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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 03-17-2005, 06:31 PM   #21
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

The situation (I hope) will come up for us fairly soon, and I feel a bit guilty about it already -- especially on bad days at work for DH.
On the other hand, DH keeps saying that he's not ready to quit yet ....
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 03-18-2005, 06:36 AM   #22
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

Quote:
... if you look closely at the numbers in many cases the 2nd salary comes at a high price .... money wise and family wise. * Just my opinion. *

Cheers,

Charlie
My dtr would not be able to bring in enough to cover all that she does with the kids so she is also a SAHM who fortunately doesn't have to work financially. I never had that luxury but day care is a lot more expensive now. And we're just talking 'money wise' never mind the wear and tear on the family and society!
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 03-18-2005, 07:26 AM   #23
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

Quote:

Who had the responsibility of putting it on an animals head?

You know, I had the same mindset put in me as a child...probably the last gasp of the "traditional family" mindset. *I think its important for ONE parent to be highly available.

I sure had a little "re-learnin'" to do as I grew up and the world changed drastically around me.

Seems to me theres a direct correlation between the change that took parents out of our childrens daily lives and the "wilding" attitude among kids today. *Our parents had guns available to them as children...how many times did they take one to school and shoot all their schoolmates?
You know, I had the same thing in my formative years (the 50s family structure, not the bacon on the head thing). I occasionally remark to my wife that we have (unintentionally) recreated my childhood and hers (before her parents divorced). In part, I suspect that our upbringing makes this feel "right". However, this has all the result of choices we have intentionally made for a number of years. What we do works for us, but neither of us has any hang ups about this being the only "right" way to do it, "God's way", etc.
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 03-19-2005, 04:58 AM   #24
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

My sister in law is a doctor and she and her husband have five children, with the youngest being twins born when their parents were 45. Her husband is a financial planner. She made the most bucks, so he has ended up staying at home with the kids. They both seem to like their roles. He seems to love hanging out with the mothers in town while the kids play.

My best friend from college and her husband did the same thing. This was a number of years ago and it was highly unusual for the dad to stay at home with the kids. I think both got a lot of flack for it from a number of sources. The kids turned out great, with the oldest (my namesake Martha) at Harvard and the youngest a fine ballet dancer. The power of good parenting, good schools and no television in the house.
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Both spouses should have work skills.
Old 03-19-2005, 08:50 AM   #25
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Both spouses should have work skills.

Spouse & I have been friends with another military married couple for decades. One's an O-6, the other's an O-5, and they'll both stay in until forced to retire. One may be wearing several stars by then, although we all know who's been helping behind the scenes.

So with a combined annual income of over $300K, $2M in the retirement portfolio, and qualified to draw $100K govt pensions with COLAs & paid medical, then why the heck are they both working 70-hour weeks? His excuse is testosterone poisoning-- he loves being a steely-eyed killer of the deep and he feels obligated to "support the family" by being largely absent to earn that means of support. It's not necessarily "right" or "wrong" but it sure has society's seal of approval.

Her reasons are much more complicated. She's the child of alcoholics; her mother sobered up and divorced when the kids were launched from the nest. Mom was immediately impoverished with only rudimentary work skills due to a lifetime of stay-at-home parenthood. So "I gotta work" daughter feels obligated to guarantee herself a maximal lifetime personal income no matter how good her current "domestic" situation is. Of course that includes 16 hours/day of nanny care, cleaning & yard services, and frequent anxieties over the kids' growing pains. They're not raising juvenile delinquents-- and neither is their nanny-- but they certainly lose sleep over it.

However several studies support her working decision. A couple years ago Business Week "proved" that the finances of sending the second spouse to work require deficit spending for the first five years. This was a somewhat biased example of putting a spouse on the CEO track but the point was that expenses may exceed salary for quite a while. The payoff comes when spouse has resume' experience and a couple raises.

The bigger payoff for a working spouse comes in divorcing families where that spouse doesn't immediately plunge into poverty trying to raise the kids on a single unskilled income. If you have only "domestic" workplace skills and your spouse traded you in for the trophy model, how would you support yourself and your kids? The Virginia Longitudinal Study of thousands of divorced families showed that the wife usually gets custody and immediately plunges below the poverty line for several years while gaining workplace experience (and a higher wage). Things worked out but it wasn't pretty, and if both spouses had career skills then the post-divorce depression would be less traumatic.

We know at least two other Navy couples with similar self-imposed career/marriage situations. Their examples certainly inspired me to ER. I'm happy to be an at-home parent, although I'm also certain that no judge would convict a parent committing teenager homicide. (Hang in there, TH, surely it'll get better when our kids are driving & dating.)

My spouse's decision to work part-time is all hers. We don't "need" her income for our frugal lifestyle and some calculators claim that we don't even need her 2021 pension, so her earnings go into tax-deferred savings & self-funded LTC. She can do the math as well as I can but I think that most of her decision involves an inability to turn it off coupled with a desire to play the game out (even if it's just running up the score) until forced to retire. I can understand that.

When she goes to her Reserve duty, the fun lasts until about the third commuting day. (Needless to say, bitching about workplace conditions is met with spouse empathy and free food/booze, but no sympathy.) Despite the pointy-haired bosses in BDUs, at the end of her duty periods she's usually serenely smiling at the offers of extended orders, contractor employment, or even full-time GS-12 jobs. Apparently just being asked is enough personal satisfaction to keep her coming back. At this point she could retire in two years but she'll probably stay another eight just for the occasional self-esteem boost.

Hey, if it makes her happy then that's great. Meanwhile I'll be surfing double sessions-- with or without the kid!
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Re: Both spouses should have work skills.
Old 03-19-2005, 09:59 AM   #26
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Re: Both spouses should have work skills.

[quote]Spouse & I have been friends with another military married couple for decades. *One's an O-6, the other's an O-5, and they'll both stay in until forced to retire. *One may be wearing several stars by then, although we all know who's been helping behind the scenes. *

So with a combined annual income of over $300K, $2M in the retirement portfolio, and qualified to draw $100K govt pensions with COLAs & paid medical, then why the heck are they both working 70-hour weeks? *His excuse is testosterone poisoning-- he loves being a steely-eyed killer of the deep and he feels obligated to "support the family" by being largely absent to earn that means of support. *It's not necessarily "right" or "wrong" but it sure has society's seal of approval.

Nords: With those kind of numbers, it appears that our national gratitude for the "financial hardships" for our men in uniform has been misdirected :)

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Re: Both spouses should have work skills.
Old 03-19-2005, 11:11 AM   #27
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Re: Both spouses should have work skills.

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Nords: *With those kind of numbers, it appears that our national gratitude for the "financial hardships" for our men in uniform has been misdirected :)
C'mon, Jarhead, I'm sure you had days when you could play poker with your uncashed paychecks-- either while deployed for many months or while in the hospital avoiding physical therapy.

They currently have a combined total of five decades of military service. If you or I did this then we'd have similar numbers. And thanks to the military's assignment policies they were DINKs for at least the first 10 years of their careers.

What's even more amazing is that they know next to nothing about investing. They did it all with USPA-IRA FirstCommand. She observed to me in early 2002 that their account balance hadn't gone up in more than a year, and did I think there was a problem with the stock market?

Nice people with nice kids, and I'd happily go to war in any submarine crew that he's part of, but I'd have to say that they've traded their lives for their money.

For the rest of you drooling over the numbers, allow me to point out that they're still married, not disabled, and survivors. The military has few Gretzkys who can pull off that hat trick. You don't put up with those odds just for the money.
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 03-23-2005, 03:13 PM   #28
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

Oh yeah - USPA and IRA -ooops First Command - had the most intimidating sales experience in my life with them - they are not allowed to darken my door. As for your friends - yes, many people are like that - my husband and I are right now, too, but we won't be giving that many years......and we sure *won't* be giving any money to First Command to manage.

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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 03-23-2005, 04:31 PM   #29
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

The "First Command (ment)" is manage your own money.

JG
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 04-22-2005, 12:28 PM   #30
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

Guilty, I do not think so. DW wishes to continue to be fulfilled by being employed. Its her decision. I support her, by doing all the the stuff around the house so that we may play a little more in our new RV.


Need to be on the road more!
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 04-24-2005, 06:04 AM   #31
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

Hey RVer, we too enjoy being on the road. My spouse is retired and I am part time. We are doing several trips a year, up to a month in length. What kind of trips do you do?
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 04-24-2005, 06:37 AM   #32
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

Martha,
Prior to ER in Feb. 05 we rved on weekends *and 2 one week trips per year. *Now, I will drive the RV to our destination and wife will fly in, and drive back home together until she er's in a few years. New RV has a 150 gallon fuel tank versus 100 in the previous RV. Goes a little further without stopping.

Dave
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 04-24-2005, 07:32 AM   #33
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

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Need to be on the road more!
Me, too! I'm already looking at RV's for part-time on the road living and the Escapees site is a favorite. My shot of inspiration before going to work every a.m. Maybe we should start a new thread. Here's an interesting site but be warned, you'll be jealous http://underagedrvers.blogspot.com/

To get back to the guilty, stuff. I am the worker bee and husband stays home. I try like hell to make him feel guilty, so far, no luck

Judy

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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 04-24-2005, 08:24 AM   #34
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

I posted most of this before. Maybe I can make it look fresh.

A friend in Texas told me that "A workin' wife is more valuable than a pumpin' oil well!" That paycheck is nice,
and I don't see my spouse quitting anytime soon.
Anyway, I've suggested that she quit numerous times.
Won't do it. Stubborn about it. So now, I am just waiting for her to decide when to cut back or retire.
Truly have no idea when that will be. A bigger worry
than the loss of the paycheck is how our relationship might be altered by both of us not working. I am absolutely as busy as I wish to be.
Would she be able to do the same without upsetting my
carefully crafted loafing? Stay tuned..................

JG
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?
Old 04-24-2005, 09:40 AM   #35
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Re: Guilty about working spouse?

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I posted most of this before. *Maybe I can make it look fresh.

A friend in Texas told me that "A workin' wife is more valuable than a pumpin' oil well!" *That paycheck is nice,
and I don't see my spouse quitting anytime soon.
Anyway, I've suggested that she quit numerous times.
Won't do it. *Stubborn about it. *So now, I am just waiting for her to decide when to cut back or retire.
Truly have no idea when that will be. *A bigger worry
than the loss of the paycheck is how our relationship might be altered by both of us not working. *I am absolutely as busy as I wish to be.
Would she be able to do the same without upsetting my
carefully crafted loafing? *Stay tuned..................

JG
JG: When your wife quits, that's when the rubber meets the road. (Not talking financially).
My wife was a homemaker, but until I hit my stride after moving to new location, and started golfing and fly-fishing on a regular basis, I had the feeling that she had a little too much husband.
It is definantly an adjustment, and giving a lot of space is the best thing.
My wife and I are both pretty much extroverts, and it was a sacrafice on her part to move 600 miles away, and give up her daily contact with friends she had over the years, so I cut her a lot of slack when we first moved.
She has made new friends, and not only puts up with my hobbies, (obsessions), but would probably divorce me on grounds of "over-exposure" if I decided to stay home more often.
Be prepared to have to come up with a new game plan.
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