tables helpful in establishing goals for myself - not that I will ever actually reach them. I don't remember where I stumbled across the first table, the second was taken from the book I mentioned earlier. FWIW

Stretch Goals?

Score	Fairways (of 14)	GIR (of 18)	Putts
70's	10+	11-12	30 or less
80's	8-9	9	32-33
90's	8	6-7	36 or more

Shot	Ceiling
Approach shots (60-220 yds)	60% GIR, 95% nGIR [1]
Driving	60% Fairways
Game Planning [2]
Greenside Shots	75% Saves
Green Reading	Always break direction, 10% correct amount
220+ Approach	30% GIR, 85% nGIR
Greenside bunkers	50% Saves
20-60 yd shots	35% Saves
3-15 ft putts	95% 3 ft, 50% 8 ft, 25% 15 ft
25+ ft putts	within 10% of starting distance
Trouble shots	PGA median?
Fairway bunker shots	50% GIR, 90% nGIR
15-25 ft putts	23% 15 ft, 15% 20 ft, 10% 25 ft
Long bunker shots	90% on green
Under 3 foot putts	100%

Of course I have to adjust the yardages somewhat to fit my ability, as these are drawn from PGA tour averages. And FWIW, the table is in the order of where the average player can gain the most strokes and therefore should be practicing most. The rankings for each shot are based on how many strokes you might gain, how good you could get, and how many opportunities per round for each shot.

Of course no one is an average player in all respects, so just practicing giving priority in the order above isn't likely the right answer for anyone. We have to see how each of us compare to the ceiling for each to see where are strengths and weaknesses may lie. You might be great at game planning and driving the ball and not as good with your irons. Or you may be great until you reach the green, though statistically most players lose more shots to full stroke shots than to putting according to the book.

Again, it may not be of interest to many others here.

[1]nGIR = near GIR, getting your ball within the relatively safe areas around the green up to about 20 yards from the green surface.

[2]Game Planning = Taking the game you have and making the most of it on the course by properly navigating the course. Knowing your "shot zones" (what your club distance, shot direction and dispersion pattern is) and how to quickly "decision map" (factoring in risk/reward - where to miss, and not) each shot you're faced with. Elaborating completely would take pages and pages, and I suspect most if not all of you understand the concepts.

[F4mandolin]

I get a bit of a laugh at some of these posts....
*stay on the cart path....our course has a few carts....but they are only allowed on the course when the course isn't too soft.....so they aren't used much....it's northern England....it's always soft.
*gimme's are an evil pit of dispair.....how far? By my definition.....within 1 foot. I get picked on a lot for being a mean bastard. Within a foot....I figure I can't miss ( I have, but it picked up a lot of ice in that distance....it was a bad day for weather).
*hunting for a ball here is a part of golf. Although I do like this new 3 minute rule.
The end of this summer has been terrible.....balls are already plunking into the fairways like it's mid winter.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack I[2]Game Planning = Taking the game you have and making the most of it on the course by properly navigating the course. Knowing your "shot zones" (what your club distance, shot direction and dispersion pattern is) and how to quickly "decision map" (factoring in risk/reward - where to miss, and not) each shot you're faced with. Elaborating completely would take pages and pages, and I suspect most if not all of you understand the concepts.

A lot of information in your post, but this is what I mostly key on when I play. My general rule of thumb is to get anywhere between the 150 to 100 markers on a par 4. Therefore, on a 320 - 340 yard hole I'll hit a fairway wood or long hybrid off the tee instead of a driver to minimize the number of errant shots.

I also know exactly how far each club goes when hit correctly, so if I'm faced with a 142 yard shot I know that it's a full 8-iron. The only adjustments I have to make are for wind and the lie. If it's 142 yards into a light breeze and uphill, then I know to use a 7-iron. If it's 142 yards with a light breeze behind me then it might be a 9-iron.

[frayne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Lover A lot of information in your post, but this is what I mostly key on when I play. My general rule of thumb is to get anywhere between the 150 to 100 markers on a par 4. Therefore, on a 320 - 340 yard hole I'll hit a fairway wood or long hybrid off the tee instead of a driver to minimize the number of errant shots. I also know exactly how far each club goes when hit correctly, so if I'm faced with a 142 yard shot I know that it's a full 8-iron. The only adjustments I have to make are for wind and the lie. If it's 142 yards into a light breeze and uphill, then I know to use a 7-iron. If it's 142 yards with a light breeze behind me then it might be a 9-iron.

Knowing your approx. distance with each club within 10 yards is imperative to scoring well. Not to mention having a killer short game.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frayne Knowing your approx. distance with each club within 10 yards is imperative to scoring well. Not to mention having a killer short game.

It's all about the short game. You can miss every single green, but if you can get up and down half the time and 2 putt the other 9 times you will shoot 81.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Lover A lot of information in your post, but this is what I mostly key on when I play. My general rule of thumb is to get anywhere between the 150 to 100 markers on a par 4. Therefore, on a 320 - 340 yard hole I'll hit a fairway wood or long hybrid off the tee instead of a driver to minimize the number of errant shots. I also know exactly how far each club goes when hit correctly, so if I'm faced with a 142 yard shot I know that it's a full 8-iron. The only adjustments I have to make are for wind and the lie. If it's 142 yards into a light breeze and uphill, then I know to use a 7-iron. If it's 142 yards with a light breeze behind me then it might be a 9-iron.

That’s exactly how I was playing until I read the book above. Not to argue, but the authors show statistically that most players, from pros to 100-shooters will score better the closer in their approach shots are. The closer you are, the less off line you will be on average. I don’t think there’s any doubt our dispersion tightens with reduced distance. 2 degrees off and 10% off distance with a 9-iron is much narrower than 2 degrees off and 10% off distance with a 5-iron.

You need some of both, but longer drives will do more to lower scores than better driving accuracy. They report for an 80’s shooter, and extra 20 yards off the tee is worth 1.3 strokes per round and a 1 degree improvement in accuracy is worth another 0.9 strokes per round. For a 90’s shooter it’s 1.6 and 0.9 respectively. For a 100’s shooter, 20 yards extra distance is worth 2.5 strokes per round alone. “The single biggest factor in determining the number of strokes it’s likely to take you to hole out: your distance from the hole. Both accuracy and distance help, but distance helps a bit more.” Only at the pro level do they balance out with 0.8 and 0.8 respectively.

Full swing may provide better distance control, that was my rationale for laying up. But developing the ability to control distance from 20-70 yards is part of the game. And I can definitely get on the green/closer from 30 yards than 70 yards even without great partial swing skills.

If you’re giving up even more than 20 yards off the tee (I was giving up as much as 60 yards on short holes “for accuracy”), it stands to reason you’re giving away even more strokes? Where I was laying up on shorter holes, I’ve decided to focus on getting better at hitting my driver no matter how long it takes me. I am not swinging as hard (for accuracy), but still getting way more distance than laying up, and I’m hitting more and more fairways with practice. Even if I miss the fairway slightly, I’d rather be in the light rough than in the fairway 20-60 yards further from the green. Shorter approach shots have indeed improved my scores.

YMMV

[zinger1457]

No personal experience using them but for the stats lover that doesn't want to do all the work recording the data there's Arccos and Game Golf. You need to install a small tab at the grip end of each club and it uses GPS to record all your shots and distances and compiles the stats for you.

[Music Lover]

Golf season has officially ended up here...I played my last game on Oct 20 in 25C (77F) temps. Today it's around freezing and there is no warm weather in the forecast.

2017 golf wrap up:

- I played 53 rounds
- walked 48 of those rounds and rode 5...4 of the 5 cart rounds were tournaments with cart included
- low score 78 at an easy course, high score 101 at a very hard course in 60k (40mph) winds
- total green fees paid $1,513
- I made my first ever hole in one on June 1st

Golf is mostly inexpensive up here...if I remove 4 rounds that were tournaments and 2 other rounds at high end courses, my average cost per round was a little under $25.

[pb4uski]

A friend emailed me this link with an unusual golf swing.... while the commentary mentions that it is effective.... I wonder how repeatable it is... and can she putt?

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/you...ocial_facebook

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski A friend emailed me this link with an unusual golf swing.... while the commentary mentions that it is effective.... I wonder how repeatable it is... and can she putt? https://www.golfdigest.com/story/you...ocial_facebook

Oh my. She must’ve been coached by Happy Gilmore?

[pb4uski]

That's what I was thinking too.

[frayne]

Played the local Jack Nickalus Bear Trace course today for $27, winter rates. Yea, I'm bragging.

[Huston55]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frayne Played the local Jack Nickalus Bear Trace course today for $27, winter rates. Yea, I'm bragging.

I’ve played there (if you mean Chattanooga). Nice course.

[frayne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huston55 I’ve played there (if you mean Chattanooga). Nice course.

Yes, one of our regular tracks and even during the season during the week the senior rate is only $38.

[jkern]

[QUOTE=Midpack;1944253]I may be the only one here trying to revive my game after a very long layoff, so hopefully I am on the steep part of the (re)learning curve. But I am diligently keeping stats from every round I play, to help focus what I practice and measure progress. To that end, I've found these two tables helpful in establishing goals for myself - not that I will ever actually reach them. I don't remember where I stumbled across the first table, the second was taken from the book I mentioned earlier. FWIW

Stretch Goals?

Score	Fairways (of 14)	GIR (of 18)	Putts
70's	10+	11-12	30 or less
80's	8-9	9	32-33
90's	8	6-7	36 or more

These are my stats for the last 10 rounds I shot in the 70s:

Ave score: 76.9
Ave Fairways: 5.2
Ave GIR: 8.1
Ave Putts: 29.3
Ave up/down: 56%