Here comes your socialized health care...sort of...

[unclemick]

Well

I don't know about Max - but should the occasion arise - I would be more than happy to hop a plane to Thailand or India for a medical procedure - if I 'knew' I was screwing the American system out of a few bucks.

Probably have my middle digit manicured while I was there.

Not that I get emotional about such things!

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh

 

[youbet]

Unclemick 2:

If I could do myself some good, I'd travel to wherever-land for medical care as well.  But where I'm going with my question to Maximillion is whether his devotion to a national health care system is so great he'd stick to it even if he could increase the chances for survival for himself or a loved one by privately buying faster care outside of the system in an urgent situation.

I guess the question would apply to any Canadian.  I only asked Maximillion because of his strong pro-national health care stance and he is probably a person who could easily afford to private pay anytime it was to his or his family's advantage.

It would be easy to be in favor of a system where equal medical benefits are provided for everyone ...............except for those who can private pay and are free to hop across the border to Mayo Clinic for a prompt, high-tech cure.

 

[Brat]

I stand with Max. If everyone was required to have a baisc health insurance policy there would be less cost displacement on the folks who are paying the freight.

 

[old woman]

If you read through the info, it appears some funds are being put aside for both proactive health care and a big chunk to reduce obesity. 

How can anyone except the obeses person do anything about it unless they are a child? I don't see how the goverment can stop us from eating too much or not exercising, they could make us pay taxes by the pound but as long as carbs are cheaper than meat and veggies people will continue to be overweight. I don't see them forcing weight loss surgery or forced marches and starvation.
Telling the lower middle class they need to buy insurance will be hard. The poor well get welfare of some kind and the rich can afford insurance but finding insurance when you are middle age and moderate income can be cost prohibitive. If you earn 40K and don't have children spending even 6K on insurance would be a major expense, if you are overweight, old, sick or anything else the insurance might be 12K a year if you can find it and have a huge deductable. I tried to buy insurance once and ended up quiting my job and finding one with insurance, I have gone months without insurance between jobs but don't want to do that if I don't have to. So far I haven't been sick with or without insurance.

 

[youbet]

If everyone was required to have a baisc health insurance policy there would be less cost displacement on the folks who are paying the freight.

Can't argue with that math!  But, would you vote for a public system providing equal care to all that would be the only care available?  That is, no "buying up" to a deluxe policy or alternate private pay care available, period.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

CFB--Education and medical care are two very different things. A good education can lead to better health care. The education is provided by the governement, but it is up to the parents and the student to put forth the effort to learn the material and force the unwilling student to try to learn the material. If a parent wants te student to receive a better education they must either get them into a better school or make sure the student puts forth an earnest effort. The basic education is just that a basic education, similar to life saving medical care nothing more. No viagra on my dime, unless it's for me.

I didnt say anything about viagra. I said everyone is entitled to a basic education regardless of their income or social status. People with more income and social status can buy better education if they want to. People should get basic health insurance regardless of their income and social status. A sick person should get to see a doctor. Everybody should buy their own damn viagra.

 

[Brat]

I don't understand why folks should not be able to 'buy up' a health insurance policy.  That position is why people fear basic health insurance, hence, there is no basic health insurance.  Employers offer a wide range of health insurance policies.. they aren't required to choose the same level of coverage as the business down the street. 

People with Medicare buy medigap policies, some people buy long term care insurance rather than depend on Medicaid. 

 

[youbet]

I agree with you Brat.

But, what's the deal in Canada? Can you "buy up" or private pay in Canada if you can afford it and feel some expedited treatment for whatever ails you is how you want to spend your money?

 

[Cool Dood]

Nope. Banned.

(Well, there are exceptions, but they're mostly if you're a politician.)

 

[Maximillion]

I would stay with the Canadian System, I will not die, I might have to wait a couple of months for a colonoscopy, if results not positive, I would get surgery right away.

Life Threatening receives immediate attention, cataract surgery, you will wait, hernias you will wait, but we are not talking years, we are talking Months.

I have been hit with double Pneumonia twice in the last few years, immediate attention, immediate care.

We are not concerned about Health Care, it is a Non Issue, sometimes something will not go as a person expected, but that happens in the US system.

Our problem now is that people compalined it took too long to get a Hip Replacement, now Hospitals are falling over themselves to get Patients.

Our Hospitals are NOT Hotels, they are Hospitals, you may share a room with 4 people, sometimes 1, some times you are alone.

Canadian Surgeons are as good as any, and the expertise of Canadian Nurses is already understood by a lot of Americans.

Sick Children's Hospital, best in the World.

 

[REWahoo]

We are not concerned about Health Care, it is a Non Issue

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=524c3d11-caa5-473a-ad91-e251d140efdf

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060308.WAIT08/TPStory/National

Despite a large increase in tests and surgeries, not to mention the billions poured into the health-care system over the years, patients still face lengthy delays trying to access medical services, according to the most comprehensive report yet on waiting times.

Released yesterday, the Canadian Institute for Health Information study looked at what may be the most complained-about but least understood feature of this country's $140-billion health-care system: waiting lists.

..."There is a wait before patients even get on the waiting list."

 

[LRS]

Arguments against universal basic medical based on gov't subsidised viagra or welfare mothers driving cadillacs are specious. We are talking about the government providing a basic service (like K-grade 12 education, or highway system, or police or firefighters) that benefits society as a whole and pays off for all citizens, not just those receiving the service. Obviously educating all children pays off when the kids become tax paying citizens, as most do. So does providing basic medical care. Our current system of have-nots flooding the emergency rooms and driving up costs for everyone would disappear.

I had to take my daughter to the emergency room after Christmas (she had a fainting spell one evening, we thought she had a seizure, on our doctor's advice we took her to the ER) We waited three hours to see a doctor. In front of us was a cross section of the working poor of our small town. One woman had three kids with her. One had had a cough for weeks, it was getting worse, she was afraid he had pneumonia. She worked full time, no insurance, no way to see a doctor during the day while she worked. I am pretty certain she wouldn't need to be there if she had basic medical insurance (and a job that would let her have a sick day to deal with her kids' health).

I see her case could be distorted to be "taking a kid with a cough to the ER."

 

[unclemick]

My old doc(from Peru) in LA - had his walk in clinic across the parking lot from a certain Hospital ER - which often made the paper cause they claimed they were going broke.

Over the ten years I went for checkups he hired three American docs. I offered a few times to get some engineer IE buddies to give him even more profit with some JR Taylor, MTM(measured time and motion), Deming but he didn't take me serious.

 

[Maximillion]

REWhahoo, I never bother to read Political Propaganda, Health Care is big business, the thought of Socialised Health Care activates a whole bunch of organisations to defend their turf.

No system is 100%, 100% of the time, but on balance to provide too all its' citizens regardless of income or age a quality of Health Care, Canada's works best.

The UK, Australia, New Zealand have a hybrid system, we may move somewhat in that direction.

The US is better if you are Healthy and employed with a company that has coverage, if you are unemployed or have an existing condition, Canada's is better.

I live in a small community, I am within 45 minutes drive of 6 hospitals(10 minutes to the closest one) , I walk to my GP's office, She would see me the same day, if needed.

Major Trauma, Air Ambulance to TO, about 40 minutes away, Trauma Team comes with Bandage 1(The Air Ambulance).

The Shriners have just announced that their latest Children's hospital is to be built in Montreal.

Of one thing I am sure, we all retire without a concern about Health Care, it is not even a concern, it does not have to be part of the planning, money is the major issue.

 

[lets-retire]

CFB--At least we ahve common ground.....................everyone should buy their own viagra.

I never said the poor should not have any access to medical care. Only that their access should be limited to life saving procedures. The more "free" services provided by the government the less attractive it is to work. I work in an area where there is a large number of sec 8 apartments. It's amazing how many people are home during the day. When they are asked if they work, their typical response is no I have kids. They like to leave out that the kids are in school during the day. :

 

[Maximillion]

Viagra was being developed at Pfizer's U.K Research Lab as a treatment for Congestive Heart Failure, until the side affects were noted.

I CHALLENGE all who take the ultimate Right Wing attitude to Health Care to volunteer at a Children's Hospital for one week, if you do not come out with a whole new sensitivity, don't worry about Angioplasty, you don't have a Heart.

We can all use examples, but a Society is judged by how it cares for its' most vulnerable.

 

[youbet]

Maximillion:

What happens in Canada regarding medical services for non-citizens?  For example, one of our big controversies down here is that illegal immigrants walk into hospital emergency rooms, etc., and are guaranteed basic services.  What would happen in Canada if a non-citizen with no money walked into a hospital needing medical help?  I'm assuming they would get the needed help, but just asking to confirm.

Also, does Canada provide charitable services for folks from other parts of the world who need help such as happens down here with St Jude's or the Shriner's hosptals?

What do Canadians who spend winters in the southern USA do for medical coverage?

Sorry for all the questions, but you seem to be a good source of information.

 

[youbet]

The UK, Australia, New Zealand have a hybrid system, we may move somewhat in that direction.

Given your very positive commentary on the current Canadian system, why would it move towards being a hybrid system like UK, Australia or New Zealand?  Wouldn't you just stick with a winner? 

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

CFB--At least we ahve common ground.....................everyone should buy their own viagra.

I never said the poor should not have any access to medical care. Only that their access should be limited to life saving procedures.

I'd just as soon see that we spend a few hundred bucks avoiding the need for life saving procedures. But then I've looked at the actual data involved pretty closely. Life saving procedures are pretty expensive. Proactive health care isnt.

 

[Cool Dood]

Your new avatar is going to give me some kind of psychosis or a digestive thing... do you have a proactive remedy for that?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Is that better?

 

[Cool Dood]

 

[Maximillion]

The Hybrid System is being asked for by some vocal groups who want reduced wait times,a nd by Surgeons who want more operating time.

Many, many people are brought in from overseas and Surgeries performed that are not available elsewhere.

The Herbie fund is one such fund at Sick Kids specifically to pay for costs not covered by volunteers.

My 87 year old Dad winters in Florida, Canadian Insurance will pay a certain amount, but He/We, always take supplementary Insurance.

He pays $4,000 for 6 months.

Non Canadians who have No Travel Insurance are charged, but Canadian Costs are MUCH LOWER than the US.

Weakness to our system, guy just charged after his wife gave Birth to Twins, but according to the records, 3 months before that his wife had a Hysterectomy?

Digging deeper, this Guy, with the collusion of his family Doctor, was bringing in all his relatives from a Caribbean Island for free Health Care.

New Cards require an updated picture, old ones, just a piece of plastic with your name on that you showed(mine is over 20 years old).

Canada does not have the law suits that plague the US System, if a relative dies, it is in the thousands not millions.

 

[youbet]

Non Canadians who have No Travel Insurance are charged, but Canadian Costs are MUCH LOWER than the US.

But what about indigent non-Canadians, such as illegals and their children?  Do they receive necessary care?

Canada does not have the law suits that plague the US System, if a relative dies, it is in the thousands not millions.

In my opinion, that's a good thing.  It seems like juries here got a tad aggresive in awarding huge compensatory amounts.  Of course, not everyone agrees with that.

 

[Maximillion]

Absolutly,and Education.

Paper always has some Domestic Worker who is here illegally, is being deported, has a couple of babies born here(never mention of a Father), they are never Deported.

Amnesty has been proposed but is fought by many Immigrants who have Friends and Relatives that are trying to emigrate Legally and are faced with long waits.

I was surprised when I asked a couple of Russian Kids working as waiters in Florida how long it took for their papers, in most cases less than 12 weeks.

A Canadian would have a wait of at least 4 years to get into the U.S ??