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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-04-2007, 06:17 PM   #21
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Re: Home Security Systems

We have a 10 year old wired system installed by a local quality security company. Then they were bought out. Response call center in another state (they are clueless about local geography), billing problems, you name it. General PITA. Other security companies won't work with another installer's system.

Today we would install a wireless system that called us first as we set it when we are away.

Most burglars avoid homes with a horn that goes off upon intrusion. Secure locks on doors and windows that are USED help a lot. The one time someone got into our home they entered through an unlocked sliding door at the back. The horn went off, police came out but couldn't find anything amiss. The perp had hidden in a garage storage area behind boxes. Once the cops left he opened the garage door and fled. Now we check all the doors, even the ones we think are locked. We lock the door to the garage storage area and turn off the power to the garage doors.

One homeowner in the region managed to kill an intruder, but I think most thieves prefer to work empty homes. If they find a gun in the home they will steal it and sell to a bad guy.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-04-2007, 11:17 PM   #22
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Re: Home Security Systems

We have never had an alarm system at our house. But, I volunteer at my local police department and the majority of alarm providers are ADT & Brinks.

It's costly around here to have an alarm. The registration fee is $50 per year, and the fees start at $50 and go up to $100 for each false alarm.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 02:41 AM   #23
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Re: Home Security Systems

Used Brinks for 3 years. FREE install. $32 a month (including $5 monthly equip insurance which I've never used).
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 06:11 AM   #24
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Re: Home Security Systems

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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 07:20 AM   #25
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Re: Home Security Systems

After 25 years in a fish camp over water outside the levee system - I try not to own anything I'm not willing to lose(you can't take it with you).

Now in the midwest - I often don't lock my door.

Heh heh heh heh - I would be pissed if someone sole my dog(the Golden Retriever). The eight month Pug has entered a 'chewing phase' - HE could get stolen(please!).
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 12:02 PM   #26
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Re: Home Security Systems

As I often say, this is a case where you don't need to outrun the bear, just the other guy you're with. A thief will rob the house that looks easiest.

Put in a few security lights. Put a security door on the side door of the garage or any other easy to break-in place. I put in a couple of those little stick-on contact 'screamers' on windows that we never open that might look like a nice spot to break in and made sure they were really easy to see from outside. I bought an ADT sign and 10 window stickers for $20 on ebay. Dogs and a nice big "beware of dog!" sign tacked onto the side fence gate that I pluralized with a black marker.

I'm considering a couple of those small battery operated "fake" security cameras you can buy on Amazon to tuck up under the eaves.

Another fun option is the motion activated water sprayer they sell on amazon. Hook it up to a hose, stick a battery in it, set one in the front yard and the back yard and leave them on at night or while you're away. No stray animals will come into the yard and if some prospective thief comes by, you'll know which one he is. The wet one.

Unless you're selling drugs or you're "known" to have lots of interesting stuff like guns, cash or beaver cheese lying around the house, a few inexpensive deterrents will probably do ya.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 12:17 PM   #27
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Re: Home Security Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Guapo
Another fun option is the motion activated water sprayer they sell on amazon. Hook it up to a hose, stick a battery in it, set one in the front yard and the back yard and leave them on at night or while you're away. No stray animals will come into the yard and if some prospective thief comes by, you'll know which one he is. The wet one.
Effective for deer too!
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 12:27 PM   #28
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Re: Home Security Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
Effective for deer too!
We used to have an outdoor motion detector coupled with an indoor chime. Sort of an automatic doorbell. I disconnected it after several prankster deer rang our doorbell at around 3am....
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 12:32 PM   #29
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Re: Home Security Systems

We've never bothered, since we have always lived in a modest house in a modest area and had dogs. At our current house, we have nothing particularly worth stealing. We live in a cul-de-sac where you can watch everyone's head turn to look at an unfamiliar car go by, and my neighbors know who our friends and family are (or at least their cars). The local fire captain lives across the street and we used to have the town's head detective living down the block. We take some modest precautons, but I'm not exactly worried.

Dad, who is a joolry dealer, did get robbed several years back. But since my parents have always had several large dogs (includng a pit mix at the time) and I've little doubt that Dad has a large, unlicensed handgun floating around the house, it is probably lucky that the theives didn't try the house. They merely pried the trunk of his car open and walked away with a couple of expensive briefcases. He is real diligent about putting stuff in the safe at the end of the day now.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 03:48 PM   #30
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Re: Home Security Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferco
Opine please
It depends on why you want an alarm system. If you're looking for protection against burglars it's probably a waste of money. The sign "Protected by ABC Alarm" in the front yard and the stickers on the window will deter a lot of burglars. But there are some who just don't care. They know that the number of false activations are extremely high (97+%) and that responding to alarm companies calls is a very low priority for most police agencies. If you live in Beverly Hills you will get a good response, if you live in someplace with little crime and bored cops you will get a good response, but if you live just about anywhere else they'll get there when they have the time. Those commercials they show with some ultra-professional alarm guy summoning 5 millions cops to your house in thirty seconds are pure garbage.

Old burglary detective tricks: Put a sign on the front and back door "Night Shift Worker/Day Sleeper - Please Do Not Ring Door Bell". For an added touch, put a "Proud Member of the NRA" decal somewhere nearby. Buy alarm company decals/stickers/signs and place them on the windows and doors.

If you really are interested in making your house burglar resistant (ain't no such thing as burglar proofing), call your police/sheriff and ask them if they have crime prevention officers who will come out and inspect your house. 90% of the houses in this country have crappy door frames, locks and windows that might as well not even be there as far as the average thief is concerned. Many states require insurance companies to give discounts to homeowners who have had their house pass inspections (you will almost certainly have to spend a few bucks to make your home more resistant).

If you're worried about intruders coming in while you are at home, a better idea is to have resistant doors and windows and a gun that you know how to use. Even if you call the police and they make the response a high priority, it will take time to get to your house, wait for backup, and make a sound tactical approach. Figure 5 minutes before somebody is there and in a position to help you. A lot can happen in 5 minutes. Every cop, if answering honestly, will tell you that they will come and do their best to help in such situations, but until they get there - you are responsible for your own safety.

Heat, smoke and CD detectors can be bought quite cheaply and are easy to install. If you're worried about fire and smoke damage when you're away from home, you have to again factor in the response time. I think the very best any FD does is 3 minutes from time of call to time when the first piece of equipment rolls up to your house. That's in urban areas - rural responses are no doubt somewhat longer. Even then they have to make a plan, prepare the equipment and move into action. Again, figure at least five minutes before water starts coming out of the house and a lot can happen in that short of a time. A neighbor had a defective VCR catch some drapes on fire - they were home and immediately noticed it and called the FD. The pumper was a few block away (coming back from a training exercise already manned and rolling) when it got the call - they were on scene and spraying water in less than 3 minutes. The fire was contained to one room, but the smoke permeated the house. $95,000 damage and they were out of the house for nearly nine months while it was restored. If I was obsessed with worry about fire, I would retrofit sprinklers or just have really good insurance.

I have an alarm system because the house came pre-wired for free and I had a friend who owns an alarm company to get the components cheaply and help install it. Even so, when it got zapped by lightning a few years ago, I just yanked the power line and have never bothered with it since. If I ever sell the house I may look into fixing it just to eliminate a potential deal killer.

What I do depend on are solid doors set in frames that are kick resistant with high quality locks, smoke and CD detectors (hard-wired with battery backups), fire extinguishers, a dog and a gun. There are some other things I do, but they are beyond the scope of this thread.

Done opining - hope it helps you.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 04:14 PM   #31
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Re: Home Security Systems

I dunno about putting up cameras. Then people might really think you have something to steal.

In a big house (5000sq ft) where I know I wouldnt hear a window break in the basement, its important for me and my family to feel safe to have an alarm system. I live in a nice neighborhood in the midwest, but it seems that those are the types of neighborhoods burglars would target.

I also have 2 glocks that I know how to use. Incase I have to come out double fistin'.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-05-2007, 04:24 PM   #32
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Re: Home Security Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by CybrMike
I also have 2 glocks that I know how to use. Incase I have to come out double fistin'.
I have two as well, but I've never tried to shoot both at once, although it looks really cool in the movies. No, I think of the baby as my "everyday" gun and the other as my formal "dress-up" gun.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-06-2007, 07:12 AM   #33
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Re: Home Security Systems

To piggy back on the gun issue. I you think you will not be able to pull the trigger on another person, don't have a loaded gun. In those situations I've suggested buying a12 GA pump, but NO rounds. Every bad guy knows what a 12 GA sounds like when it's pump is worked, but most bad guys don't carry bullets around with them. The sound will likely be enough to scare the heck out of them.

Of course there will always be people who say this and some of the other advice won't work. They are correct nothing works 100% all of the time, but when you consider most burglaries are performed by some kids just breaking in for some spending money a lot of the simple ideas suggested work most of the time.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-06-2007, 07:27 AM   #34
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Re: Home Security Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferco
We are looking at a home security system. ADT has quoted us $,30-40/month, 3 year contract.Installation approx $230. They also want $5/mth extra for carbon monoxide surveillance. Anyone have any experience with the most economical way to go. Also, I we want a company that will be there if and when we need it, so reliability and reputation are important.
We've used ADT over the past 10 years at other homes and they've served us well.
Opine please
I had a security monitoring service for the 1st year I owned the house. I didn't think it worthwhile. But I kept the sign on the front lawn after I canceled the service. I think that is just as effective as paid service.

The fees they want to charge you sound very high. I was paying $16/mo with ADT - no carbon monoxide monitoring - you can buy a detector for that for much less than $5 for month.

If you go with a service - shop around and don't sign a contract if you don't have to.
Criminals usually go after what looks like the easiest target.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-06-2007, 11:00 AM   #35
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Re: Home Security Systems

I've been looking around at different ssystems/brands for a while, and reading reviews/gripes. One day at w*rk (local municipality) I decided to call the police chief (who I know personally) and ask for his input/opinion on the different systems and suppliers.

After talking for a while he gave me info on the company that the city uses for ALL of it's alarms. They use wireless/radio technology (no phone lines) that links DIRECTLY to the cop shop telecommunications center....NO middle man....so response time is immediate. He said that they had had issues with the middle-man's response time....as in too long of delay between the alarm going off and the middle-man contacting the PD/Fire....sometimes up to 20 minutes. That means the burgular could be in the next county by then, or that your house would basically now consist of a foundation and pile of burnt rubble.

With the direct contact system there are no delays do to middle-man relays....as in: my alarm dials alarm co...alarm co dials local PD/Fire (hopefully quickly)....local PD/Fire respond.

This system: my alarm directly contacts PD/Fire...PD/Fire respond.

Off hand I don't recall exact pricing, but I do recall that it is equal or less than ADT or Brinks.

So, you may want to check with your local constabulary, and ask their opinion.

I'll be getting this system SOON to replace my old "home-brew" system.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-06-2007, 02:49 PM   #36
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Re: Home Security Systems

Spouse and I had an interesting discussion about this thread.

Our personal property is essentially fully-depreciated crap and we don't have an alarm system or anything more sophisticated than deadbolts. To all outward appearances the neighbors probably think that we're selling our blood products to put food on the table. We live in a neighborhood that presents too many risks to a quick getaway and leaves strange cars too easily remembered.

But if someone did break into our house for its valuables, they'd probably leave a $20 bill and some canned goods on our kitchen counter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
To piggy back on the gun issue. I you think you will not be able to pull the trigger on another person, don't have a loaded gun.
I'm worried that I wouldn't kill them with the first shot, necessitating a messy explanation of why I felt obligated to keep shooting.. and reload... and if the burglar survives, then we'd have to deal with the inevitable lawsuits.

Every criminal, no matter how deserving of death, has a family. I don't think I'd want to be sacrificing one of their family just in case there was a risk of harming mine. Luckily I don't keep a firearm around the house to test the strength of my convictions.

I've wondered if it's necessary to teach our kid how to use a firearm and establish proficiency at a shooting range. But the expense & hassle outweigh the putative benefits, and I'd rather teach her how to avoid a nasty situation in the first place. Martial arts seems to be an acceptable compromise, and if she someday feels that she needs to shoot ordnance then she's welcome to get her training from the military.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-06-2007, 06:25 PM   #37
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Re: Home Security Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
The local fire captain lives across the street and we used to have the town's head detective living down the block. We take some modest precautons, but I'm not exactly worried.
I thought well of having a CHP officer and several sheriffs deputies living around the corner from me, until the CHP got robbed (all his guns, body armor, etc gone) and one of the sheriffs tool boxes was stolen out of his pickup.

By the way, those guys got caught really, really fast.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-06-2007, 06:37 PM   #38
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Re: Home Security Systems

Redneck Home Security

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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-07-2007, 07:47 PM   #39
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Re: Home Security Systems

We renovated our house before we moved in, and at the 11-1/2 th hour, we got persuaded to install a security system. It just wasn't worth the hassle to us and we finally stopped the monitoring after about a year.

The thing actually made us feel less secure, rather than more. We have 4 kids in the house, a large dog, three cats. We felt that the threat of false alarms was too high. We were afraid to set the system.

I know the threat of crime is real, but it's notoriously hard for people to accurately assess the risk of rare-but-serious events. And it's the first principle of advertising to play up our fears and insecurities to get us to buy something.
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Re: Home Security Systems
Old 01-08-2007, 09:57 AM   #40
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Re: Home Security Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
I've wondered if it's necessary to teach our kid how to use a firearm and establish proficiency at a shooting range. But the expense & hassle outweigh the putative benefits, and I'd rather teach her how to avoid a nasty situation in the first place. Martial arts seems to be an acceptable compromise, and if she someday feels that she needs to shoot ordnance then she's welcome to get her training from the military.
I agree with you - avoidance is always the best solution. Using a firearm is what I have been trained to do legally and practically, but it is also something I have been trained to use as the very last resort. Most people, even cops who are put into dangerous situations every day, seldom need a firearm. But when they do, they really need one. The stress placed on avoidance in TKD was a big selling point when we chose it as our kids' martial art. The philosophy is consistent with what I have always taught my family - so much so that they know that when we go out somewhere the first thing we check out on the way in is where all the exits are. My kids are pretty good at spotting where I want to sit when we go out to eat - the table in the corner near the exit - and my chair is the one in the corner. Why? Because it's always better to see trouble coming so you can run away before it gets to you.

Because the presence of loaded firearms is just a fact of life for me, and because even the most careful human being can screw up and forget to unload a gun or lock it away, I decided the best choice was to teach everyone how to handle firearms safely. My goal was to remove any fascination with firearms so I never had to worry about anyone wanting to play with a gun. It was a long process, starting with a BB gun when they were young and eventually working up to hunting trips, but it has worked. The kids are extremely safe around firearms - more so than a lot of adults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Every criminal, no matter how deserving of death, has a family. I don't think I'd want to be sacrificing one of their family just in case there was a risk of harming mine. Luckily I don't keep a firearm around the house to test the strength of my convictions.
I have zero criticism of your decision and applaud the fact that you addressed the issue. Many people think that the mere presence of a firearm somehow gives them a magical aura that will protect them. Too many buy a gun and put it in the nightstand without ever learning how to shoot it, some will at least learn how to shoot, but many of them never confront the question you already answered for yourself. The question of mental preparedness to use a firearm should always be addressed before the moment of need. Or, as they taught in the police academy "if you point that pistol at someone and you're not 100% prepared to use it - you need to carry a chocolate gun, because there are people out there on the street who will make you eat it."

Alarms, good doors/window/locks, big dogs and guns are all tools that can be used to protect you and your home. But they all present tradeoffs that have to be considered. Alarms costs money but merely deter most burglars, good barriers to entry merely delay the determined intruder, dogs have to be fed and cared for, and the mind attached to the trigger finger has to be trained and ready to pull the trigger under the right circumstances. They all play a role in self defense, but not all are right for everyone. I use them all because I consider security as something that occurs in layers, and I try to place as many barriers between me and danger as I can.

Important note: I live in a state where the 2nd Amendment is alive and well. Citizens have the right to carry weapons (after training and licensing) and all but convicted felons may own firearms. The standard applied to all uses of deadly force is generally the "reasonable person" standard, which means would any reasonable person, when placed in the same situation, have believed that deadly force was necessary in order to prevent death or serious bodily injury. Not all jurisdictions are the same and before you head off to the gun store you need to thoroughly investigate your rights and responsibilities as a gun owner. And, most importantly, before ever finding yourself in a situation where you might use deadly force to protect yourself, you need to know your legal rights and responsibilities, and you need to have trained and prepared yourself for that moment. Investigating the sound of breaking glass at 0300 is not the time to be in doubt about anything.


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