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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-07-2006, 04:00 PM   #21
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

Outahere, I can relate to your sisters comments.
My sister in law, who has so much crap in her house you can barely walk through will comment to her kids "maybe you should ask your rich aunt and uncle to pay your way through college because we don't have any money." My kids got through with minimal loans through our help, working and grants. We do take a big carefully planned vacation every few years,but she is another one who has no idea of the sacrifices we have made through the years. Hint: she has a timeshare, three vehicles, two of them new and so many clothes they don't fit in the closets or drawers. the third vehicle was bought before the oldest child even turned 16.

I don't regret one minute the decisions we have made, except I wish that we had started being so frugal earlier. And I will have no trouble turning them down if they ask for money, one did already and got a very firm no.
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-07-2006, 06:53 PM   #22
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamHouston
What I'm noticing is an attempt on the part of a farily high percentage of people to make me (and others in my position) feel guilty about being able to leave the rat race


Feel guilty?* Hell no!* I'm typically immune to guilt trips of any kind but this is a no-brainer.* In fact, the first few weeks after I quit I may get up early just so I can head over to the office to smile and wave at everyone as they trudge in to another 12 hour day.* I expect Mondays to be especially gratifying.* *
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-07-2006, 07:45 PM   #23
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

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Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
In fact, the first few weeks after I quit I may get up early just so I can head over to the office to smile and wave at everyone as they trudge in to another 12 hour day. I expect Mondays to be especially gratifying.
I had a group of my coworkers convinced that the Monday morning after I retired I would greet them as they drove into the parking lot. They were to look for me sitting in a lawn chair, wearing my bathrobe, drinking a cup of coffee and waving to them as they pulled in.

I really considered it. Woke up early that Monday morning, said eff it, rolled over and went back to sleep...

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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-07-2006, 09:13 PM   #24
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

I could never have convinced anyone that anything like that was ever going to happen in a million years. I did send a few emails to a few key people every few days for a little while saying "guess who's still in bed in his pajamas at 10am?"
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-07-2006, 09:45 PM   #25
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

I have never felt guilty about money or quitting early, but I've been made to feel a little defensive about it at times. I don't think people will change though, so I must try to work on my reactions/feeling rather than try to "defend" my lifestyle.

There are lots of people who "get it" though. Many people that DH and I have worked with have money and know that they could save and ER if they wanted, so they don't really question our lifestyle choices. Ironically its folks we know who are mid-range on the salary scale that want to look richer and therby spend all of their money that question our spending habits. Lower income people are just used to being thrify and appreciate me showing up with the coupon.


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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-07-2006, 10:32 PM   #26
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

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When I made a certain investment 5 years ago my sister actually said " wow, you must be a millionare, now you can buy me a house".* Dh's jaw dropped and he later asked me if she was for real.* I had to say yes because she actually believes I should buy her a house.
LOL!* My sister (who's never worked more than two days a week in her life), asked me to co-sign a loan for a house for her (in the middle of the Calif. housing bubble, no less).* I politely turned her down, after which she got quite angry and exclaimed how unfair it was that "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."* *This from a woman born a year and a day after I was and raised in the same working-class family!

When people who supposedly love and care for you find that you are doing well financially, the correct response is "congratulations!"* *For the obnoxious others, I have a standard response.

It goes like this:* "Bite me!"

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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-07-2006, 10:49 PM   #27
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

I've found that in life that the only 2 people that are really happy for your success are your parents. Sometimes in disfunctional familes this is not even true.

Most everyone else is envious.
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-07-2006, 11:38 PM   #28
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
In fact, the first few weeks after I quit I may get up early just so I can head over to the office to smile and wave at everyone as they trudge in to another 12 hour day.* I expect Mondays to be especially gratifying.
Don't forget, you'll have your life back soon and there'll be many better ways to pass your time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Woke up early that Monday morning, said eff it, rolled over and went back to sleep...
... like that!
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 12:21 AM   #29
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

i can't imagine people in my life not being happy for me. i was going to retire this past jan as a present to myself on my 49th b-day but instead retired last summer with my friends saying "what are you waiting for?" (as if doing them injustice by working when i didn't have to).

they can't wait for me to start taking month or two long summer vacations (do i even call them vacations now?), renting an apartment on some island or downeast where they can come crash for free for their actual vacations.

in five/six years when i sell house and move onto boat they will have their own free skippered charters.

my problem is not me being retired. it is that all my friends are still working. because now that i have all the toys, i've no one to play with.
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 08:55 AM   #30
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

I don't feel one bit guilty.
Every once in a while, we think about how lucky and fortunate we are.

I do feel a strong sense of obligation to relatives. This has effected timing of my retirement. If we had no family odds are I would have retired some time ago. We need a significant cushion in our budget so we can provide assistance. Very hard to budget for though. My poor DH has gloom and doom fantasies of all my relatives living with us. Or putting single wides for each family on a scrubby piece of northern Minnesota land.
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 09:16 AM   #31
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

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Originally Posted by Martha
I don't feel one bit guilty.
Every once in a while, we think about how lucky and fortunate we are.

I do feel a strong sense of obligation to relatives.* This has effected timing of my retirement.* If we had no family odds are I would have retired some time ago.* We need a significant cushion in our budget so we can provide assistance.* Very hard to budget for though.* My poor DH has gloom and doom fantasies of all my relatives living with us.* Or putting single wides for each family on a scrubby piece of northern Minnesota land.* *
Martha,
I understand Greg's gloom and doom nightmares on having family squat on your land (pun intended). We share a similar concern since we have already "helped" out a couple of family members already with no repayment in sight and the strain it has created between family members. The perspective of additional "needs" is ever present and we have already said No more than once with the expected whining about it not being "fair". That said, if a family member were truly in trouble it would never be a second thought. Laziness and poor financial planning is not a reason for us to hurt our ER plans. We have learned a valuable lesson about lending money to family and expecting to ever see it back again. We have resolved that is now a one time "gift".

Don't let them derail your ER plans. Only impending inprisionment due to financial crisis or starvation or homelessness would be sufficient cuase for dipping into the nest egg to help our family, but it always comes down to personal choice and "blood is thicker than water." It is always easier to say what you won't do........until you are faced with a family member in financial crisis...then the picture gets all fuzzy again. :
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 09:30 AM   #32
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

I've found the same "it's not fair" attitude when it comes to good health. At 35 years old I'm in the best physical shape of my life. To achieve that, I've had to get up at 5:00 a.m. to go to the gym 3 days a week for cardio, and go to the gym in the evening on the intervening 3 days for weight training (I take the 7th day off from the gym). Likewise, I eat extremely healthy and take a whole slew of vitamins, supplemental protein, etc...

When people look at me, they attribute my good health to genetics, having lots of free time, not enjoying the "good life", etc... What they NEVER attribute it to is self-discipline, hard work and determination.

When I eventually FIRE in my 40s, I'd like to be healthy enough to enjoy my money for decades to come.
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 10:25 AM   #33
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

I find myself as a very short-timer in the strange position of quelling other coworkers doubts. Having worked for a fairly large public agency for many years ( 900+ souls in the same building) I've become somewhat of an 'example' of what's possible to my peers. Since we are all eligible for the same benefits more or less, and the calculations are available to all at any time they choose to investigate, it's been interesting in the last few months to have fellow employees want to 'interview' me about how I "Did It".

I've found it odd (over the 7 years that I've been planning FIRE) that so few of my coworkers take advantage of the earliest outs. The answer when I ask them is spread between:

1. Never really thought about it: "Don't you HAVE to work until at least 55-60 to get a decent pension? Don't you need to replace all or most of your gross income to retire?"

2. Thought about it: "I want to get maximum dollars, so that means I have to stay another year, and another year, because they tell me no matter how long I work, I'll get a better payout, the longer I stay."

3. Thought about it recently: "That JonnyM guy seems to have it figured out, I'm going to find out what his secret is before he leaves us."


Group 3 which numbers less than 1 percent of all co-workers have been a joy to chat with, as I lay it out for them. The various concepts I've seen discussed here, i.e. Take home was never close to gross, LBYM as a lifestyle, the Cost of Working, having a paid for Home, far less taxes, maximizing tax deferred savings via the 457 plan, etc.

This small group has really given me a feeling of satisfaction, as in all cases I've chopped years off their mindset for a final retirement date. So in my case I haven't felt too much pressure to stay, or guilt tripping, more I've become a tiny guru for FIRE. I swear I could give a decently attended seminar here, if they'd let me waste company time for it.

Ah well, no time 12 working days, left gotta start boxing up my stuff, and throwing away a couple decades accumulation of junk ............... :
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 10:36 AM   #34
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I don't feel one bit guilty.
Every once in a while, we think about how lucky and fortunate we are.

I do feel a strong sense of obligation to relatives.* This has effected timing of my retirement.
As long as you don't feel like you're working yourself to death for your relatives. It has to be motivated by your own personal conscience or satisfaction, because few others are capable of appreciating the sacrifice.

I've read somewhere that the vast majority of caregivers for elderly/disabled are women relatives.
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 12:09 PM   #35
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
I'm in the best physical shape of my life.* To achieve that, I've had to get up at 5:00 a.m. to go to the gym 3 days a week for cardio, and go to the gym in the evening on the intervening 3 days for weight training
perhaps the expressed envy is just hidden lust. like early retirement enjoy it. difference being, to enjoy er, you had to work for it. to enjoy the lust you just work it.
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 01:17 PM   #36
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I don't feel one bit guilty.
Every once in a while, we think about how lucky and fortunate we are.

I do feel a strong sense of obligation to relatives. This has effected timing of my retirement. If we had no family odds are I would have retired some time ago. We need a significant cushion in our budget so we can provide assistance. Very hard to budget for though. My poor DH has gloom and doom fantasies of all my relatives living with us. Or putting single wides for each family on a scrubby piece of northern Minnesota land.
My wife and I have had to have 'those talks' about the relatives. Not really any problems on my side of the family, but hers are all spend and burn types with no savings, no insurance, and a big pile of toys and debt. Her dad is on social security disability and about to transition to regular social security. Her mom works a billion hours a week to fund a spending habit and a lot of generosity. She drives me nuts...every time she shows up its with an armful of tchochkies that we have no room for or interest in. Her brother works as a contractor to support his wifes hummer and small business fad of the month.

Nobody is putting money away for retirement. The brother has no insurance.

Either of them falls down and breaks something, its going to be a big problem.

We've decided that we'll make a one time payment to keep them afloat for one month, if asked to. After that, they need to start selling stuff until they get going again. If we had ten million bucks, the 'solution' might be different, however we're not going to pay out gabes college money or his inheritance to cover someone elses poor life planning, relative or not.

I did have an idea thats a little more upscale from Gregs...plots of 10-20 acres arent hard to come by for a somewhat rational price in some areas around here. Brother in law is a home builder. Have him put a few homes up with an attached in-law home on each one...with the homes not that close to each other on the piece of land. Sell our respective homes to finance the new ones, and then migrate our parents into the in-law quarters when they're too old to care for themselves. Let them sell their old homes to fund their continued retirements. Financially reasonable.

My wife nixed it though. No way she wants all those relatives that close...
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 03:19 PM   #37
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

You married a smart one, CFB. Now get in there and do your duty... :P
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 03:49 PM   #38
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

I wouldn't change the timing of my retirement to help relatives who made poor choices. Through the years when we have talked about living below our means or making do with a car for another year and saving for the next one they have not wanted to listen and made fun of us, calling us cheap. They have gone through more new cars than I can ever hope to my entire life.

Now is someone had an unforseen circumstance, loss of job due to cancer, or catastropic hurricane like loss, that is totally different. We also help my elderly in-laws at time, doing repairs and not letting them give us money for the materials, and we pay for thier internet access after giving them a computer so they keep in touch with others via e-mail.

Spending money like crazy, declaring bankruptcy a few times then expecting someone else to help you that has prepared is lunacy.
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 04:08 PM   #39
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

For the last 5 to 7 years of my job, I never made it a secret about what I was up to (ER).* Lots of my cow-orkers thought I was way too focused on money.* I don't think any of them resented it when I retired because my intentions had been so public, but it did sober up a few of them . . . knowing that it could be done.* Needless to say, they have become focused on money.* *
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts
Old 03-08-2006, 05:06 PM   #40
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Re: Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

How have you managed to retire early? How did you have medical benefits? Were the kids grown and out of the house? Do you have health problems?Prescription coverage?
What is your life style? Do you garden,do you can or freeze foods, do rebates, use coupons, barter, shop at thrift stores, garage sales, do e bay?s
How did you plan for retirement?
What did you invest your savings in?
I am very interested and have just found this site-not being nosy but want to follow your example. thanks
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