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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 08:54 AM   #61
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

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I just don't see where that makes it "socialized" health-care. I live in Mass, I have a BC/BS policy that I pay for...more state money may go to subsidize private policies for poor folks, but it changes ZERO about my plan...I still have BC/BS...
Your rate is regulated to allow the smokers and aids patients to pay the same rate you pay - one for all and all for one (socialism). For example, a BC/BS family plan (4 people) in NH is $580/month. Bet you pay nearly twice that in MA.

Ironically the NH residents can use the same MA doctors for 1/2 the cost because BC/BS is a nation wide network. MA residents will catch onto this very quickly ... I can already hear the sucking sound as people/businesses leave the state.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 09:49 AM   #62
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

If you can't afford the same care as a poor working slob then are you really FI? It sounds to me like you chose to take a little less in health care in return for an early retirement. If you want the same healthcare then maybe you should have worked longer and saved a few thousand more to pay for the insurance. I wouldn't. I'll be out the door as soon as possible.

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Where are the highways that the riff-raff like you (the poor working slobs) can't use, and only the FIRE'd elite like me get to use? What makes you think you should be able to drive on the same highways as people like me?
Uh, the highways were built by the government for the use of everybody. If you want your own private highway, then build it.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 01:14 PM   #63
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Yeah, it sux that People Like Me--got Lyme Disease on a hike, never saw the tick bite, and went undiagnosed for years while they repeatedly ruled out brain & endocrine tumors, heart failure, lupus, MS, leukemia, rheumatoid arthritis, hysteria...--get to pay the same low, low group insurance rates as More Virtuous People such as yourself. But don't worry--I'll get What I Got Comin' when I have to buy individual insurance when DH retires...if anyone will sell me a policy, that is. Don't worry, I'll try not to fall down in your path*

=astro, hoping I like the good folks at Dadgumbumrap Hospital in Bangkok <where's the sardonic smile smilie...none of them seem quite right for this!>as I may need to go "bare"
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 01:20 PM   #64
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

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if anyone will sell me a policy, that is. Don't worry, I'll try not to fall down in your path
... or move to MA. You're welcomed here! One for all and all for one ... comrade!
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 02:48 PM   #65
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

I live in a Country with Socialised Medecine,I don't feel like a communist, I just feel that the key word is "Society"

Visit a Cancer Hospital look at the little 4 and 5 year olds, bald from Chemo, then tell me that ALL should not have the same access to Health Care.

Pierre Trudeau called Canada, a kinder, gentler society, not perfect, but no one should be denied access to being cared for.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 02:58 PM   #66
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

I'm all for capitalism, but sometimes the arguments of the "free market" health care proponents make me think if they could monopolize air and sell it back to us, they would (they already got there with water).

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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 03:04 PM   #67
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

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Originally Posted by Laurence
I'm all for capitalism, but sometimes the arguments of the "free market" health care proponents make me think if they could monopolize air and sell it back to us, they would (they already got there with water).

And back in reality, the government does monopolize healthcare under the social system while private companies don't and can't monopolize healthcare -- yet you blame capitalists...

That's what I mean, it's easy to feel good about some things and bad about others, but it often doesn't lead to a very realistic policy...
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 03:07 PM   #68
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

You know, after I hit post, I thought, "eh, I didn't express myself very well there."

So monopolize was a poor choice, but I believe there are a few things a society should not deny some one because they can't afford market price.

And yes, I need look no further than Medicare prescription drug fiasco to see how the govt. can mess things up, too.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 05:50 PM   #69
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

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Originally Posted by lets-retire
The poor who are working at entry level jobs, because they choose not to grow up and become a responsible citizens of the country, are not entitled to the same benefits I am. If they want the same procedures then go to school, grow up, and work your butt off, otherwise shut up and enjoy your poverty. You chose to live that life.
I assume you are trolling me.




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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 05:57 PM   #70
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Nope

I've heard a reasonable range of similar opinions from people.

























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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-07-2006, 08:43 PM   #71
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Replace the words "health care" with "education". Yep, everyone gets to pay more for better education if they want it, but everyone also gets a basic education. Doesnt it seem a little silly to argue that poor or dumb people shouldnt get an education? Yet poor people and sick people shouldnt get health care? At least not as good as what people with money get?

:P
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 01:46 AM   #72
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Martha--I wouldn't think of trolling you. I'm sure you'd beat me up with half your brain. My point is I shouldn't have to pay for the insurance to conver non-essential procedures for people who don't have the will or desire to earn what is needed to provide for themselves. Everyone should receive lifesaving procedures if they want it, nothing more. Similar to what we already have. The people you listed in the other insurance post are exceptions that the government should pay without hesitation.

CFB--Education and medical care are two very different things. A good education can lead to better health care. The education is provided by the governement, but it is up to the parents and the student to put forth the effort to learn the material and force the unwilling student to try to learn the material. If a parent wants te student to receive a better education they must either get them into a better school or make sure the student puts forth an earnest effort. The basic education is just that a basic education, similar to life saving medical care nothing more. No viagra on my dime, unless it's for me.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 01:59 AM   #73
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Replace the words "health care" with "education". Yep, everyone gets to pay more for better education if they want it, but everyone also gets a basic education. Doesnt it seem a little silly to argue that poor or dumb people shouldnt get an education? Yet poor people and sick people shouldnt get health care? At least not as good as what people with money get?

:P
Yeah, exactly, everyone should have a right to go to Harvard. And Harvard should be obligated to provide free money to anyone who can't afford it. And if they can't do that, then nobody should be allowed to go to Harvard, and all private schools should be banned in favor of universal public education.

Tax-funded public schools*, sure -- but as with healthcare or food or anything else, just because a caring society provides the basics to the poor, that doesn't entail that it should communize the whole damn thing. What's wrong with people spending more to get a better service?

*I'm not sure if the meaning of "public school" varies by place, but I mean all levels of education, not just primary/elementary/grade school.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 08:07 AM   #74
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

I spent over 30 years in Health Care at the most Senior level with one of the largest companies in the World, and All people should have access to Health Care, regardless of income, anyone who disagrees is [edited by moderator].

I have been in Hospitals where Babies were dying of dehydration due to the lack of IV Solutions, where people were dying from infected Bed Sores due to lack of staff, where doctors assign a death list, dealing with those first who may ahve a better chance of surviving, watching Parents being told their Baby will die because a certain Drug was not available in that Country.

There is NO EXCUSE for the US not having Universal Health Care, NO, I am wrong, there is an excuse but there is no REASON..

it is Politic NOT money, Money there is plenty of, just decide Boeing or Bayer, Iraq or Indiana, part of the solution or part fo the problem?.

In the 60's you guys marched and changed a Nation, you guys just need to remember why you marched and get out your walking shoes.

It is a Revolutionary Idea, accessible and Equal Health Care, where is Joan Baez and Pete Seeger when you need them??
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 09:06 AM   #75
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Maximillion:

I'm just wondering, not to be argumentative but just curious, if you urgently needed a medical procedure you could obtain more quickly in the US than in Canada, would you come to the US to receive it?* This assumes you could easily afford it and the amount of time saved is very meaningful.* And if you would come to the US to save significant time, would it matter to you if you knew you were bumping a less financially endowed US citizen out of line due to your ability to pay?

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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 10:10 AM   #76
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Well

I don't know about Max - but should the occasion arise - I would be more than happy to hop a plane to Thailand or India for a medical procedure - if I 'knew' I was screwing the American system out of a few bucks.

Probably have my middle digit manicured while I was there.

Not that I get emotional about such things!

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 11:07 AM   #77
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Unclemick 2:

If I could do myself some good, I'd travel to wherever-land for medical care as well.* But where I'm going with my question to Maximillion is whether his devotion to a national health care system is so great he'd stick to it even if he could increase the chances for survival for himself or a loved one by privately buying faster care outside of the system in an urgent situation.

I guess the question would apply to any Canadian.* I only asked Maximillion because of his strong pro-national health care stance and he is probably a person who could easily afford to private pay anytime it was to his or his family's advantage.

It would be easy to be in favor of a system where equal medical benefits are provided for everyone ...............except for those who can private pay and are free to hop across the border to Mayo Clinic for a prompt, high-tech cure.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 12:27 PM   #78
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

I stand with Max. If everyone was required to have a baisc health insurance policy there would be less cost displacement on the folks who are paying the freight.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 12:58 PM   #79
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
If you read through the info, it appears some funds are being put aside for both proactive health care and a big chunk to reduce obesity.*

How can anyone except the obeses person do anything about it unless they are a child? I don't see how the goverment can stop us from eating too much or not exercising, they could make us pay taxes by the pound but as long as carbs are cheaper than meat and veggies people will continue to be overweight. I don't see them forcing weight loss surgery or forced marches and starvation.
Telling the lower middle class they need to buy insurance will be hard. The poor well get welfare of some kind and the rich can afford insurance but finding insurance when you are middle age and moderate income can be cost prohibitive. If you earn 40K and don't have children spending even 6K on insurance would be a major expense, if you are overweight, old, sick or anything else the insurance might be 12K a year if you can find it and have a huge deductable. I tried to buy insurance once and ended up quiting my job and finding one with insurance, I have gone months without insurance between jobs but don't want to do that if I don't have to. So far I haven't been sick with or without insurance.
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...
Old 04-08-2006, 01:33 PM   #80
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Re: Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
If everyone was required to have a baisc health insurance policy there would be less cost displacement on the folks who are paying the freight.
Can't argue with that math!* But, would you vote for a public system providing equal care to all that would be the only care available?* That is, no "buying up" to a deluxe policy or alternate private pay care available, period.
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